Ohio Design Thesis - Resto/Redesign

[Cursh]

*I am going to follow this up with a couple questions I have - as I am going to start prepping to pull the shell this weekend - mocking up my interior and making sure I want it. as a lot of what is happening in the floor seems to effect my interior layout.*

So - My first couple posts were maybe 3 months ago as I was looking for a sub 20ft pre 1970 Airstream to redesign for my senior thesis . . . Well, (as you all told me) that wasn't going to happen.

But I am now the proud owner of "BahBu" the 1967 22" Safari (shell)

I picked him up from a nice young family in Atlanta about 2 months ago?

anyway - mass photos







The claim was 200lbs hitch weight and 2000lbs trailer weight . . . I find that hard to believe - This is going to be replaced with something more "substantial" as soon as I get home.

Dr. Philip Lewis doing some stress tests.


Love at first sight




Well - that saves me a lot of work.


Obligatory Stupid Face






Lunch break! - lets go watch someone blow up a road!

So there is a large gap in pictures here because my friend (whos camera we were using) didn't ever give me the second half.

This is where things get interesting.

Around 10pm, in the rain Bahbu decided he needed to take a piss break, and didn't tell anyone. He just kinda stopped being attached to the car . . . and he took the hitch with him.

So In my rear view mirror at about 55 mph (yeah, I was going pretty slow) I see this tin can go sparking down the interstate with no input from me as to which direction I would prefer it to be going in.

Luckily no one got hurt, and Bahbu got out of the deal with scratches (also, apparently not showing proof of insurance in Kentucky can land you in jail. I mannaged to talk my way out of that one, but thats another story.)

The pictures pick up with Me in my buddies truck looking for the impound lot in which Bahbu was deposited after the kind tow operator retrieved him for me from the Median on 75 N


I think this might be the only station wagon on the planet challenging Brinsly (my Baby) for bossest wagon on the road.


At this point I am lost - but everything is so beautiful that I don't really care.










Poor Bahbu - He ended up losing his load leveling jack - creasing his front panel and loosing his Tow Jack. Not bad for him bailing at speed.



Back to Cincinnati - where he sat on a street corner in the ghetto for a month and a half as I tried to figure out how I could move him somewhere more appropriate to work on him.


Damage to Brinsley - Totaled. Damn unibody construction. Still drives like a dream though.





My friend ended up getting a garage north of Cincinnati and needed someone to rent out some space from him - so I gladly took on a fourth of it from him and we took bahbu up to nowhere OH


Happily leaving the ghetto.





Bahbu's new home until we get the keys to the garage (not shown)

[soldiermedic]

wow....you have gone through alot to get that safari home.

Enjoy the project...you are in for one heck of a study hall.

Steve

[Cursh]

So now that Im getting into thinking about the resto - I am thinking about a couple things.

Firstly I was wondering if I could replace Ply with solid hardwood?

I think I can find an appropriate thickness, and am pretty sure it would be strong enough, but still want to get the oppinions of people who know about these things.

Secondly, The Bubble Foil technique - strip pink insulation foam into 1" strips - glue to outer shell - glue bubble foil to foam.-

The question here is - do I space out these strips at all, or are they butted up against eachother? I am assuming the second, but I'm not 100% on that, so I figured it would be best to ask.

Lastly, I am planning on placing my fresh water tank under my kitchen counter between the axle and next frame brace. It will be prodrude into the cabinents slightly (but I figure that with the toe board area on cabinents it will fit fine) Is that gap in floor going to cause problems Structurally? Does the floor do much to hold everything together (other than providing a terrible 3/4" spacer between the C chanel and the frame?)

Thank you

Oh, here are my thoughts on interior lay out currently



I really want to put the lofted bed in the front, to offer the opportunity for anyone at the dinette to interact with people outside through the open door, but I think the windows just aren't going to allow it.

Anyway - thanks for all the help - this site has been a fantastic help so far, and I'm sure will be even more of one as I actually am beginning to get started.

My current goal is floor and insulation by bonnaroo

-Ben

[safari62]

I think that says it all.

[Cursh]

Hey - you know what they say . . . if you can't make fun of yourself . . .

[Fyrzowt]

The plywood is an integral part of the structure. It seems as though using hardwood would diminish that strength. There have been other ideas and things tried as replacements for the plywood, but you should stick with some form of structural panel. Search around for posts of other options.
Welcome to the forums and good luck with your project!!

[2airishuman]

the floorplan is interesting....

and might work better rotated 180...

wet bath up front has issues,

like a really long run for the drain pipes and plumbing,

also reduced ground clearance for these 3 inch pipes on the underside when up front....

this stuff is all usually mid/rear street side for a reason.

then there is the issue of tank placements...

there are really good really good reasons the tanks are placed very close to the axles...

with the bath/toilet/galley close to the tanks....

but what the heck it's an 'experiment' right?

cheers
2air'

[rideair]

Cursh,

When I looked at the first picture of the hitch and how you had it mounted, I knew even before getting to the next ones what I would see! It's people doing dumb crap like this that gets people "KILLED"!!

I first would ask, who mounted that hitch like that? If it was not you, the person that did it should be put in jail. If it was you, before you ever get back out on the road have someone that "KNOWS" what the are doing show you how things need to be done!

YOU COULD HAVE KILLED SOMEONE!! And are lucky you didn't!

And based on your post, you're just laughing it off as a dumb mistake!

Please have someone that knows what they are doing, show you the correct way! If not, please let me know when and were you will be with your trailer so I can stay far, far away!

Have fun fixing up your trailer, but don't take it out until you "understand" what is needed to tow it!

"UNBELIEVABLE" just "UNBELIEVABLE"

[cameront120]

I'm not sure dimensional lumber would give the same rigidity as plywood. Well, it would, but it would take way more fasteners than the plywood would need. You might research some of the composite flooring panels that have been touched on elsewhere on the forums. Do a search and you should get a lot of information.

Also, won't your desired water tank placement throw the balance of the trailer off?

What kind of wood stove are you planning on? Is it some sort of zero clearance model? If you are thinking of a regular free-standing cast iron wood stove, there are minimum clearances to combustible materials required, which don't seem to be allowed for in your plan.

Best of luck!

[87MH]

Let me preface the following that my comments are meant with absolutely no malice - only concern and hard earned experience frame this reply.

You have no idea how incredibly lucky you were not to have rolled the trailer AND the Avant when the hitch tore off of the Audi -

The forums has much valuable info - but you must dig to find it - first off - do a search of "Tow Vehicles" to determine the proper tow vehicle - most here recommend AT LEAST a 20% safety factor - (only tow 80% of the vehicle RATING) - that puts you (probably) in the 1/2 ton pickup range MINIMUM.

Your 22' '67 Caraval was 2450 lbs (bare) and had 300 lbs on the tongue when it left the factory....and you started the trip with a 2000/200 lb hitch with no sway/weight distribution, apparently no brakes, in the dark, in the rain.


On the proposed interior changes - the Airstream is of a monocoque design - the frame, floor, and shell work together to provide the overall unit strength...lose the floor integrity, or the bond from the frame to the floor to the shell, and the thing is guaranteed to fall apart.

From looking at the pics - I can almost promise that your axle is shot - also it appears that there are some issues with the body - looks as if there are some "waves" in the aluminum.

I would highly recommend that you get with a mechanical engineer to rectify the frame/body/running gear deficiencies prior to doing much to the interior - having put as much time and effort (and money) into the '78 Sovereign and the '87 345 Motor Home I promise that there will be more than enough work (and Thesis material) to go around.

Be careful of the weight you add during the rebuild - it's real easy to add a BUNCH of weight in a hurry - since the axle looks iffy, and you are planning a shell off anyway - you might thing of reinforcing the frame while it is exposed.

An interesting solution is here:http://www.airforums.com/forums/f36/...ame-29294.html

Start by researching threads by searching "floor replacement" "relocation of water tank" "full monty", etc. Here is a starter thread -

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f44/...ons-35399.html

Also, familiarize yourself with all of the posts in the Forum you have posted this thread in - lots of information.

Most of us who have "been there and done that and have the tee shirt" will be glad to help if you PM us with a question that you are hesitant to post to the general forum.

Thanks for being honest with the towing blunder, and we also appreciate the pictorial dissertation.

Hope you are able to document all of the rebuild as handily as you did the pickup. Have your Prof contact some of us who have done and have documented total time and costs if he gives you any trouble with your progress.

Luck.

[fastrob]

Great project!
Go plywood or stronger for the floor.
Bottoms up, fix the frame, floor and body. Do axle later.
While fixing the frame, plan out your tanks placement. Remember, keep the weight low, on center and close to the axles. No one wants to meet your beauty cruising down the road alone.
There are superb craftsmen on this forum willing to help in a lot of ways.
Humor and humility help a lot.
Good luck,

R

[2airishuman]

of course we are all grateful for the 'how not to tow' vignette

clearly the entire towing combo was a stupid human trick...

as an audi and a/s guy, the whole thing makes me cringe...

but people put others at risk on our roadways with their crazy trailering combos everyday.

IF the trailer front is 'crinkled' as a result of the accident...

there is most likely frame/tongue structural damage in that area now.

and while we all know the floor is a key structural element with all a/s...

replacing it with planking is a great idea!

because with no structural floor, a broken frame, shot axle, rear tank and front head...

it's a virtual certainty this unit will never make it out of a driveway again!

we're all lucky to have survived college for 1 reason or another....

i pity the instructor who has to grade the project, it will go something like this....

"what a wonderful idea, but the research, execution and basics are a bit weak"..."you might consider art or advertising with your skill set"...

ok, i'm just kidding, the vigor and energy of youth is refreshing...

cheers
2air'

[Cursh]

The information I had gathered was that . . .

The shell weighed 1200lbs as it sat

and

The hitch weight was no where near 200lbs as I could lift the trailer with my bare hands.

Thanks for all the information to help my towing.

I have read through

Carlos's resto completely

and

A-Merry-in-a-tin-can (or something, sorry, not off the top of my head yet)
through the floor.

The water tanks are both going to be at the axles for obvious weight reasons and I am going to check out the frame fully while the shell is off (would be stupid not to right?

anyway - I'm taking a closer look at everything this weekend and will continue to document my progress.

Thanks for all the help.

[Cursh]

Oh, and the trailer had lights - just no brakes, but the Audi had absolutely no issue stopping the load.

The flasher in the second set of pics is because my friends dakota doesn't have a 4pin (or any pin really) hook up.

[87MH]

Originally Posted by Cursh

editing for youngness

Most of us have "been there and done that" - I'm sure that I do not remember ALL of the "stuff" I did +/- 40 years ago, just lucky to have (barely) survived - I won't even begin to list the "stupid stuff" in my learning experiences - heck, I'm lucky now to remember what I did yesterday.

I'm sure you will get a kick out of reviewing this thread 40 years from now!

[Cursh]

[as I've been reading I have noticed, some issues get addressed but never resolved in thread, so I'm going to do my best to link all my information here for anyone searching]

Here is a PDF i found on towing capacities. Its for another company, but could be useful for anyone looking at this information.
http://trailmanor.com/WebDocs/Campin...towratings.pdf

The current search is on for a E series van or an astro - The astro isn't listed here, but the 2005 model is listed at 5700lbs and the design hasn't been changed in over 20 years, so it might just work.

[2airishuman]

with a name like crush (it fits better than cursh), i know you can take a little jab herenthere....

take a good look at don's thread and his work here...

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f36/...mbi-17925.html

he did a really fine job on this unit and handled almost all the work himself...

he's a great resource for ya and so is his other half, traveling as s-tardis...

it's gonna be alotta fun to see your picture essay!

carlos's threads make it look WAY too easy, he's some sort of magic man...

mere mortals have a little more trouble with this stuff...

cheers
2air'

[rideair]

Cursh,

I saw your reply, before you decided to go back and edit the response to my post.

I'll stick to what I said, "Learn the RIGHT way".

Even you said, your mech. told you it was not connected to anything of strengh. Did you tell them what you were going to tow? Yes, I know we all make dumb mistakes, but this one could have killed someone! Would you have had ulcers then? And when you decide to take your trip in Jan. you said you would "PM" first, please do (unless you have someone that knows what they are doing show how). If you would like to come to Virginia, I'll be happy to spend as must time as needed to show you the correct way.

I know you cannot change the past, only learn from it.

We are have a VAC middle of June in Virginia. Spend the time to come down(without the trailer) and ask as many questions as you like or go to the rally at P&S trailers in Ohio (middle of Sept) to learn.

Just don't want to see you or anyone else get hurt or killed over another dumb mistake!

I'll be happy to help, just ask.

[Cursh]

I totally understand that - I just get hot headed. My mother should have told me to count to 15 instead of ten. (i generally realize the error of my wayspretty quickly though.)

Thanks for the pointers.

Originally Posted by 2airishuman

with a name like crush, i know you can take a little jab herenthere....

yeah - I catch a lot of flack for about everything I do, I'm used to it.


*last question today. Its slow and I have internet.

So hardwood has been ruled out for the stated reasons, but is cracking through the floor with my water tank a bad idea?



The kitchen counter is right up on the axles - and the tank wouldn't be right up on the wall. - again, I'm asking because I dont know.

[byamcaravanner]

Originally Posted by Cursh

...is cracking through the floor with my water tank a bad idea?

Bad idea? Yes!

You can put a tank below and a tank above and connect the two if you need to minimize either the interior height or the "hang" underneath.