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Old 12-03-2011, 11:07 AM   #15
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I don't know if you have Metal Supermarket's where you are.
They're a nationwide outfit.
I recently bought a 48"x96" aluminum sheet, cut into several pieces, for around $80.00
I buy a lot from them.
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Old 12-03-2011, 01:45 PM   #16
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What does the aluminum in a new belly pan cost?
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Old 12-03-2011, 02:08 PM   #17
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Aluminum prices are all over the place at the moment. In the original post it borders on gouging IHMO, I suspect in part due to small quantities and small sizes.

We buy a variety of different types of sheet metal stock at the company I work for. Current price for a sheet of painted .040 aluminum is running in the $80 range, that price will change quickly for thicker sheets, different alloy or coatings depending on what you want. The diamond embossed polished or chrome plated (yes they chrome plate aluminum) is going to be near the top of the price list for a variety of reasons, demand and production availability. I was working earlier this year at a plant that produces the diamond plate...they had a 4 month back log of orders when I was there in October.

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Old 12-03-2011, 02:18 PM   #18
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What does the aluminum in a new belly pan cost?
What are you using? My 1975 uses 3004 .024 stock last time I checked pricing it was going to cost me about $500 for materials. However the market has changed and 3004 is not as readily available. Haven't bothered to update the quote. But a sheet of something similar currently sells for ~$150 and I would probably need 3-4 sheets.

The other trick is getting the sizes you need, in most cases you will end up having to piece things together.

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Old 12-05-2011, 07:39 AM   #19
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I'll have to do a little research to be able to say what aluminum sheet I need. Probably try to go back with what was there or as close as possible.
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Old 12-05-2011, 07:53 AM   #20
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Through the years I've bought and sold a lot of copper. Some years ago while at a large scrap yard I Wichita KS selling a load of copper I bought 15 or so pcs of bright tread crops about 2'X4' for scrap price, wast much 3 or 4 bucks pr sheet. When I saw that little piece in Atwoods priced at $70.00 I had a sinking heart thinking I would have to pay some ridiculous price for belly pan and other needed aluminum sheet. You all have eased my concern considerably.
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Old 12-05-2011, 09:19 AM   #21
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What does the aluminum in a new belly pan cost?
I used 5 sheets on the belly of my '63 Overlander.

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f109...tml#post997094

At that time it was $42.78 per sheet of 4x10 x .025 3003 alloy

The last 10 sheets I bought were $46 each
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Old 12-20-2011, 05:43 PM   #22
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I just bought some drops from a metal fabricator. $2.00/pound any grade any thickness any piece they have, just throw it on the scale. The chunk I bought was 10"x 38"x 1/2" thick and cost me $20.00
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Old 12-20-2011, 06:00 PM   #23
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The Cost of Aluminum

Al is produced from bauxite, a hugely abundant material all over the world.
Al production requires a huge amount of electricity since Al is produced by electrolysis.
This ties the cost of Al to the cost of electricity.

There is an added cost.

Clean air regulations in this country have driven Al production offshore. Since bauxite is abundant worldwide, and the production process is cheap and easy to facilitize, Al can be produced anywhere easier than it can now be produced here. Domestic Al production is a casualty of regulation.

The added cost is shipping from Al producing countries outside the U.S.
The U.S. was once the major producer of Al.

It's not gouging. It's economics.
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Old 12-21-2011, 02:24 PM   #24
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This has been haunting me since I saw it last Saturday (11-26-11) while visiting Clarksville AR over Thanksgiving we went in an Atwoods store. They had the little racks with small pieces of metal stock for sale. 3' lengths or 18"X24" sheets. Now I know this is probably the most expensive way you will see metal priced but what I saw seemed way out of line. They had sheets of Bright Tread Aluminum 1/8" thick about 18"X 24" priced at $70.00 pr sheet.! Has aluminum gone up in price that much or are thy just out rite gouging the public???
If you think that's bad, check out the price of "milk", in Hawaii.

Usually around $10.00, yes ten dollars, a gallon.

Production costs for metals in the USA are way up, partly because of governmental (local and federal) regulations.

Same reason gasolene is way out of line.

Andy
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Old 12-21-2011, 04:06 PM   #25
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Al is produced from bauxite, a hugely abundant material all over the world.

Also,

Clean air regulations in this country have driven Al production offshore. Since bauxite is abundant worldwide, and the production process is cheap and easy to facilitize, Al can be produced anywhere easier than it can now be produced here. Domestic Al production is a casualty of regulation.

The added cost is shipping from Al producing countries outside the U.S.
The U.S. was once the major producer of Al.
Agree that added cost is due to transport from production outsourcing. However, govt regs are a minimal impact for Al production. Labor and mineral supply are much bigger factors. Ore grade bauxite is globally abundant, but very depleted in the US and its nearby neighbors (Jamaica was a large supplier for a long time, but production has decreased steadily due to depletion). Production moved cause it's waaaay cheaper to transport the refined product than the raw ore since it is a much smaller volume. Improvements in power generation and lower labor rates in developing nations also put a serious squeeze on US refining margins. Air quality enhancements were a tiny increment of production cost.

I'm not a fan on govt interference on business, but there is a strong need for truth regarding the drivers behind Americas real place in the natural resources game. We're only just getting our head around domestice energy production. Strategic mineral production policy is still in a dark age. Just look at the situation we've found ourselves in regarding rare earth minerals. Talk about WOW.
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Old 12-22-2011, 04:29 AM   #26
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Agree that added cost is due to transport from production outsourcing. However, govt regs are a minimal impact for Al production. Labor and mineral supply are much bigger factors. Ore grade bauxite is globally abundant, but very depleted in the US and its nearby neighbors (Jamaica was a large supplier for a long time, but production has decreased steadily due to depletion). Production moved cause it's waaaay cheaper to transport the refined product than the raw ore since it is a much smaller volume. Improvements in power generation and lower labor rates in developing nations also put a serious squeeze on US refining margins. Air quality enhancements were a tiny increment of production cost.

I'm not a fan on govt interference on business, but there is a strong need for truth regarding the drivers behind Americas real place in the natural resources game. We're only just getting our head around domestice energy production. Strategic mineral production policy is still in a dark age. Just look at the situation we've found ourselves in regarding rare earth minerals. Talk about WOW.
This^^^

I don't work in the metals industry directly, but am closely tied to them. The last 4 primary metals plants (Aluminum) that I am aware of closing in the US the driving force was primarily power costs. One that I am very close to is is facing this struggle right now. Their long term power contract is about to expire, the power company is looking at their options, due to a huge population build up in the area the power company is going to be running short on capacity, new power plants are expensive. Something will have to give and sadly it will probably be the metals plant. BTW IIRC their average annual power bill is somewhere in the range of $36 million dollars.

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Old 12-22-2011, 09:22 AM   #27
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profit is still here/jobs are not

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alumaholic View Post
Al is produced from bauxite, a hugely abundant material all over the world.
Al production requires a huge amount of electricity since Al is produced by electrolysis.
This ties the cost of Al to the cost of electricity.

There is an added cost.

Clean air regulations in this country have driven Al production offshore. Since bauxite is abundant worldwide, and the production process is cheap and easy to facilitize, Al can be produced anywhere easier than it can now be produced here. Domestic Al production is a casualty of regulation.

The added cost is shipping from Al producing countries outside the U.S.
The U.S. was once the major producer of Al.

It's not gouging. It's economics.
A like Hansoms reasons why these plants have moved to lower energy any labor cost locations.

To blame clean air regulations as the cause of vanishing manufacturing plants and the jobs that went with them is just wrong. First off, what do you have against clean air? Or are these regulations just another liberal anti capitalist plan to destroy big business in America? Give me a break.

Yes it is economics. Higher cost of energy plus labor costs and health costs means it is more profitable to send the work away. The profits are still there and prices continue to go up. Clean air may be an accidental benefit of offshore production. But blaming environmentalists and anti capitalist that run big gov is just so much easier.
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Old 12-22-2011, 10:13 AM   #28
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Yes, I Like Clean Air

ALCOA (Aluminum Company of America) actually reopened three smelters in the continental U.S. in early 2011. The company cited reduced energy costs as the reason.

The point here is that Al production decisions are based on several factors, and the cost of energy is a major factor. Energy production is heavily impacted by environmental regulation. Labor costs are rarely cited as a deciding factor in Al production. The cost of energy and the cost of shipping bauxite ore are the two big drivers.

I am a conservationist. I believe we can continue to enjoy the highest standard of living if we husband our resources, and produce energy with a careful consideration of environmental impacts. Since Al is a "critical material" as Hansom stated, I once travelled extensively throughout this hemisphere in the study of energy and Al production. That was 20 years ago, but even then our U.S. companies were beginning to feel the regulatory squeeze.
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