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Old 11-15-2008, 08:39 PM   #155
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If you move the stove, are you going to move the exhaust fan and oven vent as well? That seems like a lot of work!
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Old 11-15-2008, 09:17 PM   #156
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you might consider moving the oven under the front window, depending on the shape/size of your water tank, you might be able to do both with no problem, then perhaps put the refrigerator where the range was in your design (or maybe a nice pantry or something). I'd hate to have a hot surface right next to the door, particularly if people are wanting in and out of the trailer while you are cooking.
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Old 11-15-2008, 09:37 PM   #157
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As post 146 and your mockup suggest there where early 60's layouts per your drawing. Included is a drawing of my 62' Safari as original with only the old refrigerator replaced with a smaller and counter height version in the same place.
This layout has proven to be excellent for us and includes three separate partitioned areas in a 22' trailer. Stove is on streetside with a fold over counter that expands counter space when needed. Water tank is under mid bed.
Having the interior folding screen dividers is always handy as window curtains can remain open providing air circulation and partitions used for privacy instead.
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Old 11-16-2008, 01:20 AM   #158
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Cameron - I was planning on moving the vent fan to over the stove but piping exhaust through the overhead storage to the original hole. I lose a bit of storage this way, but I think I more than make up for it with storage from under the bed.

I generally am trying not to move the through the "hull" fittings because of the huge amount of work that would require - which locks down my fridge and water tank.

Goransons - thats a good point - I will be sure to put that on the con list for this layout. There are a lot of pros and cons for both layouts so far and I think I have to just keep weighing them.

As always - this isn't set in stone (which is why I post these ideas up - I get such fantastic feedback from all of you)

62 - great plan. I was adapting mine from some 24' tradewinds, but was really "missing" those extra 2' Man what I would give for another 6" in length =)

Its good to see how it was one in 22' - I'll see what I can do with that to make it fit my absolutes (no convertable bed, and maintain fridge placement)

or maybe I could exhaust the fridge through the original stove vent and vice versa =)

decisions decision
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Old 11-16-2008, 06:51 PM   #159
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I'm wondering about how the weight of all these things is balanced. Thus, if the bed is one one side, perhaps the bathroom needs to be mostly on the other. It's fairly obvious that one way to go with the kitchen is to have the refrigerator opposite the stove and pretty much in the center over the wheels.

The water tanks seem best in the center to keep that weight over the wheels and not at either end where it can stress the frame and not have too much weight either on the tongue or out at the bumper. All the drains and toilet should have as little pipe as possible and thus should be close to the tanks. The toilet should be over the black tank to prevent nasty stuff from sticking in the drain pipe. A direct drop means a lot less water usage. Any pipes under the floor have to get some heat to prevent ice buildup, so they should be short and have an angle (1/8" per foot I think is the standard), thus a long drain could drop too much to enter the waste tanks at the top.

All this is less important if you never want to tow it, but you never know what's next or about who will own it later. Weight and plumbing considerations limit floor plans and getting ideas from the various floor plans Airstreams uses will help.

Gene
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Old 11-16-2008, 08:30 PM   #160
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Quote:
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...Any pipes under the floor have to get some heat to prevent ice buildup, so they should be short and have an angle (1/8" per foot I think is the standard), thus a long drain could drop too much to enter the waste tanks at the top.
...Gene
I don't think you can rely on the 1/8" per foot being adequate if you are towing and camping. It's probably OK for the sink--who cares if once in awhile the drain pipe is mostly full? Well, I do know one time--if it's bitter cold you need to make sure there is anti-freeze in any place where water pools, like the J-traps. So if the drains are partially full, that makes it a little bit harder to keep the pipes from freezing.

It's a bigger issue when you think about the hot and cold supply lines, I think you need drain valves in both ends of the trailer in order to ensure an ability to drain them at any time. Then just lay the lines either sloping down or level and as long as you don't have any reversals of slope where water would pool, you're OK.

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Old 11-17-2008, 10:01 AM   #161
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I think Zep is correct. The standard for houses (1/8" per foot) is based on hard pipe which won't sag, like ABS or cast iron. You won't use cast iron in a trailer and for waste pipe (toilet) if it goes straight down to the black water tank, no problem. ABS or PVC is ok for sink or shower drains and any long runs should be supported to make sure there is no sag. I think Airstream uses PEX for supply lines and they are more flexible and should be supported. The shorter the lines, the less potential for a problem.

You have to assume that at some time you will drain everything and the trailer won't be heated, so preventing pools of water is very important.

You said at one point you wanted to use a wood stove. How would you direct heat to the water tanks? How do you keep the fire going if you are gone for a half a day or more? Have you ever tried to use frozen toothpaste? You have to have a second heating to make sure things don't freeze or move to Miami.

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Old 11-19-2008, 12:18 PM   #162
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Woodstove Water-Heater Coil by Thermo-Bilt, stainless steel, for wood stove, corn stove, coal stove.

I found this website for woodstove heat recovery.
Of course Nancy and I live way south of y'all.
We were thinking of a wood fired hot tub for a cabin.

Bill
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Old 11-19-2008, 03:50 PM   #163
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Gosh ...

.... I wandered away for a year and it will take me 5 more to catch up with the forums!

Wow, a lot has happened to Cursh since he & a buddy came to spend the night & take a look at all the Airstreams littering my driveway. Dummy, he wasn't scared off then, can't figure out why.

So glad that we have a new scapegoat. For awhile there, it was ME. (Of course, there were only 5,000 people to pick on me back when I joined the forums, and I didn't publicize every blond-bunny towing trick I pulled!)

Here's my contribution to the discussion: Just because a bungee cord has held yer door shut from Texas to Georgia doesn't mean that it will hold for just 40 more miles.

Also, my redesigned 'Streams are going to have as few cooking amenities as possible. Even in my house, which has been under demolition for 3 years, I cook up a storm with just the m'wave & a large electric skillet. If I want to bake cookies, we use my b'friend's house. But I'm also vegetarian. Do carnivores need burners & ovens?

Oh wait -- here's another way to test yer theories, Ben: I figure that it's easier to try off-the-grid living when you have the option of being on the grid, so I have had Nicor turn off my gas until I cry Uncle. So I have no forced-air heat or hot water for the moment. It's funny the things you adapt to, the things you miss ... but all good knowledge for how to design your life when not buying into the societal norms even creative thinkers take for granted.

So hi all! And Ben, I hope I see you & an Airstream pulling into my courtesy parking sometime soon (sounds vulgar but would've sounded worse if I'd said "Silver Bullet" so deal ....)
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Old 11-19-2008, 04:23 PM   #164
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So glad that we have a new scapegoat. For awhile there, it was ME.
Don't worry, we're all scapegoats from time to time.

Gene
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Old 11-19-2008, 06:15 PM   #165
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arteacherz View Post
Woodstove Water-Heater Coil by Thermo-Bilt, stainless steel, for wood stove, corn stove, coal stove.

I found this website for woodstove heat recovery.
Of course Nancy and I live way south of y'all.
We were thinking of a wood fired hot tub for a cabin.

Bill
Check this out:

http://cedartubs.com/chofu.html
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Old 11-19-2008, 07:50 PM   #166
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Having the oven/range next to the entry door is not a problem. It was the standard arrangement for our 25' Excella. We've never had a complaint with it in that location. Note: you don't need a lot of cabinets to have an efficient kitchen.
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Old 11-25-2008, 02:45 PM   #167
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Summer =) good to hear from you. I'm currently playing the "no propane" game simple because I haven't run the lines yet. =) a space heater is in my imediate future to be sure.

Question of the day - Heating the airstream

Is there an electric vented replacement for my propane vented heater?

the one thing I don't have is my original propane heater, and unfortunately my stove is currently going to cover the vent hole.

If I relocate the heater slightly back (towards the axles) would it be problematic to bend the vent pipes? (I can't figure out why it would, but maybe someone else knows)

I'm a little flustered with all of the vent placements, but as much as I look at the other (old) floor plan it just looks inefficient and wrong.
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Old 11-25-2008, 02:52 PM   #168
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If you are using an electric heater venting is not required. If you are installing a new propane heater and are proposing to vent remotely from the unit itself, that will be a question for the manufacturer of the heater. As an example, gas fireplaces are designed to be direct vented or remote vented, but there are required rises and runs for the vents, if you are venting remotely. There is science behind these numbers and I would want to be certain that the manufacturer of your propane heater has some input into this.
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