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knunut · 10-07-2014, 01:23 PM

Has anyone used a 12VDC Harbor Freight comp. If so which model? Have thought of mounting one where 2nd battery mount is. Could use for ties and winterize. Would not need to carry the larger 120v model.

Protagonist · 10-07-2014, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PharmGeek

Protagonist...I guess if there were ever water damage to that valve, the flushers would still work? but backflow prevention wouldnt? would be hard to notice? Mine was not flushed last year and may or may not have seen damage with multiple exposures of temps in the low teens here in Alabama believe it or not.

I think you have it right. A failed check valve could allow water to pass in both directions, so the tank flusher would still work even if the check valve froze.

polarlyse · 10-07-2014, 01:37 PM

I hadn't thought about opening the valve during the evacuation of the tank flush. The tank vents to the outside anyhow so there's no pressure build up. So, to answer your question - I do not and don't see the need. I simply try to get a good end of season flush before I bring it home. I store my AS at my son's house and do not have a dump station there. Then winterize when I get a chance.

Wingeezer · 10-07-2014, 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Protagonist

If you've used the municipal water hookup, I'd still blow the lines, so that you can clear the water from the check valve in the water intake, if nothing else. Pumping antifreeze through the lines doesn't help with that.

This is an interesting point and it certainly sounds worth blowing the lines as well as using plumbing antifreeze to ensure the system is thoroughly protected - I will probably do that in future years!

But having said that, I have only used antifreeze for each of the six years we have owned our trailer, and never even thought about blowing the lines to protect the check valve!

Despite this oversight I have never had any problem with the check valve in Spring time.

It certainly gets cold enough up here north of the border, so that makes me wonder why I have not had a problem.

Maybe I have just been lucky somehow - or maybe the check valve is designed in such a way that there insufficient "dead space" in the valve design to trap water that can then freeze and cause a problem?

Seems it would make good sense to design the check valve that way and it certainly should be possible! I have never examined the valve.

Anyone know?

Brian.

A W Warn · 10-07-2014, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Protagonist

If you've used the municipal water hookup, I'd still blow the lines, so that you can clear the water from the check valve in the water intake, if nothing else. Pumping antifreeze through the lines doesn't help with that.

What you say makes sense.
My low point drain valve is a couple inches below my water inlet pipe's high point, and about 4-5' away. I can open the valve, where the outlet is 8" lower, and watch the water siphon out. This siphoning action pulls the air through the inlet then the pressure regulator that is inline. In my trailer I can literally see the water/bubbles inside the pipes through the translucent pipe walls, flowing until there is only the air that has been pulled in. I have never blown out this line. One other thing that might have saved my bacon is that my parking spot is graded so that my inlet pipes actually drains toward my low point drain naturally. My trailer sat in 0 degree temperatures with no heat on during winter without issue. My neglected battery did freeze though.

(now that I've jinxed myself by saying this you know my pipes, now full of antifreeze, will freeze and break this winter, maybe I'll go dig out the compressor and give it a blow)

HowieE · 10-07-2014, 03:11 PM

If you blow out the black tank flush line you darn well better have the dump valve open or you mat be buying a new tank.

having never seen any reason to use the black tank flush line I have never addressed it. That line is for those that never took plumbing 101 and I can't paraphrase the course here without getting in trouble.

TinTin · 10-07-2014, 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HowieE

If you blow out the black tank flush line you darn well better have the dump valve open or you mat be buying a new tank.

Not sure why you say this? A few millilitres of water purged from the lines shouldn't hurt anything (most have a little antifreeze already in the tank); nor should 30 psi air.

HowieE · 10-07-2014, 03:23 PM

That is a plastic tank and not designed to be pressurized. If over pressurized by an amateur the tank may fail before the toilet leaves the floor and hit the ceiling.

TinTin · 10-07-2014, 03:32 PM

30 psi shouldn't cause anything to hit the fan!!!

SSquared · 10-07-2014, 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PharmGeek

oh crap...I had not thought about the black tank sprayer or the city water check valve both requiring compressed air....

I thought with my antifreeze through water pump to all places + p traps + a bit in black tank + a bit in grey tank I was in the clear....

I think that black hose that came with the trailer may be a little stupid 4-5 foot extension for the propane access port on the trailer? I could be wrong though....

I have a 2013 25FB Flying Cloud, with a blank tank flusher. The flusher brand is "No-Fuss Flush", model 336. I called the company and asked them about winterizing. They said the flusher did not need to be winterized. I did nothing to winterize it last year, and no leaks so far.

Some friends of mine bought a new Coleman SOB this year. It also has a blank tank flusher, but of a different brand (I don't remember the name). That flusher's instruction manual insists that you pump pink stuff through it for winter storage (they recommend you acquire and use a portable electric pump).

Last year and this year, I blew out the pipes with an air compressor (1 HP, 10 gallon tank), and then ran pink stuff through....belt and suspenders.

A W Warn · 10-07-2014, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HowieE

That is a plastic tank and not designed to be pressurized. If over pressurized by an amateur the tank may fail before the toilet leaves the floor and hit the ceiling.

It's impossible to pressurize the black by blowing air into the black tank flush system with the dump valve closed, since it vented to the outside through the roof vent.

Protagonist · 10-07-2014, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SSquared

I have a 2013 25FB Flying Cloud, with a blank tank flusher. The flusher brand is "No-Fuss Flush", model 336. I called the company and asked them about winterizing. They said the flusher did not need to be winterized. I did nothing to winterize it last year, and no leaks so far.

The issue is not the flusher itself, but rather the line leading to the flusher, which the flusher manufacturer doesn't necessarily even sell, let alone provide a warranty for.

HowieE · 10-07-2014, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A W Warn

It's impossible to pressurize the black by blowing air into the black tank flush system with the dump valve closed, since it vented to the outside through the roof vent.

You are correct if the vent stack is open. But Eldridge's law says Murphy was an optimism. Be safe things have been known to hit the fan.

blkmagikca · 10-08-2014, 07:55 AM

Speaking as a Canadian where temperatures drop to sub-freezing, here is what I did: my protocol takes a bit longer for the first year, but thereafter can be done in less than 30 minutes. I have done this with all my trailers/motorhome since 1981 without incurring any frost damage. I use plumbing (potable) antifreeze rated to -50 degrees.

First get a 3-way valve (see Camco 36543-X RV Pump Converter Winterizing Kit: Amazon.ca: Automotive ) and install it at the water pump's intake side. As well, make sure you have a hot water tank bypass system; if not, install one (see: http://www.amazon.ca/Camco-35983-Qui...2PKK40VHPAHZCV ). - That is the initial setup.

Then:

1) engage the hot water by-pass valves; release the pressure valve at the top of the hot water tank and open the drain at the bottom of the hot water tank. You can take the opportunity to get a drain cap that includes a small valve for subsequent years.

2) Open the valve to empty the fresh water tank.

3) Open a single faucet and, using any compressor, blow air into the street water intake. You only need to clear the water from the street intake to the water pump. Remove any in-line water filters. If you have an accumulator tank, that also needs to be removed, the connection capped and the tank drained and put aside until spring.

4) Switch over the new 3-way valve at the pump and connect the clear hose to it (make sure it is snug). Put the open end of the clear hose into a jug of plumbing (potable) antifreeze and then switch on the water pump.

5) Making sure that you don't run out of antifreeze, open one faucet at a time and let the water run out until what pours out is the antifreeze (usually pink in color). Repeat this for all faucets, hot and cold, one at a time, including shower and exterior shower. Flush the toilet until the pink antifreeze comes out. Pour some antifreeze into each drain (sink, shower) to ensure that it replaces water in the P-trap.

At this point, you have replaced all the water throughout the system with potable antifreeze - your plumbing is now protected against freezing.

In the spring, flush the antifreeze out with water; reconnect the accumulator tank and in-line water filters. Make sure the 3-way valve lets street water in, the by-pass valve is switched over for the hot water tank, and both the pressure relief valve and drain on the hot water tank is closed. Connect to street water and run each faucet/valve one at a time until what flows is clear water.

In a 19-foot SOB, I could winterize with 1 gallon of anti-freeze; with my AS LY motorhome, I bought a 5-gallon jug of antifreeze (more pipes to protect). For the past 7 years, I decided on a different protocol - I head down to south-western Arizona in November and return back to Canada in April.

Rich W · 10-08-2014, 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blkmagikca

3) Open a single faucet and, using any compressor, blow air into the street water intake. You only need to clear the water from the street intake to the water pump.

I am unable to get any water or air to flow through the pipe after connecting the compressor. The water drained from the low point valves OK, but nothing is coming through the municipal water connection. I've tried opening different faucets, but I can't even hear any air coming through. We use the municipal connection only once, about mid summer, but I think I should hear at least the air coming through. What am I not doing right?

Protagonist · 10-08-2014, 10:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by richw46

I am unable to get any water or air to flow through the pipe after connecting the compressor. The water drained from the low point valves OK, but nothing is coming through the municipal water connection. I've tried opening different faucets, but I can't even hear any air coming through. We use the municipal connection only once, about mid summer, but I think I should hear at least the air coming through. What am I not doing right?

Did you close the low point drains before adding compressed air?

TinTin · 10-09-2014, 06:47 AM

As Protag mentions, make sure the low point drains under the freshwater tank are closed. You should also have two water system shutoffs which allow water to drain to the low points when in the open position. They should be in the closed position for normal use, (and when you pressurize and purge).

On my 23 footer they are located under the pantry.

Rich W · 10-09-2014, 07:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Protagonist

Did you close the low point drains before adding compressed air?

Yes, but I think the problem is the water heater. I opened the bypass valve but didn't close the feed lines. I opened up the water heater drain and it was full of air. I'll start up my compressor and try again when the neighbors are awake.

HowieE · 10-09-2014, 07:44 AM

First off close the hot water bypass valve and drain the heater. Close any drain valve you may have opened, fresh water tank and low point drains.When purging the system with air there is no reason to have to open the low point drains. They are hard to get to and don't effective do anything to begin with.

Now with a schrader air to city water adapter connected to the city inlet have someone open a faucet closest to the city connection. While that valve is open apply a short burst of air, 2 or 3 seconds. Water should flow from the valve. Repeat short burst till just droplets come from the valve and close valve. Do the same with the hot valve on that faucet. Move to another faucet and repeat. Don't forget the toilet, toilet spray, and any outside faucet.

When the system is purged of all but the last drop pump in the anti freeze while opening the faucets one by one starting with the one closest to the pump. Once anti freeze appears at each faucet close the valve and move on.

Add 8 oz. of windshield antifreeze or pink stuff to each trap and the toilet.

The picture is of a homemade adapter but they are available premade.

Yes there will be a small amount of water in the tanks but not enough to cause a problem.

Rich W · 10-09-2014, 08:53 AM

The first time winterizer figured it out. I opened the hot water cross-over but didn't close the inlet to the tank. Pressure had built up inside the tank. Second mistake was putting air into the black tank sprayer instead of the city water inlet. (D'oh!) Now THAT was a Homer Simpson

. So that's good and clear now and I can clear the water lines.