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Old 01-11-2008, 11:33 AM   #43
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well u r right about 1 thing....

Quote:
Originally Posted by safari62
...It is almost a religious following that look at the purity of what Wally Byam was attempting to create....
it looks like the drop in followers of sun myung moon, can be directly tired to the kooky a/s cult....

seems both messiahs had a thing for silly hats!

cheers
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Old 01-11-2008, 11:41 AM   #44
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Old 01-11-2008, 12:42 PM   #45
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Kooky..old...art students..?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2airishuman
well u r right about 1 thing....



it looks like the drop in followers of sun myung moon, can be directly tired to the kooky a/s cult....

seems both messiahs had a thing for silly hats!

cheers
2air'
2Air
Hey, I resemble that remark!
Okay, maybe religious was too strong a word. Just hoping cursh? steps back to study what his objectives are before running full steam at the old girl with saws-alls blazing in both hands.

There are many trailers out there to RESTORE or REDESIGN. There is a big difference in the approach and the final product.

Not that many vintage still here was the point. There is some connection to the Hot Rod group and motorcycle customizers. Would a REDESIGNED Airstream be like a Hot Rod? If so then it becomes a different vehicle then is intented purpose. Something new, gained and lost. So many questions.

I have to go kneel on bottle caps now.
Gary
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Old 01-11-2008, 01:01 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by safari62
I have to go kneel on bottle caps now.
Gary
LOL! I think participating in this thread serves as penance enough... you may skip the kneeling on bottle caps.
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Old 01-11-2008, 01:09 PM   #47
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hi '62

thanks for keeping it light here...

i agree with you 51%!

see ol' crush here gave us a heads up way back in september....

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f368...sis-35679.html

i though he was WAY over his head and WAY underestimating all the issues then.

i had visions of the unit done on television (in a week) where they screwed and glued carpet to walls!

so i 2 hate to see the old cans badly mangled, but he's paid for it (u didn't steal it right crush?) and now it's his...

it would have be fantastic IF he'd started here by...

-posting the original SCHOOL PROJECT objectives
-his preliminary idea and each revision based on the expert feedback of rehab'rs
-how the project would be evaluated by his instructors
-what plans he had for the unit AFTER school...

and so on.

but then this place would have REALLY seemed like a classroom with 1 student and...

1000s of knowitalls (oh i mean teachers)

the time to harass him was months ago, now he is knee deep in IT.

and we don't wanna be responsible 4 him quit'n school and hawking pencils to tourists...

if you look at his original posts he was/is all over the map with ideas, functions, tow vehicles and so on...

but at least he's here, now, so help this young'n get er done!

besides when i was in college (the first time) i was seldom sober enough to read, much less write....

there's a fine line between preachin' and teachin'...

praise wally and pass the rivets!

it's art school and he needs more than a c+ for his efforts...

cheers
2air'
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Old 01-11-2008, 01:14 PM   #48
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I think I saw that top ornament on the hood of a cadillac a while back! [Oh yeah, Bob! Only the more wizened (older) of us will get the Wizard reference.] They just don't go back to watch our version of classic movies anymore unless you show 'em on the side of an A/S to a captive audience! It has been my experience with the grandkids that they don't even want to sit thru the Black & White segments of that movie. Try explaining B&W television or Pong to the high tech video kids of today. They look at you as if you have three heads.
That said, The re-design if thought thru could be great when looking at form and function of the interior. However you just cannot expect to re-situate the current positioning of the blacktank or fresh tank without checking for load and stress factors caused by the new design. De-stablizing the floor structure to cut a tank thru the floor is asking for disaster. Moreover moving balanced load items to make interior look more modern could cause the trailer to track wildly deferent from what it originally did. The reason the skins looked warped were probably caused by towing the trailer with many missing interior skin panels. This will cause the shell to be unstable and flex more side to side as well as up and down. The monocoupe design of the trailer as Wally saw it was that the frame and floor were a platform but the shells rigidity came from how the interior/ribs/exterior supported each other and still were made light enough to make them easily towable. This came from years of experience with airplane design influences. (Making them strong yet light.) When you move things around in the interior you must plan on how the overall trailer will be affected by the move. Or you must start from scratch and allow for all these factors before setting up to re-design. I don't mean to step on your toes here but the designers thought out each interior layout for each size trailer based on wheel base, gross vehicle weight, weight distribution, and stress. You need to do the same. It can be done but don't try to use any shortcuts to sound design. Hope you will keep us updated on your processes and ideas. Don't forget to take the time to think it through. Good Luck. Happy Trails, Ed
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Old 01-11-2008, 02:20 PM   #49
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but at least he's here, now, so help this young'n get er done!

2Air has the right attitude. Crush is from the ''I want it and I want it now!'' generation. He'll learn soon enough that to rebuild an Airstream isn't like a home makeover show on HGTV.

Crush, I am currently in the throes of a restoration. I happen to have a 3'' pile of printouts from various threads on this site. I refer to them, review all the comments, and decide the best course of action before launching into the next phase. As an art student, it's going to be a little tough to get acquainted with mechanical, electrical, plumbing, and structural aspects of that little silver capsule. I wish we had this as a project when I was in architecture school!
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Old 01-11-2008, 02:55 PM   #50
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Cursh,

I would suggest something that could help you more than anything. You live in Ohio, correct?

Where are Airstreams built? OHIO
Who is one of the best at damage repair? P&S
Where is P&S located? OHIO

In your backyard, you have two places that either build them or repair them after a major wreck has happened.

Maybe you could do a short "Internship" at each place over the next month, learning, repairing and understanding how the pros build and repair them??

I've even asked Steve at P&S if they offered a class on polishing. My guess, if you offer your time (free) they may take you up on the offer.

When I'm done working for a living, I'll be the first in line for that Internship!
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Old 01-11-2008, 03:15 PM   #51
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Cursh,

Have you taken the Airstream Factory tour? This may give you insight into the building process of newer Airstreams, and could help you in doing repairs.

Steve
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Old 01-11-2008, 07:21 PM   #52
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Cursh
Steve has an excellent idea. An Airstream Tour and Henshen Axle Plant tour.
Both are there together. Oh AS Plant tours are MON/Thursday 2:00pm sharp.
Fridays they go home at 2. P&S Trailer are very nice people.
It may change your prospective of what U have in that little trailer.
When I saw how that hitch was mounted, why did I know what the outcome would be without even seeing the next pic,of course Im old I dont know nuffin. U know Cursh I have to give U Karma for having guts enough to own up to your mistakes and with pictures even.
Good Luck
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Old 01-11-2008, 08:12 PM   #53
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Hey Cush.

Don't give up! THere's no shortage of opinions on theforums! I do agree that reading as many threads as possible is a good idea. THere's several things I would do differently on mine (I think you said you read my thread. Hope you liked it!) It's a learning experience, though. And I can't wait to find the time to work on it again!

A couple of thoughts about windows and portholes. I actually like the 2 portholes on theback, but I think you're going to have a heck of a time getting them to seal. WhenI installed the porthole in the door of my trailer, it flattens the aluminum pretty significantly to seal it, and that's on teh side. One thing I considered was putting in 12" wide skylights down the spine of the trailer BUT leaving the ribs. THose are SO important structurally. Don't discredit that.

I love the sketches, though. Don't be afraid to ask questions!

Good luck!

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Old 01-12-2008, 10:02 AM   #54
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Wow wow wow - this is such a turn around from the treatment I received yesterday (perhaps its because I got some sleep)

I am going to respond in my next post - I'll address the wonderful points brought up by people individually and edit. This is a lot to deal with, but I love all of this information (I thrive on it)

Firstly - I am with Bahbu today and will be mocking up my interior lay out to make sure its somehting I can live with While doing this I will think about weight and tracking. I have towed horses many many times as a kid (guess I still am a kid) and the common knowledge there was to keep the weight imbalance to a minimum. But with horses you would often tow just one horse and he would always go behind the driver (is that right? It was years ago, and it wasn't ever anything I heard from someone professional or anything, just my cousins).

I guess my worst was towing a 1400 lbs horse by him self, and it didn't seem that bad. That situation (ive never weighed that trailer) left me with about 50% of the total trailer weight on the outside edge of the trailer. I'm sure I can keep any imbalance well under 1400 lbs.


What is involved with checking/replacing the axles?

What is the best way to inspect/test the brakes?

(just talked to my friend who is a mechanic and he informed me that every trailer he has ever seen has the same brakes you would have on a car - they are just electronically actuated. so I should be able to take care of the brakes. I left this in here for anyone who might have had a similar question)

I'm going to be taking extensive pictures of the frame today to see what you guys think.

For everyone who has done this - (and I know every job is different) how long do you think it would take to "sound the frame" (brakes and axles not included) I will be working two 8-10 hour days a week, every week when the shell is off. (maybe longer as I will have lights and a full garage, but I doubt I can grind that hard - we will see though. I can work for days on end (literally) if I am passionate about the work I am doing.

Also 2airishuman suggested that I post up my statement of intent or project brief.

Originally this was going to be my senior thesis - and while everyone was convinced I couldn't do it. I had faith. (some of my classmates in the past have created entire pedal car commuters from scratch in their basements with an old swing set, and iron and an industrial pack of zip ties in 3 months)

you were right - this project is more than a 3 week project.

I also realized that what was going to be accepted in the design community as "good design" would look like it was out of dwell magazine and wouldn't be the type of thing I wanted to live in.





This picture made me realize the direction I wanted to take Bahbu in.

I wanted to redesign this airstream based on the house I grew up in. I wanted to make it feel like a home. I didn't want it to feel cheap or flimsy. I didn't want it to feel like a travel trailer.

I wanted it to be a mini 140sqft version of my parents house.

That would take longer than 6 months, so I revised my thesis to be an exploration into the product opportunities in the cycling industry as they pertain to the emerging hip youth culture as a cycling market.

Hopefully I will be able to use my thesis to start a product company that will ensure that I will never have to sit behind anyone elses desk but my own ever again.



But I digress.



The airstream project. (now its personal)

The objective:
To redesign and implement an interior for a gutted 1967 safari for a young couple that has minimum to negative power draw, and is an acceptable full time living space for all US climates.

More specifically this involves small objectives.
1.Enough solar draw to power the normal draw of a travel trailer, Charge a 12" powerbook once a day, and a small vintage stereo system on low to medium volume for 6-8 hours a day.
2. A full sized shower that i do not feel cramped in - this basically just means that the showerhead is placed higher than the top of my head.
3. a kitchen area large enough to cook comfortably in (i have lived in Manhattan, and had no problems there, my needs aren't great)
4. Allows for expansion to water collection (call me crazy) in preparation for the unlikely case of an apocalypse (break down in our nations infrastructure)

I know number 4 is crazy - but I would like the peace of mind that if I had to - I could park in a field and not worry about how I am going to get water, or cook dinner.



I figure I should get this out of the way right now. (for the purist and self proclaimed "cultists")

I have no intention of restoring, polishing, or improving the exterior of this airstream in any way shape or form. - there is a tear in the skin on the street side that will probably be patched or welded.

I have no intention of preserving this "sacred vintage" as wally intended it.

I have recently reached a sort of Zen self realization about the things I own. If I am overly worried about anything I own getting molested or destroyed by myself or one of my friends, then its not worth me owning. If someone backs into the airstream trying to park and dents it, I will not stress over it or fix it.

In a sense cosmetic damage is kind of a visual history. There is something wrong in my mind in covering it up or fixing it and removing that history from the product. As long as the product still functions, I will not fix any aesthetic defects.

I know this is going to be hard for a lot of you to deal with.

Also - as far as the vintage being "unmolested" this trailer is skin and bones. I have no concept of what it looked like, and to try to recreate that seems like the waste of a perfectly good opportunity for me to make something my own and work best for me. What I gathered in september was that I should find a stripped trailer to work with so as to not destroy a prime subject for restoration. I tried to accommodate =)

Gary -
the hot rod approach is exactly what is going on here. there will obviously be losses along the way, but the beatuy will be that i am in control of what I am losing and what I am gaining. I'm really excited about the process.


Ed - I appreciate the history into the Airstreams - I love the history of things. I also wasn't aware that the lack of interior shell would effect towing. If I get to the point that I need to move it again I might start asking questions about bracing. I will definitely not move it again without reinforcing the shell. The interior tanks are going to stay in the floor and will be on either side of the axle. Unfortunately I have NO idea how the thing was originally together as I came into this process much later that that - I'm finding I have to research how to do everything from scratch. Its a bit tedious, but I think Ill have a better option to make improvements along the way.

Ambie '64 - As a product design professional, I have extensive experience with the mechanics of things (if its not going to work, I need to figure that out BEFORE i sent things off to the engineer as to not waste his, my, and the companies time, its hardly art) - my biggest problem I think is that I didn't get to take it a part and see the "why"


Roger - I knew of the airstream factory, and was planning on spending a weekend up there "soaking things in" but this P&S place is new to me. Perhaps it makes more sense for me to hand off my frame to them and let them work their magic. i know it would cost more, but it would reduce my scope and offer me a strong foundation to work on. I would hate to half arse the frame and endanger the entire project. I will be giving them a call, thank you.

Roger -
thanks for the understanding. Not saying old people aren't a wealth of knowledge. They just seem to be uncomfortable with youngsters doing anything worth doing. =) I appreciate the pointers, and think P&S might be getting at least a part of Bahbu to work on

JP- i loved your thread, and it is offering a lot for me to learn from. I don't plan on touching any of the ribs, and am still considering the skylight, but Think Malcolm was onto something when he brought up the "ships prisms" They would be structrually and visually minimally invasive (and shouldn't mess up insulation properties at all), and I could stud that wall with a couple to get a nice natrual sun light in the morning. I haven't abandoned sky lights yet though and appreciate your input.


All in all - thank you for all the great input - I'll get back to you with more pictures later tonight.

I hope I didn't ruffle any feathers with my decision not to polish this thing back up to new and replace body panels. Its just a personal philosophy

-Ben
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Old 01-12-2008, 10:34 AM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cursh
Wow wow wow - this is such a turn around from the treatment I received yesterday (perhaps its because I got some sleep)
Hey Ben,

I have to say I don't appreciate your comments. Every comment you received, yesterday and today, was offered in the best interests of you and those that may come in contact with you and your trailer.

Please be considerate of those that take the time to offer a thoughtful response.
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Old 01-12-2008, 11:20 AM   #56
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Cursh,

You had a not so smart, even scary, start but it will finish well because you have a ton of ideas and a willingness to have them jousted about in the public arena.

The question as to whether older Airstreams should be restored or customized keeps coming up on this forum in different guises.

Here’s one example. (My own opinion appears in post #54).

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f232...d-10858-4.html


Some of the self proclaimed purists out there will give you a hard time. Forgive them, for they will never understand you.

Its good to ask questions and better to carefully consider the replies. You will hear things you may not have thought about yet.

As a would be designer, you probably admire Apple. Addressing commencement at Stanford a couple of years ago Steve Jobs advised:

Don't let the noise of others' opinions drown out your own inner voice.

Here’s the full text of his address:

Text of Steve Jobs' Commencement address (2005)...


I’m doing some non-traditional things in my “contemporization” as well. Here’s a link to my thread:

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f227...ase-18448.html


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