Please Help! Safe, or Immediate Fix?

[adriennes]

Hello! Complete newbies here... we just purchased our '97 Excella 30' and couldn't be more excited to get 'streamin Unfortunately, our excitement may have clouded our vision when we picked up our new baby. The couple was just so nice and the day so cold... long story short, shame on us for overlooking this.

The couple we bought from live in Canada and have been driving the Airstream down and back to Florida and Arizona each winter. They were living in it this winter until driving it up to meet us on their way home. Everything works beautifully and it looks to be very well maintained. We were thrilled with the purchase.

When we got home and started to really look her over, we noticed a previously patched/repaired rear compartment frame and some cracked caulking along the rear end. When you stand on the bumper, this cracked seam opens up slightly. This made us worried about rear end separation and started digging out the carpet in the rear compartment under the bed and guess what... wood that is rotted out.

We ripped up the carpet and dried out the area. We also cleaned out & sealed up the hatch and cracks to prevent any water from doing any more damage.

Obviously, we will need to address this, but we have already booked a camping trip this upcoming weekend. It is about a 3 hour drive each way. My question is, are we safe to take this trip or should we cancel as to not do further damage? I know rear end separation is not good, and that is what we're looking at, right? Or are we supposed to be looking for separation at a different location than this joint?

Please forgive me for my lack of insight- as I said, we are total newbies. What should be our next step? Finding someone qualified to look her over or digging into things ourselves?

See pics below for what we are seeing. Happy to attach more if helpful.







Thank you!

Adrienne

[Lumatic]

Most rear end separation issues I have heard of are 70s models. Not saying you don't have a problem, but it would surprise me in AS did not make some changes to minimize this problem, like a beefier frame.

I recommend you also make sure your axles are up to snuff. In a 97 you are probably OK.

[A W Warn]

My 99 Excella looks the same, but mine is cracked only on one side. I've towed thousands of miles with it in this condition.

I'm really not sure why it happens, but my guess is it is caused by dragging the rear skid plates on the pavement. Mine sometimes drags while driving in or out of driveways where there is an elevation change/slope. In your photo, the hump in the rubber tread on top of the bumper seems to be evidence of the frame being slightly upward.

In mine, the break in the door frame has not been a problem other than it lets water drip into the storage drawer. I have not seen any water penetration to the wood subfloor.

Another thing to check: If the FRP (fiberglass reinforced plastic) piece is still in the bottom of the storage drawer it is a good idea to remove it. It traps water beneath it which will eventually rust out the drawer.

I say go on your trip and keep an eye on it.

add edit:
When one person stands on the bumper bouncing up and down, while someone else checks for movement between the frame and body, is a good way to check for separation. Free movement indicates separation. I do not think this is your problem.

[cwf]

Sorry your first post has to be so difficult.

It is possible the sellers may actually not know there was a problem.

Allow me to offer some help with Airforums... I am sure you know the search function can be useful.. but with discovering this problem, we know you have to ask!!! When I search, I click the "search" at top of the Airforums page, then enter your string into the "Google" field.

I just used the Google search function here and found lots and lots of threads from diagnosing to repair. I searched, with quote included, "rear end separation". I got over 700 hits.

So... towing will cause vibrations which will further affect the damage. Since the design of the AS frame uses the shell, connected to the floor and frame, weakness in that area will allow things to wiggle... that puts more stress on the spots that are still connected.

Bottom line, towing is your decision. If it were mine, I would not tow. I would dry the area out and fix the problem. If fixing is beyond your skills, the Mothership can fix it for you. Yes, that will be expensive.

We can offer more "free advice" once you can give us more info/pics.

For instance, can you raise the bed, crawl into the storage and poke around the area of the AS where the problem is?? Pull back floor or covering? Take pics?

[Minno]

You're probably good for this weekend's trip, unless you walk into the rear of the trailer, and feel like you're going to fall through (that's what ours was like - totally rotted out rear but still towable). As long as you've sealed everything again and dried the area out, you probably can safely use the trailer until you figure out what you need to fix. I would doubt you have rear end separation with just a very slight flex on the rear bumper, but it wouldn't hurt to do some more research. If it's a small area you can probably patch it in. There are many threads on the Forums where people successfully have done that.
Good luck, and Welcome!

Kay

[adriennes]

Thank you so much! We have searched and searched the threads on rear end separation and I think we are just unsure about exactly where we are supposed to be looking for movement. The bumper (cover?) is plastic and seems to be what flexes when we stand on the bumper. Is it possible that we are not looking at the correct spot? I was trying to find a video showing someone jumping on a bumper and where they are looking- haha. I have yet to find one.

Here is a shot of the inside left of the rear under bed compartment. The right side seems intact. The left side is rotted though- this goes back about a foot. I'm wondering if this could have been caused by the cracks in the corners of the hatch frame.

I can't tell you how much we appreciate the responses. It is overwhelming at first to navigate this site and we have been searching and searching through the forums. It's just unusual to find anyone with a late 90's model talking about this problem. It has been helpful to spell out exactly what we are seeing and getting these great replies! Hopefully, one day we will be the helpful ones!

[Lumatic]

Where to look for movement is the point where the outer skin of the rear of the coach meets the bumper structure, There should be caulking to seal this junction. Cracking may be do to normal wear and tear, but it could be a hint of rear end separation. If there is no craccking you are ok. If there is cracking in the caulk, you probably still are ok with a 97, Cut out the cracked caulking, re-caulk with Vulkem and keep an eye on it.

The major connection between the coach and the frame is a steel angle iron which you can't see. It is prone to rust out over years. Another reason to make sure this joint is sealed with Vuilkem.

You have a good chance of doing a subfloor repair without taking things apart. First figure out where the leak is and fix it. Second probe the rotten wood to see how bad it is. Only a couple of inches can be repaired with scabbing in some new plywood and sealing with penetrating epoxy resin. I have also used fiberglass resin and cloth which is a repair better than new.

[SuzyHomemakr]

Originally Posted by Lumatic

Where to look for movement is the point where the outer skin of the rear of the coach meets the bumper structure, There should be caulking to seal this junction. Cracking may be do to normal wear and tear, but it could be a hint of rear end separation. If there is no craccking you are ok. If there is cracking in the caulk, you probably still are ok with a 97, Cut out the cracked caulking, re-caulk with Vulkem and keep an eye on it.

The major connection between the coach and the frame is a steel angle iron which you can't see. It is prone to rust out over years. Another reason to make sure this joint is sealed with Vuilkem.

You have a good chance of doing a subfloor repair without taking things apart. First figure out where the leak is and fix it. Second probe the rotten wood to see how bad it is. Only a couple of inches can be repaired with scabbing in some new plywood and sealing with penetrating epoxy resin. I have also used fiberglass resin and cloth which is a repair better than new.

All very good advice! That and the Jump-On-The-Bumper test. Don't bother searching for "Vulkem", it's no longer manufactured. Try "TremPro 635 Polyurethane" instead. It's available at vintagetrailersupply.com. All of the old-timers still say Vulkem...

In my mind, Airstream went out of their way to design and excellent water-catching system where the shell connects to the frame. So don't think that you have a lemon, necessarily.

Poke at the rotted section with a scratch awl, and see if you go through. If so, replace the section. If not, and you feel lucky, use a penetrating epoxy designed for repairing rotted wood. Lots of good info here: http://www.epoxyproducts.com/rot.html. I'd be careful about using polyester resin and cloth, as the cloth has to be adhered to the substrate 100%. Any air gaps can be a new place for water to insidiously seep in, and then have no way to get out! In fact, this is a good lesson to keep in mind with other repairs, as well. Just screwing on new plywood in a leaky area can trap water much better than just letting it sit on the original. Seal it up tight!

[Starlight Mike]

Go camping, fix later

[TG Twinkie]

Go camping.

[tjdonahoe]

Age with lots of miles....nothing lasts forever...

[Lumatic]

Originally Posted by tjdonahoe

Age with lots of miles....nothing lasts forever...

I resemble that remark

[A W Warn]

Originally Posted by adriennes

Thank you so much! We have searched and searched the threads on rear end separation and I think we are just unsure about exactly where we are supposed to be looking for movement. The bumper (cover?) is plastic and seems to be what flexes when we stand on the bumper. Is it possible that we are not looking at the correct spot? I was trying to find a video showing someone jumping on a bumper and where they are looking- haha. I have yet to find one.

Here is a shot of the inside left of the rear under bed compartment. The right side seems intact. The left side is rotted though- this goes back about a foot. I'm wondering if this could have been caused by the cracks in the corners of the hatch frame.

I can't tell you how much we appreciate the responses. It is overwhelming at first to navigate this site and we have been searching and searching through the forums. It's just unusual to find anyone with a late 90's model talking about this problem. It has been helpful to spell out exactly what we are seeing and getting these great replies! Hopefully, one day we will be the helpful ones!

Attachment 280940

Slow down! It is not an emergency to make this repair. Go camping and think about it for a while.

I suggest you seal up those open cracks ASAP, while you decide what you are going to do.

That floor rot is not good!
Plywood repair options:
1. do nothing (if you can live with it, it is ok for a while)
2. cut out the rotted portion of rotted plywood out and put in a small patch
3. epoxy/fiberglass repair/reinforce in place the existing plywood (this is what I did in my Safari)
4. remove a section of floor from the outside edge at the bumper back to the first cross member at the front of the drawer (requires removing the bedroom furniture and carpet)

To check for separation:
The trailer's main frame members are rectangular steel tubes that run on both sides of the rear storage drawer, where the drawer roller rails are mounted. If you look beneath the trailer you will see two steel c-channels welded to the bottom of the frame. Those channels are the skid plates that keep from damaging the drawer and bumper when the rear of the trailer drags. Stand on the bumper directly over the tube frame when bouncing up and down. Look for movement between the top of the bumper and the skin of the trailer. (on each side of the hatch opening where the fingers are pointing in photos in post #1). If there is separation that crack above the beltline will open up a lot with bouncing movement of someone standing on the bumper.

Look at the caulking around the top and sides of the hatch and the window perimeters. If the caulk around the perimeter of either is bad, especially the top edges, that is where water can come inside.
Also look at the exhaust fan over the bed. If it leaks at the perimeter of the fan curb water can run between the interior and exterior skins and end up on the floor.

[The Ice Man]

Originally Posted by Lumatic

I resemble that remark

Indeed you do, but you're loveable!

To OP: Welcome, go camping, try not to worry. Lots of good advice above.

[adriennes]

Thank you again for all of the great info! We tore out the carpet and some wet insulation from under the rotted wood. We put fans in the camper and dried out the remaining rotted wood. It will be a repair for sure, but this weekend WE ARE CAMPING IN OUR AIRSTREAM FOR THE FIRST TIME! WOOHOO!!!

[Chaplain Kent]

I am happy to hear you are camping. I too doubt you have a separation problem. You have taken the first step for a repair by removing the carpet. As you now know the carpet was put in prior to the cabinets and had to be cut out. In the 90's carpet was the rage and I am certain people raved about their carpeted storage compartments. Your side compartment is also carpeted and even the floor under your water pump is carpeted! Over the years this carpet gets wet, small leaks allow it to absorb water and never dry out completely.
I noticed in your first set of pictures your rear hatch door does not appear to be aligned. This could be the source of your moisture.