Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 06-03-2013, 05:33 PM   #15
4 Rivet Member
 
withidl's Avatar
 
2002 31' Classic
Houston , Texas
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 440
Images: 1
For what it's worth, adding weight to the rear of my 2002 ASCL 31' hasn't affected the structure after 35,000+ miles where I have at times found drawers open and occasionally on the floor from hitting highway irregularities.

I load my tools, bottle jack, cables, hoses, etc. in the street side twin bed and rear storage compartments and drawer; the curb side twin bed storage compartment contains a 175+# Onan genset; additionally when enroute my spare tire lays on the floor between the twin beds since the genset fuel tank is mounted in the spare tire hanger.

My rear end may fall off tomorrow, but as of now there has been no harm.
__________________

__________________
withidl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2013, 05:42 PM   #16
Rivet Master
Airstream Dealer
 
Inland RV Center, In's Avatar
 
Corona , California
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 16,499
Images: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by withidl View Post
For what it's worth, adding weight to the rear of my 2002 ASCL 31' hasn't affected the structure after 35,000+ miles where I have at times found drawers open and occasionally on the floor from hitting highway irregularities.

I load my tools, bottle jack, cables, hoses, etc. in the street side twin bed and rear storage compartments and drawer; the curb side twin bed storage compartment contains a 175+# Onan genset; additionally when enroute my spare tire lays on the floor between the twin beds since the genset fuel tank is mounted in the spare tire hanger.

My rear end may fall off tomorrow, but as of now there has been no harm.
There are other issues involved.

1. Airstream "WILL" void your warranty.

2. An insurance company will deny any claim, because the damaged would be classified as "not being sudden, accidental, and direct".

3. All owners are certainly free to modifiy anything they wish, and at any time they wish. But, when it back fires, it's always someone else's fault.

It's always far better to be aware, as opposed to a surprise.

Andy
__________________

__________________
Inland RV Center, In is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2013, 12:18 AM   #17
2 Rivet Member
 
Wild-Air's Avatar
 
2012 25' FB Flying Cloud
Minden , Nevada
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 55
Blog Entries: 1
Well, thankfully, the design of this dreaded solution includes a simple disconnect from the two 2" receivers. I'd hate to have Airstream void the warranty just to have some storage capacity, and I get the idea someone may just initiate that effort.

It's sad, too, not just because this solution cost a lot of money, but because it addressed a miserable void in a $70,000 travel trailer's utility: storage for camping gear.

And instead of some of the group's best informed trying to solve the problem, they chose to defeat it.

Rather than using creative juices to improve the breed, like what I did, some have only admonitions - no solutions - just gloom over messing with Airstream's rules. Sad.
__________________
Russ
Wild-Air is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2013, 12:37 AM   #18
2 Rivet Member
 
Wild-Air's Avatar
 
2012 25' FB Flying Cloud
Minden , Nevada
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 55
Blog Entries: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by perryg114 View Post
You did a very good job on the box.

Perry
That's a nice compliment - thanks! It seems the idea may need to be shelved until the warranty expires. But if I get a nasty letter from Mother Ship AS saying their end of the deal is over due to my idea being captured on these pages, I'll slap it right back on after properly reinforcing the frame. For now, it'll sit on the ground until the dust settles.
__________________
Russ
Wild-Air is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2013, 10:45 AM   #19
Rivet Master
Airstream Dealer
 
Inland RV Center, In's Avatar
 
Corona , California
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 16,499
Images: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wild-Air View Post
That's a nice compliment - thanks! It seems the idea may need to be shelved until the warranty expires. But if I get a nasty letter from Mother Ship AS saying their end of the deal is over due to my idea being captured on these pages, I'll slap it right back on after properly reinforcing the frame. For now, it'll sit on the ground until the dust settles.
I personally agree with your feelings, but being informed is always better that being caught off guard.

Andy
__________________
Inland RV Center, In is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2013, 10:48 AM   #20
Rivet Master
 
daveswenson's Avatar
 
2012 28' International
Issaquah , Washington
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 767
I think the key is reinforcing the frame. With all the talk of tail droop on here I'm nervous just filling up the rear storage that I have. I'd also be concerned about decreasing the tongue weight too much. If those issues can be solved I think your trunk is brilliant.
__________________
Dave

2014 Ram 2500 CTD
Pro Pride
Centramatics
daveswenson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2013, 11:03 AM   #21
Rivet Master
Commercial Member
 
bredlo's Avatar
 
1954 22' Safari
Deerfield , Illinois
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 1,419
Images: 23
Send a message via AIM to bredlo
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wild-Air View Post
...I'll slap it right back on after properly reinforcing the frame. For now, it'll sit on the ground until the dust settles.
I'm sure the concerns and warnings are valid - many of them stem from folks who've seen their share of Mods Gone Wild. Surely there've been lots of uneventful examples though, as well.

You might take a couple things as you continue to evolve the design:

1, Look at how Airstream has sidestepped frame limitations via their bike rack:


That corner bracing (which I'm guessing attaches to internal ribs) is probably worth considering, especially given the amount of weight you're dealing with.

Makes me curious if tying into the rib structure would help reduce the effects of polar moments, polar arms, or polar bears.

2, Look into modifications regularly made by Andy Thompson and crew up at Can-Am RV in London, Ontario. Granted, many of their frame mods are focused on unibody tow vehicles rather than ladder-type trailer frames. But they often extend typical bolt-on receivers forward via additional bracing, and welding them on vs. bolting. I don't know that it would make a difference in your situation, but if there's any way to move that imaginary pivot point of the receiver up towards the axle... do it.

I'm sure smarter people than any of us on this thread have thought about these things... but in the case of RV engineers they're likely having to consider the limits from corporate bean counters, the cost concerns, fearful insurance companies, and the likelihood that whatever extra capacity you design... there's sure to be an idiot who'll use it to kill himself.

You, on the other hand, only need to find the realistic limits of your trailer and your specific need. Good luck, and keep us posted.
__________________
Brad
bredlo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2013, 11:06 AM   #22
Rivet Master
Airstream Dealer
 
Inland RV Center, In's Avatar
 
Corona , California
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 16,499
Images: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by daveswenson View Post
I think the key is reinforcing the frame. With all the talk of tail droop on here I'm nervous just filling up the rear storage that I have. I'd also be concerned about decreasing the tongue weight too much. If those issues can be solved I think your trunk is brilliant.
Reinforcing the frame, will only add to the problem.

First of all,keepin mind that the shell holds up the frame. The frame is a burden as it is the the monocoque method of construction.

Adding more weight, by beefing up the frame, will only add more stress to the fasteners that hold the shell and frame together.

Airstream does fasten the shell to the frame correctly. Adding weight to the rear end, becomes a added weight, which is a burden.

Also, remember that because of moment arm, adding a simple 100 pounds of weight to the rear end of a 31 foot trailer, is really adding about 1300 pounds, sitting still. When hitting a bump, that weight rapidly multiplies.

In short order then, damages will appear, that will not be covered by warrant or insurance.

Think of a "crow bar", if you wish. The longer the handle the more force you can exert. Same with moment arm. The point of last support, is the start of the measuring point.

Also, ever wonder why aircraft tails are lightly loaded, or else. Again, moment arm.

Bottom line, then is "IF" you beef up the frame, at the rear, you only add to the problem.

You also will be subtracting from the necessary tongue weight, which is not a good idea.

Andy
__________________
Inland RV Center, In is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2013, 11:46 AM   #23
Rivet Master
 
daveswenson's Avatar
 
2012 28' International
Issaquah , Washington
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 767
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inland RV Center, In View Post
Reinforcing the frame, will only add to the problem.

First of all,keepin mind that the shell holds up the frame. The frame is a burden as it is the the monocoque method of construction.

Adding more weight, by beefing up the frame, will only add more stress to the fasteners that hold the shell and frame together.

Airstream does fasten the shell to the frame correctly. Adding weight to the rear end, becomes a added weight, which is a burden.

Also, remember that because of moment arm, adding a simple 100 pounds of weight to the rear end of a 31 foot trailer, is really adding about 1300 pounds, sitting still. When hitting a bump, that weight rapidly multiplies.

In short order then, damages will appear, that will not be covered by warrant or insurance.

Think of a "crow bar", if you wish. The longer the handle the more force you can exert. Same with moment arm. The point of last support, is the start of the measuring point.

Also, ever wonder why aircraft tails are lightly loaded, or else. Again, moment arm.

Bottom line, then is "IF" you beef up the frame, at the rear, you only add to the problem.

You also will be subtracting from the necessary tongue weight, which is not a good idea.

Andy
I stand corrected.
__________________
Dave

2014 Ram 2500 CTD
Pro Pride
Centramatics
daveswenson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2013, 12:16 AM   #24
2 Rivet Member
 
Wild-Air's Avatar
 
2012 25' FB Flying Cloud
Minden , Nevada
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 55
Blog Entries: 1
Thanks, Brad.

Doing some further digging into the weakness of the AS frame, I found that during the time Beatrice Foods owned them the frame rails went from 4" to 3". There were 31' Excella models with rear baths that were sagging pretty regularly. When the redesign happened in 2000, the frames were resized to their former cross section and the sagging problem stopped.

There are frame strengthening kits and tips out here, but they're for 30-40 year old trailers. Mine is 1 year old and still perky.

I'm going to dismount the trunk for now, but with every intention of reconnecting it when I have more confidence in the frame reliability arena. I'll probably contact AS and try to get through to an engineer (if they have one) so it can be hashed out. I think the idea and design is good, and my intended use if reasonable too - it's not for hauling 1,000 pounds of gold bullion or a bunch of rocks! Ha!

I'll let you all know how it comes along.
__________________
Russ
Wild-Air is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2013, 05:05 AM   #25
Rivet Master
 
SteveSueMac's Avatar

 
2012 27' Flying Cloud
W , New England
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 5,410
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wild-Air
Thanks, Brad.

I'll probably contact AS and try to get through to an engineer (if they have one) so it can be hashed out. I think the idea and design is good, and my intended use if reasonable too - it's not for hauling 1,000 pounds of gold bullion or a bunch of rocks! Ha!

I'll let you all know how it comes along.
Please do. I think your idea and design are excellent - and not being an engineer myself, I have no idea about the separation impact others here suggest is imminent with the design. An AS engineer would obviously have the right guidance and who knows - maybe you're on to something they can incorporate as an option with some tweaking?

Good luck either way and congrats on your design.
__________________
SteveSueMac is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2013, 08:50 AM   #26
Rivet Master
 
2011 23' Flying Cloud
Durango , Colorado
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 503
Wild-Air,
Nice job. We'll appreciate your sharing user experience and any feedback/advice that you receive from Airstream. There's more urban legend than fact on the topic. Airstream / Fiamma debunked some of that by offering the chassis/bumper supported rear bike carrier for newer models.
__________________
Safe Travels,
Joe & Joan Donnaway
Durango, CO
JamuJoe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2013, 09:07 AM   #27
Rivet Master
 
1981 31' Excella II
New Market , Alabama
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 5,648
Where is the bathroom on these newer trailers? That has alot to do with the loads. A rear bath is marginal anyway and you add more stuff to the rear you are asking for problems. If it is a rear bedroom or rear dinet then the loads back there are alot less.

Perry
__________________
perryg114 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2013, 08:19 PM   #28
2 Rivet Member
 
Wild-Air's Avatar
 
2012 25' FB Flying Cloud
Minden , Nevada
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 55
Blog Entries: 1
Perry,
The bathroom on mine, along with the black tank, is just forward of the wheel well. The kitchen and refer are basically above the axles. The only thing in the back is the dinette and overhead storage.
__________________

__________________
Russ
Wild-Air is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



Virginia Campgrounds

Reviews provided by




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:37 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

Airstream is a registered trademark of Airstream Inc. All rights reserved. Airstream trademark used under license to Social Knowledge LLC.