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Old 01-12-2008, 12:06 PM   #57
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I like *that* you're trying to do something functional.
I don't know how I feel about the actual design, but I don't have to live with it

Thanks for keeping us posted.
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Old 01-12-2008, 12:20 PM   #58
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good summary crush

now that we're all up to speed lets get to the issues....

YOUR OLD HOUSE...

creating the 'feel' of your parents house is a nice concept...

but only for decor.

most houses are terrible examples of space utilization.

an a/s really IS a travel trailer, a land yacht, a space module, or conestoga wagon.

many of us have them BECAUSE they aren't like our houses....

virtually every surface, nook and system must be multipurpose, light, withstand movement and be self contained.

it aint' no stick house baby!

that's why so much time is spent on floor plans and layout, to get the MOST from the LEAST space.

and since every bit of hvac, plumbing and electrical is hidden INSIDE the shell....

and it's a shell that TRAVELS!

so layout and access for future repairs and reasonable vehicle dynamics is critical...

SOLAR

there are some great sites on mobile solar systems...you need to visit some of the RV solar sites (not home systems)

your solar panels options (collecting energy) are limited space to mount and DOLLARS.

this energy is gonna be stored in batteries for use and again space and WEIGHT are the issues....

for extended boondocking you'll need 3-500 lbs of battery, which is a LOT for this tiny trailer.

of course the batteries could be IN the tow vehicle but wiring is an issue.

FRAME

unless you know or wanna learn welding, get the frame done by pros....

EXTERIOR

rivets patches over the exterior 'issues' look cool imo and do reflect the miles and history.

polishing is ALL about pretty, none of these units started with a mirror polish...

just like NO fords started with 10 coats of candy apple red...

the coolest redo's i've seen have original weathered skins.

but dents and mishaps DO need to be repaired as they happen, BECAUSE of the need 2 keep the exterior SEALED up water tight...

zep is RIGHT about adding windows, more leaks, more cold, more heat, more issues....

like all good gypsy homes, incorporate the OUTDOORS in all your design issues....

seeing the deconstruction would have been valuable but...

this unit didn't have 3 tanks originally so you will be adding systems that only came in later years...

while visiting the factory or the shop near by are great ideas...

what you really need to do (besides reading ALL the rehab threads) is go to a RALLY....

and see the great work others have done...

cheers
2air'
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Old 01-12-2008, 12:39 PM   #59
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Noise of others opinions? replies to Smokeless Joe

The question as to whether older Airstreams should be restored or customized keeps coming up on this forum in different guises.

Here’s one example. (My own opinion appears in post #54).

Should older airstreams be restored OR customized?


Some of the self proclaimed purists out there will give you a hard time. Forgive them, for they will never understand you.

Its good to ask questions and better to carefully consider the replies. You will hear things you may not have thought about yet.

As a would be designer, you probably admire Apple. Addressing commencement at Stanford a couple of years ago Steve Jobs advised:

Don't let the noise of others' opinions drown out your own inner voice.



Oh Please!
Did not Curse ask for opinions about his project? yes

Is restoration vs redesign one for things to consider at the VERY beginning of the project? Everything must be considered.

Is RESTRAINT not one of the most important design exercises? Minimalism as it was used in your project?

THEY WILL NEVER UNDERSTAND YOU. Once again, OH PLEASE. Bad purist!

My opinion about the Iconic exterior is no less valuable then your own. When someone gets a vintage good body and wants to add porthole on the rear end I have an opinion about that.



This is starting to sound like curse is being cast as a victim being prosecuted by the purtian overlords. Curse asks for advice and all you guys can do is say is go for it. Whatever....He is going to need much advice but I think he has already made up his mind and in his own words has no emotional attachment to the shape and patina of the trailer. Burn him at the stake!

I love what your did to your trailer and many others on this forum. And have followed it for the last two years. Takes a long take to ponder the options and get it right does it not. As Cursh reads your posts he will begin to appreciate the work you have done.

But then he will discount it as something DWELL readers would like and not his style. (His Words)

Whatever.
Gary
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Old 01-12-2008, 12:45 PM   #60
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Cursh, I am not a "purist" myself. My main comments are about the trailer use vs. design/need of changing anything from its' original position it in your Safari. Also why it was laid out the way it was from the factory. Those comments were to help you realize that the balance of interior (weight) items was done to make the trailer as stable to tow as possible. The factory did not assemble these trailers to sit in a trailer park. They did however built "Park models" if that was what the purchaser wanted. Those models could be laid out different as they were not designed to be "on the road". If you go to the VAC (Vintage Airstream Club) site and do a search for the '67 Safari you can find (in the Archives) photos and interior layouts of your model. Here on the forums site there are many Safari 22 foot trailer owners from many different years that you can check out to see the photos of their trailers floorplan/layout. Best of all there are lots of people here to ask that have rebuilt/restored/upgraded what they own and would be very glad to answer any questions you have. No one here, except you, has the right to decide what works best for you! No one here wants you to fail in your efforts to bring this trailer back from the condition you found it in to useable and beautiful. Best of all everyone here knows with effort on your part that you will be very proud of the work that you are investing in this project! If... it is done wisely and with safety in mind. In the future we all would like you to see us down the road while you make some great memories in your A/S. So keep asking questions and use the search function often. Good Luck and Happy Trails, Ed
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Old 01-12-2008, 01:34 PM   #61
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Yup...number one rule in life...if you are goona sleep in it you ought to do whatever it takes to make it fit you. Old boats, old trailers, old cars...I love to see them prestine and originally restored...but there are lots of restored rigs out there...and if they are factory. Nothing wrong at all with building your rig to stand out! Yes, one want's to be sure the structure is not compromised, but style, layout and finish...even windows...it ought to talk to the owner. Picture "Extreme Homes" showing off a perfectly restored seventy three ranch...sleep time...

Frame off folks...keep with the plywood, but if you can use epoxy fire rated ply and you'll probably not need to replace again!

Sorry for the ramble...an idea does not have to be good for me to like it

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Old 01-12-2008, 03:47 PM   #62
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Some thoughts. Probably not helpful but...
Power requirements: You need power for...
  • Reading lights.
  • Some help with making or distributing heat
LED's are the obvious light source.

You'll note the absence of water distribution. We're used to electric water pumps, and we kind of take them for granted, but why not something like this (from a really quick google):solar or hand powered water pump

Water heaters are nice, but my family lived in South America for a couple of years without one. And those of us who've lived out of a tent for 3-4 weeks at a time are puzzled by the "400 lb of batteries" concept.

As far as personal evacuation... The sailboat guys go around the world without a ton of batteries, and nobody moons the sea in a storm I don't think. Another quick google: Zenith Model
a crummy with a hand pump.

Solar is a neat idea, especially if power requirements are kept in check. Even then, how about coupling it with a wind generator. There are a number of days with wind but no sun, or with sun but no wind, or with a little of each. Within the scope of the project, the wiring for both systems could be included, and a provision made for stowing the turbine.

I was thinking about the subfloor too... is it really structural? It might be.. either way, I've always thought that'd be an interesting place for some marine ply covered with WEST epoxy. You can get various finishes on the ply, such as teak, or whatever you'd want to use for a deck. Deck = floor. At least mostly.

Oh well, I'm sure you'd mostly thought of this sort of thing, but it costs me nothing to type it up
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Old 01-12-2008, 07:05 PM   #63
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looked into the trailer again today - I still have a black water tank that seems to be in good working order.
(funny the things you don't look for when someone tells you it isn't there)

I sat in the space and "felt out" the floor lay out and it feels really good - The huge pluss is that the Oven - refridgerator - and wood stove are all basically sitting on top of the axles.

We (my mechanic and I) mentally moved the entire layout around a couple of times. but ended up basically back where we started.

I took some interior pictures for me to start doing some photoshop work around, and I think everything is going to work out quite nicely.

I also looked at the frame and the only place I can find rust is the weight brace at the front door.

My concerns over the towability of this is probably low on the list of my concerns.

I don't suspect it will be finished by my road trip (probably have power and water at the most) and that is really the only time I would have enough time to move the thing all over the country.

After that - in a perfect world, Bebe and I would migrate like birds away from the cold weather, but that is being hopeful.

I'm sure my job and life will catch up to me at some point. and keep me in one spot.

Anyway - I am very very excited about this project and it looks like I have until the end of february to research extensively, so I should know loads more by then.

I will probabyl post design concepts in here from time to time, but this thread will probably be pretty dead until march.
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Old 01-12-2008, 07:23 PM   #64
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Cursh,

I've just read this entire tome, and I won't add anything to it that has already been said, as I'm not of a 'pile it on' mentality.

As far as the interior, you can do whatever but keep in mind that weight distribution is a key element of why Airstreams tow so well.

Oh, and speaking of towing...your statement "My concerns over the towability of this is probably low on the list of my concerns.".....well this really concerns ME!

You have already had a near death experience trying to tow this thing when you bought it. I would have to surmise that the brakes are worthless, the bearings shot, your axel is over, AND THIS IS NOT A CONCERN OF YOURS????

If you plan on towing your project, regardless of it's interior state, the above MUST BE ADDRESSED!!!! ..........or you WILL be a hazard on the road. Not just to yourself....but to the general motoring public as well.

Please believe me when I tell you that this is not a criticism, but a fact that you should consider FIRST!!!!!...... especially since you are talking about traveling with your GF to beat the winter(s).

If you still believe that you can tow this trailer anywhere you like in it's present state, PLEASE POST YOUR ITINERARY SO I WON'T BE IN AN AREA NEAR YOU.!!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks for your indulgence




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Old 01-12-2008, 07:31 PM   #65
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Another thought about solar is to use a tripod that you set up after you park... not permently mounted but rather portable. I did see a rally member just use a crate to lean a panel against to charge the ol battery. Seemed to work fine.
Good luck!
Marc
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Old 01-12-2008, 07:38 PM   #66
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Towing with an Audi

I freaked out when I saw your A4 totaled. I have been reading these posts for almost a year in preparation for towing my soon-to-be restored 16' Caravel. I've been an Audi person for 10 years now, and the only Audi's rated for towing are the allroad and the Q7. I have an allroad which has a 3300 lb. rating - and I'm still a little nervous.

I feel sorry for your poor Avant ... research is a good thing.
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Old 01-13-2008, 01:50 PM   #67
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Solar and Towing.

my thought on solar was to utilize the vintage awning (probably get 3 panels there).

All that would require would be for me to construct the Awning support with wind loads in mind, but that shouldn't be much of a task considering the rest of the project

leaning the solar panel against a crate (or a tripod) makes me nervous because PV panels aren't exactly built ford tough. As a younger person I will be spending a considerable amount of time away from my home working and such, and would hate to come home to $3000 worth of solar panels ruined and strewn across the yard.


I am going to preface this by saying that I am not in any way condoning my own actions or would I encourage anyone to make the same mistakes that I made - towing with an A4 with the available market hitches was and is a terrible idea

As far as towing is concerned I am going to go out on a limb here and say that I am the only person who has experience towing an airstream with an A4 Avant. (in questionable towing conditions)

There is a company in canada outfitting Jetta Wagons with the TDi engine to tow a new bambi. (which they have been doing without issue)

Just to throw out numbers the new bambi weighs minimum 2800lbs
The 2004 jetta wagon TDi weighs 3200 has 100hp and 177lbs tq and is front wheel drive.

My A4 Avant weighs in at 3500lbs has 220hp - 260lbs tq and is AWD

The audi had more than sufficient breaking power to easily stop the 1300lbs behind it, and in no way let the trailer control it. I am confident that with an appropriate hitch system installed (in adition to an EBC) my avant could easily and safely pull a new bambi. (just as its cousin the jetta wagon is already doing today.)

The concern now is going to be with the weight of my completed trailer.

I will never again put my safari behind my Audi without doing sufficient research, and preforming the appropriate modifications to both the trailer and the car.
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Old 01-13-2008, 02:00 PM   #68
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Sorry - after doing some more reserach I had to laugh



If someone is willing to insure a company that is doing this . . . then I am going to go out on a limb and say that they might be able to put my A4 in front of a wimpy 22ft'r

=)
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Old 01-13-2008, 02:22 PM   #69
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hi crush

solar panels mounted on tripods, tilted against crates or using other auxillary stands do work...

and the advantage is u can park the trailer in shade but still have solar...

so marc's suggest IS worth more consideration than u've given it so far...

i don't really get your 'awning' idea but putting them on top of the awning or otherwise attached to the awning isn't wise, actually the idea is very naive.

even leaving the awnings, main patio awning, out all day when away has issues.

wind happens quickly. they are made to withstand some but, unattended awnings often have bad endings....

you really are a LONG way from understanding the towing issues...

i've owned audis for 30 years and even towed with a few avants...

bike trailers, utility trailers, small sail boats and so on...

yes the a4 has good brakes but without trailer brakes on an rv you do NOT have control...

many many many rv/trailer accidents are a result of great tow vehicle brakes and poor/no trailer brakes...

this is all really well documented, painfully proven physics and everything!

so i'm not gonna explain it here.

you also don't understand the 'towing specifications' as most vehicle vendors list them...

again go read it's all there and we virtually all agree to the basics...

as an example the 'towing capacity' whatever it is...is REDUCED by the cargo/people/options IN the tow vehicle.

in other words a vehicle that lists '3500lb towing' reduces that figure by every POUND in the vehicle...

there are exceptions to this (the t'-rex platform) but u need to learn the general truths well to understand the exceptions.

in your early note you reported the 'speed' at which you were driving and implied it was 'slow'...

well again sorry bud but newbies towing at 50 or 55 or 60 are going rocket fast...

that's why the sh!t hits the fan so quickly while towing....

yes the canadian guys can fabricate a 'custom receiver' welded to the a4 unibody platform...

but you'll also need to buy the 3000$ hitch (which weight 250lbs) and promise never to go over 55 while towing...

oh yea and move to canada or otherwise jack your insurance liability issues...

i can see the force is strong in u but towing under canadian law and usa liability are way different.

for pcasa (the member considering towing with the allroad) the big issue is audi's reciever attachment/strenght and FRONTAL resistance/c.o.g. for a travel trailer...

a boat, or utility or popup trailer behind the allroad is MUCH different than a raised box (even one shaped like an a/s)

the allroad is a wonderful, powerful, great braking utility vehicle, but their is NO way i'd use one for towing an a/s...

perhaps 10 mile trips to the local park, or in europe where travel trailer specs/design and towing is different...

but NOT on north american interstates...not even if the audi and a/s were FREE...

again i've owned both audis and airstreams for 30 years...

cheers
2air'
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Old 01-13-2008, 02:38 PM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lewster
Cursh,

As far as the interior, you can do whatever but keep in mind that weight distribution is a key element of why Airstreams tow so well.

Oh, and speaking of towing...your statement "My concerns over the towability of this is probably low on the list of my concerns.".....well this really concerns ME!
I guess you didn't notice that in my experience with towing, having an unevenload is incredibly manageable (example having close to 50% of the weight left of center)

Quote:
Originally Posted by lewster
You have already had a near death experience trying to tow this thing when you bought it. I would have to surmise that the brakes are worthless, the bearings shot, your axel is over, AND THIS IS NOT A CONCERN OF YOURS????
I am sorry to have misled you, what I mean't was that I won't be towing on a weekily basis and therefor can deal with a slower trip once or twice a year

If you plan on towing your project, regardless of it's interior state, the above MUST BE ADDRESSED!!!! ..........or you WILL be a hazard on the road. Not just to yourself....but to the general motoring public as well.

Please believe me when I tell you that this is not a criticism, but a fact that you should consider FIRST!!!!!...... especially since you are talking about traveling with your GF to beat the winter(s).
I don't know what I have said or done that led to to believe that I have any intention of towing the trailer in its current state at all, much less with my girlfriend anywhere near it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lewster
If you still believe that you can tow this trailer anywhere you like in it's present state, PLEASE POST YOUR ITINERARY SO I WON'T BE IN AN AREA NEAR YOU.!!!!!!!!!!!
as I said, I don't know what I said that led you to believe that I would tow the airstream again in its current state, but even so - If you would kindly send me a pm or an email I will add you to the growing list of people who will be informed of my trailers every move.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lewster
Thanks for your indulgence
anytime




2Airsishuman

i understand I have worlds to learn and am dedicating the next 3 months to reserach. - thank you for your insight and direction for my research.
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