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Old 12-30-2015, 08:48 PM   #43
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floor jacks and air wrenches

When I purchased my Michelins from Discount Tire they assured me they would not to jack the trailer up by the axles and to would use a torque wrench at 95# to reinstall the wheels. I walked out to the bay where my trailer was being jacked up under the axle at all 4 wheels with floor jacks and grabbed the manager who had the jacks moved to the frame. I then waited and stopped them when they started to use an air impact wrench to put the lug nuts back on.

Whenever possible, I now watch anyone working on my trailer or do it myself.
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Old 12-30-2015, 09:17 PM   #44
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I have never in my life seen such a bunch of nervous nellies as there are on this site in my whole life.
I am not a nervous nellie. I am an engineer. So if my owner's manual or repair manual calls for a specific torque on any nut or bolt, not just lugnuts, I'm inclined to apply— and measure— that torque, not just guess at it. But that's just me.

I for one wasn't browbeating you. Didn't respond to a single one of your posts in this thread until now, in fact, so none of my comments was directed at you.

If you want to put your tires on without checking the torque, that's up to you. I genuinely don't care one way or the other as long as you're not working on my vehicles. But I'll use a torque wrench when the manual calls for a specific torque, every time, just like I have for the past 31 years, so I don't repeat my dad's mistake and send another driver to the hospital.
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Old 12-30-2015, 10:35 PM   #45
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Yea, on reflection, you received an undue portion of my ire, as a result of a "last straw" thing....

My apologies for my shortness. But I will point out that you quoted one of the posts that I have issue with, and it is worth pointing out that I have never lost a lug nut even though I don't use a torque wrench.


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Old 12-31-2015, 06:24 AM   #46
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Quote:
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When I purchased my Michelins from Discount Tire they assured me they would not to jack the trailer up by the axles and to would use a torque wrench at 95# to reinstall the wheels. I walked out to the bay where my trailer was being jacked up under the axle at all 4 wheels with floor jacks and grabbed the manager who had the jacks moved to the frame. I then waited and stopped them when they started to use an air impact wrench to put the lug nuts back on.

Whenever possible, I now watch anyone working on my trailer or do it myself.

Nothing wrong with 'air power'.....used it for years.


Or floor jacks....



The IQ of the user must match that of the tool.

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Old 12-31-2015, 07:28 AM   #47
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Nothing wrong with 'air power'.....used it for years.


Or floor jacks....



The IQ of the user must match that of the tool.

Bob
Yup, a guy's got to have well practiced skills, and if he knows his tools intimately, he knows what torque he's at, by feel. That said...engine and trans rebuilding require precision. ...chassis work...not so much.
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Old 12-31-2015, 02:01 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by J. Morgan View Post
Yea, on reflection, you received an undue portion of my ire, as a result of a "last straw" thing....

My apologies for my shortness. But I will point out that you quoted one of the posts that I have issue with, and it is worth pointing out that I have never lost a lug nut even though I don't use a torque wrench.


Brevi tempore!

In many situations, the proper torque is equal to as tight as you can get it anyway.
If you were ever to check your lug nuts with a torque wrench after you installed them with a lug wrench, you might find they are at the proper torque spec.
Just like when tuning an engine I turn the distributor until it sounds right to me. Then put the timing light on it. It's already where it needs to be.
Instinct. Feel.


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Old 12-31-2015, 02:41 PM   #49
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To the greatest extent, pulling a lug nut down tight short of pulling or stripping the threads is not going to be too tight to hurt anything. (Wheel studs are very, very strong.

Most Wheels that come lose on the road are due to improperly seated or piloted wheels. This is true for most broken wheel studs as well.

The odds of me leaving a wheel too lose is going to be about zero, irregardless if I use a torque wrench or not.


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Old 12-31-2015, 05:36 PM   #50
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Loose...


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Old 12-31-2015, 06:27 PM   #51
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I will even go so far as to say...with an impact gun....if one knows it well, one can get the proper torque. My old gun was bought in 1982. I was a student in Automotive technology, then a professional technician, before moving on to more school and factory rep'ing. I got to know that gun so well I could zip the nut down to just snug, give it two very short burps and be at the right torque for lugs. Did it that way for several decades...but alas, my trusty gun died just a week ago. I have a bright shiny new one, but I just don't "know" her like the old girl.

Back to a socket and breaker for the foreseeable future.
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Old 12-31-2015, 06:48 PM   #52
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I have beam style wrenches, click wrenches, and also a 3/8" and 1/2" drive digital torque wrench adapters that are positioned between the wrench drive and the socket.

One day for fun, I tried a comparative test by taking each wrench one at a time, clamping its drive end in a vise, then applying a "Known" torque to each by means of a digital spring balance type scale at a known distance along the wrench handle. (of course who knows how accurate the digital spring balance is - but at least it served as a common reference point!

I did this at several torque levels and recorded/graphed all the readings and was pleasantly surprised how closely they all matched the calculated input torque - the whole group was within a few ft-pounds. I was expecting a much wider spread.

The cheapie beam wrenches I own were as good as any, and frankly I prefer them due to their simplicity - not a lot to go wrong with them, no springs to take a set if you forget to unwind them, and "No batteries required!"

I do also have a torque stick (looks like a simple socket wrench extension bar and can only be used with an impact wrench for anyone not familiar. they are calibrated for just one specific torque level and often bought in colour coded sets for a variety of torque values.)

I often wondered about its accuracy, but after using it one day on our trailer after repacking wheel bearings, I cross checked it with a click wrench and it seemed quite accurate and gave me more confidence in the breed.

Someone earlier in the thread commented negatively about torque sticks, and I'd be interested to know more - are they generally disparaged?

I might be leery to use them on assembling an engine (Though I can't really say why!) but it seems to me they should be fine for lug nuts. Is there evidence to the contrary?



One thing that can be probably more significant than the accuracy of a given style or expense of torque wrench, is whether or not the specified torque is applied to lubricated or "dry" fasteners.

It can make a very significant difference to the "stretch" that you put into a bolt - maybe to the point of setting it to fracture if the spec is not understood correctly.

Many years ago, I always used to put lead-based or copper-based "Antiseize compound" on lug nuts to make them easy to remove next time - but it is also a form of lubricant.

It is my understanding that unless your manual says otherwise, lug nut torque specs are intended for un-lubricated threads, and that is what I started doing a long time ago once I read about this.

If anyone knows anything I am saying to be incorrect, I'd be grateful to know!

I always carry at least a 24" breaker bar with me in case any lug nuts are particularly hard to remove, but generally don't need it as I remove wheels to repack bearings every year an check brakes (sometimes I cheat and it is two years!) so they don't get a chance to rust up too much.

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Old 12-31-2015, 07:18 PM   #53
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Brian, I can't find fault in anything yo have said, and there is nothing wrong with torque stick. The only issue I have with my beam torque wrench is getting my head in the proper place to read it accurately in some situations. You really need to have your eye directly above the pointer..or directly at the end of the point.
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Old 12-31-2015, 08:15 PM   #54
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Brian,

.... no fault found here.

My 70 yr old,(Dad's), is within a 2lb/ft of the Snap-on, plus 'ya don't have 'ta zero it when your finished.




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Old 12-31-2015, 09:16 PM   #55
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I don't trust the tire store to get the tires/rims mounted. I have found lug nuts way too tight to where you have to use a cheater to loosen. I have found the lug nuts finger tight.
Back in the last century there were no instructions in the owners manual calling out torque specs on lug nuts. Maybe it could be they put a lot more steel in the rims and they wouldn't deflect as much.
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Old 12-31-2015, 11:46 PM   #56
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I think that if a wheel is properly seated on the hub face it wont deflect at all.


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