Ohio Design Thesis - Resto/Redesign

[Gene]

I think Zep is correct. The standard for houses (1/8" per foot) is based on hard pipe which won't sag, like ABS or cast iron. You won't use cast iron in a trailer and for waste pipe (toilet) if it goes straight down to the black water tank, no problem. ABS or PVC is ok for sink or shower drains and any long runs should be supported to make sure there is no sag. I think Airstream uses PEX for supply lines and they are more flexible and should be supported. The shorter the lines, the less potential for a problem.

You have to assume that at some time you will drain everything and the trailer won't be heated, so preventing pools of water is very important.

You said at one point you wanted to use a wood stove. How would you direct heat to the water tanks? How do you keep the fire going if you are gone for a half a day or more? Have you ever tried to use frozen toothpaste? You have to have a second heating to make sure things don't freeze or move to Miami.

Gene

[Arteacherz]

Woodstove Water-Heater Coil by Thermo-Bilt, stainless steel, for wood stove, corn stove, coal stove.

I found this website for woodstove heat recovery.
Of course Nancy and I live way south of y'all.
We were thinking of a wood fired hot tub for a cabin.

Bill

[summerkid]

.... I wandered away for a year and it will take me 5 more to catch up with the forums!

Wow, a lot has happened to Cursh since he & a buddy came to spend the night & take a look at all the Airstreams littering my driveway. Dummy, he wasn't scared off then, can't figure out why.

So glad that we have a new scapegoat. For awhile there, it was ME. (Of course, there were only 5,000 people to pick on me back when I joined the forums, and I didn't publicize every blond-bunny towing trick I pulled!)

Here's my contribution to the discussion: Just because a bungee cord has held yer door shut from Texas to Georgia doesn't mean that it will hold for just 40 more miles.

Also, my redesigned 'Streams are going to have as few cooking amenities as possible. Even in my house, which has been under demolition for 3 years, I cook up a storm with just the m'wave & a large electric skillet. If I want to bake cookies, we use my b'friend's house. But I'm also vegetarian. Do carnivores need burners & ovens?

Oh wait -- here's another way to test yer theories, Ben: I figure that it's easier to try off-the-grid living when you have the option of being on the grid, so I have had Nicor turn off my gas until I cry Uncle. So I have no forced-air heat or hot water for the moment. It's funny the things you adapt to, the things you miss ... but all good knowledge for how to design your life when not buying into the societal norms even creative thinkers take for granted.

So hi all! And Ben, I hope I see you & an Airstream pulling into my courtesy parking sometime soon (sounds vulgar but would've sounded worse if I'd said "Silver Bullet" so deal ....)

[Gene]

Originally Posted by summerkid

So glad that we have a new scapegoat. For awhile there, it was ME.

Don't worry, we're all scapegoats from time to time.

Gene

[cameront120]

Originally Posted by Arteacherz

Woodstove Water-Heater Coil by Thermo-Bilt, stainless steel, for wood stove, corn stove, coal stove.

I found this website for woodstove heat recovery.
Of course Nancy and I live way south of y'all.
We were thinking of a wood fired hot tub for a cabin.

Bill

Check this out:

http://cedartubs.com/chofu.html

[Bob Thompson]

Having the oven/range next to the entry door is not a problem. It was the standard arrangement for our 25' Excella. We've never had a complaint with it in that location. Note: you don't need a lot of cabinets to have an efficient kitchen.

[Cursh]

Summer =) good to hear from you. I'm currently playing the "no propane" game simple because I haven't run the lines yet. =) a space heater is in my imediate future to be sure.

Question of the day - Heating the airstream

Is there an electric vented replacement for my propane vented heater?

the one thing I don't have is my original propane heater, and unfortunately my stove is currently going to cover the vent hole.

If I relocate the heater slightly back (towards the axles) would it be problematic to bend the vent pipes? (I can't figure out why it would, but maybe someone else knows)

I'm a little flustered with all of the vent placements, but as much as I look at the other (old) floor plan it just looks inefficient and wrong.

[cameront120]

If you are using an electric heater venting is not required. If you are installing a new propane heater and are proposing to vent remotely from the unit itself, that will be a question for the manufacturer of the heater. As an example, gas fireplaces are designed to be direct vented or remote vented, but there are required rises and runs for the vents, if you are venting remotely. There is science behind these numbers and I would want to be certain that the manufacturer of your propane heater has some input into this.

[Bob Thompson]

On my picture above, the propane furnace is located under the range/oven. The furnace isn't very tall, has two discharges towards the front room/door area and two 4" round ducts going to the rear, one to the bedroom, the other to a discharge in the OEM bath area (right above the axles).

[malconium]

Originally Posted by Cursh

Summer =) good to hear from you. I'm currently playing the "no propane" game simple because I haven't run the lines yet. =) a space heater is in my imediate future to be sure.

Question of the day - Heating the airstream

Is there an electric vented replacement for my propane vented heater?

the one thing I don't have is my original propane heater, and unfortunately my stove is currently going to cover the vent hole.

If I relocate the heater slightly back (towards the axles) would it be problematic to bend the vent pipes? (I can't figure out why it would, but maybe someone else knows)

I'm a little flustered with all of the vent placements, but as much as I look at the other (old) floor plan it just looks inefficient and wrong.

Cursh,

Check out the propane heaters at this site. Many (maybe all) are intended for RV use and most if not all use modern ODS (Oxygen Depletion Sensor) technology that allows the heater to work without a vent. The seem to be nice and compact and they can mount on the wall.

uscatalytic.com

I believer there are other brands of similar heaters out there too.

Malcolm

[Cursh]

There are also some pricey high efficiency electric heaters on that site that i might have to consider for the distant future of my "home"

Great link Malcolm - Thank you

And this fun little "heat loss calculator" wants me to get a 6000btu heater.

using the dimensions from Vintage Trailer Supply replacement glass I found I have 26 sq ft of windows, and selected 3 exterior walls.

http://hearth.com/php/room.php

[Bob Thompson]

Other possibilities...if you have or plan to have an air conditioner, usually there are electric heat strips (resistive heating "3.4 btus per watt") which can be added to the air conditioner for the heat cycle.

Also, there are some Heat Pump air conditioners out there, Carrier 15,000 btu units come to mind, which provide heat and cool and should be able to do it using much fewer watts than resistive heating.
Carrier RV Air Conditioner Heat Pump 15,000 btu Complete - $..

[Cursh]

I'm having trouble bending the angle iron (and by iron I of course mean aluminum) i purchased at lowes to my satisfaction. I would like to to flush the walls as a sort of wall trim/attachment bracket, and while I can bend it pretty easily with my hands it gets all wobbly. I'm going to look into jigs and such, but figured that someone here probably has already worked all kinks out of this.

much thanks.
-Ben

[soldiermedic]

Cursh,

Go to harbor freight and buy a cheap hand brake that will do the job. Easier, and worth the investment.

Steve

[Zeppelinium]

Originally Posted by Cursh

I'm having trouble bending the angle iron (and by iron I of course mean aluminum) i purchased at lowes to my satisfaction. I would like to to flush the walls as a sort of wall trim/attachment bracket, and while I can bend it pretty easily with my hands it gets all wobbly. ...-Ben

If you're trying to get "L" extrusion to curve, you need a shrinker/stretcher tool. I've seen them at Harbor Freight for about $180 for the pair.

A brake is for bending sheet metal. You can make fixtures for forming long strips of sheet into "L" bracket with varying included angles (as well as curved), but it requires a lot of wood to make all the unique female pieces and the corresponding male pieces for clamping everything tight tight tight. Then you have to carefully hammer the edge down.

There's no reall good solution for the home shop when you need double curvature.

Zep

PS--and there's no better 2,000th post than to be talking about forming aluminum! Yay!!

[Gene]

Zep, congratulations on 2,000.

Gene

[utee94]

Cursh, if you're looking for simple L-shaped angle extrusions to serve as a molding for applications like going along the back edge of a countertop (thus, nor real curvature), then you can buy them fairly inexpensively at the big box stores or from several various online suppliers. I don't recall all of the suppliers, but I would start with McMaster-Carr or Online Metals or even Vintage Trailer Supply.

If you need long pieces that curve, then like Zep said, it can be pretty difficult. I'd think about trimming out using something else, like the various cove moldings, screen moldings, or even crown moldings made from highly flexible poluyurethane. These can be readily found at your big blue and orange box stores, and you can paint them out to complement your interior.

If you let us know the application, we might be able to offer some other ideas that will approximate what you really want.

-Marcus

[Cursh]

I was going to trim/attach my interior walls with it. so counter high up to the center line. I might just take my dremel to it to score it repeatedly so it will curve - see how that looks. I've got enough hidden angle needs to use up what I've already purchased.

[Zeppelinium]

Originally Posted by Cursh

I was going to trim/attach my interior walls with it. so counter high up to the center line. ...

Aha! This can be done, since you're only bending the extrusion in one direction. I doubt that scoring the channel will allow you to get smooth bends. You really need a shrinker.

When I do the same task, I've been lucky enough to have recovered all the edge pieces and just reuse them. The down side is that I make my walls out of 1/2" ply, so the channel is too narrow, so I have to slot the plywood to accept the edge piece.

I've also run into a problem in the 27' Overlander with the whole shell flexing when I hit a bad bump, and the plywood has come out of the edge piece, only to be chopped and splintered when the shell comes back to shape. (I think the 1/8" bakelite partitions that Airstream used tends to slip back in to the edge piece, so this kind of damage isn't seen, even though the shell is still flexing more than the edge piece can accommodate.) This is much less of a problem for the shorter models. But it does make me think of alternative ways to restrain the partitions, something with a deeper "slot", like two blocks of wood screwed to the shell on either side of the partition. (I use the word "blocks" loosely, here.)

Zep

[utee94]

In order to approximate a curve, you could slot the material and then cover it, as Carlos Ferguson did here for his window trim on his '62 Safari:




Zep--

I've been thinking about using thicker plywood on my bulkhead wall as well, so it's interesting to hear about the issues that come along with that. I too have all of my original curved u-channel edge pieces, so I'd need to slot the edge of the plywood to accomodate them, as you did. I wonder if then drilling holes and running screws/bolts all the way through the plywood/metal/plywood/metal sandwich would keep the bulkhead in place, or just act as a point stress load that would tear the materials apart?

Anyway, thanks for the insight, I always learn something when I read your posts.

-Marcus