How common is this type of damage?

[Jasper Ash]

Here are a few photos of similar damage or creased aluminum on the front of my new 27' FB in the same area around the front door hatch compartment. This dent or crease was already here when we took delivery on a factory order Airstream. I was told that the new models are brought in on a large flatbed, not towed. This makes me question the posts about improper hitching.






Looks like a design flaw to me. Who knows... maybe it was towed down from Jackson Center with too big a truck and too big a hitch. I'm reaching out to Airstream for feedback. I'm not in a hurry to tow the Airstream 1000 miles for service at The Mothership.

[Pencilpusher]

I had the same problem on my 2018 27FB with the queen bed. My dealer told me they see this all the time and it is a design flaw as there are no supporting struts around the door which makes the areas around the door susceptible to flexing and bowing. Airstream at first said the trailer must have been dropped or bottomed out to cause the damage and was not going to cover it under the warranty. I pressed the issue and Airstream ultimately paid to have it fixed. I had my dealer put in supporting struts around the door frame and I have had no recurring problems. Definitely a design issue that has obviously not been corrected by Airstream.

[Jasper Ash]

I’m glad to hear there is other repair options. I don’t mind the little dent, it’s not that noticeable. I just want to prevent it from getting worse and avoid any leaks as a result. Thanks for the feedback!

[dmbecke]

I’ve heard if you over hitch by using much stronger bars then needed, it can create stress marks where the A-frame goes under the aluminum body.

[Caffeinated]

Originally Posted by Pencilpusher

I had the same problem on my 2018 27FB with the queen bed. My dealer told me they see this all the time and it is a design flaw as there are no supporting struts around the door which makes the areas around the door susceptible to flexing and bowing. Airstream at first said the trailer must have been dropped or bottomed out to cause the damage and was not going to cover it under the warranty. I pressed the issue and Airstream ultimately paid to have it fixed. I had my dealer put in supporting struts around the door frame and I have had no recurring problems. Definitely a design issue that has obviously not been corrected by Airstream.

My 2015 FC FBQ doesn’t have this “design flaw”.

Mike

[Mikebrady62]

Jasper Ash,
Is yours a queen or twin bed?
Does anyone know if this issue effects both bed set ups on the 27'?

Pencilpusher,
Could you post a picture of the struts repairing yours?

Thanks too you all!

[CDONA]

I have only run 1000# bars, but I have tried one link tighter for the chain.
I do have one missing buck rivet.

It does seem to porpoise more with a tighter pull on the bar.

I don't think it is stab jacks doing this, I watch the door latch over the pin when leveling to make sure I'm not twisting. I don't have a door slam issue anymore, just a light double click.

[Jasper Ash]

Originally Posted by Mikebrady62

Jasper Ash,
Is yours a queen or twin bed?
Does anyone know if this issue effects both bed set ups on the 27'?

Pencilpusher,
Could you post a picture of the struts repairing yours?

Thanks too you all!

I have a queen model. I’m convinced it’s a bit of a design flaw. Sounds like proper hitching is how you avoid this, but the dealer set me up with 14k bars on the Equalizer hitch they sold to me. They didn’t have a discussion with me about what bars or weight rating I might want or need... They just set me up with a 1,400/14,000 lb. system. This has to be over hitched for a 27FB with GVWR of 7,600 pounds on a Toyota Tundra. With that said, you would think that dealers would know how to set the customer up with the proper weight distribution system to avoid issues like this.

It’s also worth noting that the damage on my Airstream was already there, prior to being hitched up to my truck. So that still leaves me to think it’s a design flaw. The trailer was supposed to be shipped down to the dealer on a flatbed (or so I’ve been told by the dealer). So how did this damage happen? This area may just simply be weak because of the placement of the door.

I also noticed a few other 27FB models at the dealer with the same damage, in the same location. Doesn’t sound like it happens to everyone but it’s frequent enough to be related to the design in my opinion.

Pencilpusher, I too would love to see photos of the struts the dealer installed to reinforce the area under the front access hatch. I would be happy with this repair. Thanks!

[ROBERT CROSS]

Do all the effected trailers have that big door across the front?
Semi Design flaw?

Too stiff wd bars could also be in the equation.
With a 1200lb TW(un-hitched), I went from 1400 to 1000lb bars using a better designed hitch receiver I can transfer all the weight needed with a very compliant ride.
860lb receiver wt with WD set
560 to the FA
160 to the AS
720 moved.

Bob
🇺🇸

[66Overlander]

Front end separation (i.e. the body pulling loose from the frame) has been an Airstream problem since the 1950s. I have read Wally Byam comments that pretty much every trailer on the 1959-60 Arfrican Caravan had this type of damage and that Airstream should beef up the front hold down plate on the next years models to resolve it. You can tell Airstreams with a front hold down plate by a double row of bucked rivets right where front hatch is located on current front bedroom Airstream models. The plate and large number of bucked rivets resist the "separation" forces observed on those vintage Airstreams, as well as on certain newer models. I know of two or three people with 2017+ 30' Classics that are also seeing front connection problems without the presence of a front hatch. The solution in each case was for Airstream to beef up the body to frame connection between the inner and outer front skins.

In the case being discussed in this thread, the damage being seen is more of a "compression" type failure, but is in reality related to the same issue that was identified in the 1950s. The compression failure is made worse by the lack of a hold down plate and dual row of rivets which, if present, would allow the forces to be better distributed to the front skin. The earliest front bedroom models had square corners on the front hatch and sometimes exhibited cracks emanating from the corners, which act as "stress risers". At least the current front hatch had rounded corners.

The issue with these front bedroom models with the front hatch and lack of a beefy hold down plate is made worse by using heavy duty weight bars, especially on heavy duty trucks, and especially when cranked down tight to transfer at lot of hitch weight. Maybe things are OK running straight down the road (or maybe not), but whenever the truck and trailer combo negotiates a dip in the road or enters a steep driveway, massive bending forces will be applied to the trailer tongue by the weight bars. This is what is causing the crinkles at the corners of the front hatch. I think the variety of different weight distribution hitch designs, weight bar ratings, tow vehicle ratings, and how tight the bars are tensioned may help explain why some are seeing this and others are not. I think exposure to road dips is just as important and likely that varies from user to user quite a bit. I am a strong believer in using the lightest weight bars necessary to get the job done.

[rideair]

This answer from Joe below should be looked at like the old "EF Hutton" commercial:

"The issue with these front bedroom models with the front hatch and lack of a beefy hold down plate is made worse by using heavy duty weight bars, especially on heavy duty trucks, and especially when cranked down tight to transfer at lot of hitch weight. Maybe things are OK running straight down the road (or maybe not), but whenever the truck and trailer combo negotiates a dip in the road or enters a steep driveway, massive bending forces will be applied to the trailer tongue by the weight bars. This is what is causing the crinkles at the corners of the front hatch. I think the variety of different weight distribution hitch designs, weight bar ratings, tow vehicle ratings, and how tight the bars are tensioned may help explain why some are seeing this and others are not. I think exposure to road dips is just as important and likely that varies from user to user quite a bit. I am a strong believer in using the lightest weight bars necessary to get the job done."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_ygqPepLjM

[Ray Eklund]

I had used the Equalizer Hitch with 1,000# bars with a 25 foot rear bed 2014 International, towed with a 2012 Tundra 4x4, 5.7L engine, Crew Max with shell. Trying to level the Trailer and bring the front of the Tundra down, as the rear end sat lower and the leaf springs were nearly flat. Increasing the bar pressure did not bring the front end of the Tundra down, or the rear end, up. The hitch to trailer was under a lot of tension just trying to get everything as close to level as possible.

Not possible in my case. I reduced the tension of the 1,000# bars and trailer and tow vehicle were as well adjusted as possible, without the excessive tension of the bars, which took plenty of effort to swing the bars over. The anti sway squeal of the bars was severe when attempting to find a 'sweet spot'.

Towing the 25 foot International and the current 27 foot International Front Bed with my current F350 4x4 diesel Ford with shell required very little bar tension. 66Overlander expressed his opinion very well in this respect. Although I have the 1,000# bars.

The 27 foot International front bed being towed by the F350 requires very little spring bar tension to maintain the trailer down an inch or so up front, the pickup is level. When the spring bars are rotated to the L brackets... very little tension without having to lift the front of the hitch far. With the Tundra, the front lift needed to be higher and still I needed to physcially pull up the bar to swing to the L Bracket.

I have heard that with the F250/350 Airstreams up to 25 / 27 feet can be towed on the 'Ball'. I have not tried this, but it took me some time working with the adjustments of the shank/hitch and the L Brackets of my current Equalizer Hitch. I also went to the 3 inch shank, replacing the 2 1/2 inch shank used in F150's and Tundras. I kept the 2 1/2 inch shank in the even I changed vehicle or trailer in the future.

I have no sway. No squeal of the L Brackets when turning (although I do grease mine as some do and some do not). There is no up and down movement of the trailer or tow vehicle out of what I have experienced towing any of the trailer and tow vehicles since 2006. The 'driver's side' of the Airstream on the 25 foot and the 27 foot, as I am trying to recall, is about 1/2 inch lower Left to Right once ready to tow. This I have noticed in the past that the left side of the trailer is the side that sits lower a fraction of an inch, always.

This has been my experience. I have not noticed the compression damages seen on this thread, but now aware and will watch for any changes. I never heard of this before and appreciate that it has come up to date.

I had always depended on the Dealership to offer me the best options. Thanks for giving me a heads up and I will report any changes during this years travel.

[Jasper Ash]

Thanks for the additional feedback!

I’m considering dropping down to 1,200/12,000 WD bars and hitch head to hopefully keep the stress crease from getting worse. Can anyone suggest a WD setup for my 27FB and 2017 Toyota Tundra 5.7? My tongue weight, theoretically, should be no more than 1,100 lbs. Based on what I’m reading... I can safely tow my trailer with a WD setup rated at 1,000/10,000 lbs?

I’m currently on the 1,400/14,000 setup that the dealer installed. I feel like it towed very well. I didn’t notice a feeling of the trailer getting beat up and the whole rig looks perfectly level when hitched up.

[PSU1981]

Originally Posted by Jasper Ash

Thanks for the additional feedback!

I’m considering dropping down to 1,200/12,000 WD bars and hitch head to hopefully keep the stress crease from getting worse. Can anyone suggest a WD setup for my 27FB and 2017 Toyota Tundra 5.7? My tongue weight, theoretically, should be no more than 1,100 lbs. Based on what I’m reading... I can safely tow my trailer with a WD setup rated at 1,000/10,000 lbs?

I’m currently on the 1,400/14,000 setup that the dealer installed. I feel like it towed very well. I didn’t notice a feeling of the trailer getting beat up and the whole rig looks perfectly level when hitched up.

I have a 2015 27FB FC pulled with 2015 Tundra with 1000# equalizer bars - got AS new & have been pulling for 5 years smoothly with no problems. Sure don’t want a stress / compression crease. Thanks for bringing this topic up - never heard of this before.

[Jasper Ash]

Originally Posted by PSU1981

I have a 2015 27FB FC pulled with 2015 Tundra with 1000# equalizer bars - got AS new & have been pulling for 5 years smoothly with no problems. Sure don’t want a stress / compression crease. Thanks for bringing this topic up - never heard of this before.

Thanks! I might just bite the bullet and go for a 1000 lb hitch setup.

Now that I know what I’m looking for... I see it a lot when scrolling through Instagram and looking at other poster’s photos of their front hatch model trailers. It’s most often in the same place as mine; below the front hatch on the curbside. I’ll compile photos from others online and post them for others to review. It’s clearly somewhat common just not pointed out as often as those experiencing the issue on this thread.

[guskmg]

For front/rear end separation, it is the frame flexing, not the shell. Why? Maybe the modular cross section of the frame is not heavy enough for the given length. Through the years the GVW has grown, but the shell strength has probably lagged. Look at Avions, SilverStreaks, and Streamlines, no separation from frame flex. All had heavier duty frames for a given length, therefore much less flexing. All are of monocoque construction. They all were heavier duty in the above order as listed. The basic problem is the shell does not flex with the frame and the weaker point gives in to the upward or downward force (bottom of the frame pulls away from the shell or the frame pushes up into the shell). On rear end separations, I have noticed it is not the Olympic or bucked rivets that fail, they just simply pull and tear their way through the skin in a downward motion. Longer Avions and SilverStreaks usually exhibit a 45 degree crack at the upward and forward corner of the entry door. Only Airstream and Streamline skinned the inside of their trailers with aluminum, thus stiffing up the shell, therefore no cracks. Some Airstreams had cracks emanating from the corners of the battery boxes due to no support under the battery holder bottoms, but that's another matter. Mine was repaired under goodwill after the warranty expired.
guskmg

[rideair]

Jasper Ash,

I've found WD systems are often misunderstood in how to set them up correctly, even from those who sell them.

It's a combo of a few things, 1. "ball height", 2. head angle/pitch, 3. WD Bar weight rating.

Seen many of folk keep getting heavy weight bars, when all they needed was to adjust the angle/pitch of the hitch-head or change the ball height. Before it's over with at the connection point, they have "no-flex" in the connection, and start popping rivets, bending trailer A-Frames/tongues, cracking/bending aluminum.

Not saying that's the case with you, but before spending a bunch of cash, I'd make sure what you're planning to purchase is what you really need.

Good Luck,

[aftermath]

Thanks RideAir. You really summed it up nicely. There are many factors in setting up your hitch correctly. I am pulling a 2006 25FB with my 2017 Tundra but used my 2008 Tundra before. Getting close to 50k miles on the trailer and have never had a problem with the combo.

Ray Eklund told a story that I could not relate to. I do not know anything about other trailers, 27 footers or anything different than my 25 FB Safari. I have never had any issues leveling mine and I do not have to crank it up to get everything level. I think RideAir has it down. You don’t have to rely on the number of washers on your Equalizer alone to level things. Look at all three parts as mentioned.

When I first started reading this thread I thought it was going to turn into an Equalizer bashing sort of thing but low and behold, the OP was using a PP hitch as others were too. Wowza, the perfect hitch and still a problem. I really think this is a design flaw. Can you “over hitch” using a Pro Pride? I really don’t know but I would look there first.

FWIW, I have 1000 lb bars and my hitch weight is slightly above that. Instead of continually adding washers I adjusted the height of the head and adjusted the height of the L bars. I use little pressure to level the trailer now. It sits level, rides nice, doesn’t squeak all that much and has been working just fine since 2009. No accidents, no cracks, no dimples, very few popped rivets, no sway and no issues.

[ROBERTSUNRUS]

Hi, I don't know the cause of this, but by reading this forum it is very common for the rounded front storage compartment to buckle and the square ones to crack. [my opinion] Airstream should not have put a storage compartment in the front. Sheet metal should have been double or triple the thickness in that area.

[66Overlander]

Originally Posted by guskmg

For front/rear end separation, it is the frame flexing, not the shell. Why? Maybe the modular cross section of the frame is not heavy enough for the given length. Through the years the GVW has grown, but the shell strength has probably lagged. Look at Avions, SilverStreaks, and Streamlines, no separation from frame flex. All had heavier duty frames for a given length, therefore much less flexing. All are of monocoque construction. They all were heavier duty in the above order as listed. The basic problem is the shell does not flex with the frame and the weaker point gives in to the upward or downward force (bottom of the frame pulls away from the shell or the frame pushes up into the shell). On rear end separations, I have noticed it is not the Olympic or bucked rivets that fail, they just simply pull and tear their way through the skin in a downward motion. Longer Avions and SilverStreaks usually exhibit a 45 degree crack at the upward and forward corner of the entry door. Only Airstream and Streamline skinned the inside of their trailers with aluminum, thus stiffing up the shell, therefore no cracks. Some Airstreams had cracks emanating from the corners of the battery boxes due to no support under the battery holder bottoms, but that's another matter. Mine was repaired under goodwill after the warranty expired.
guskmg

Technically, I think almost all rivet aluminum trailers that rely on a steel ladder frame are considered semi-monocoque designs. The original Bowlus Road Chief and quite possibly he modern version (don't know for sure) are more likely full monocoque designs.

In any case, Airstream has known since the 1950s that the riveted dual skin aluminum body provided more strength than the steel frame underneath it and that the body actually holds the frame up. I have this in Wally Byam's own words. Wally understood that this situation was a contributing factor in both both front and rear end separation back in the 1950s. Interestingly, he felt that better hold down plates were the solution, not beefing up the strength of the main frame. Of course back then, they were seeing these issues mainly on the rugged caravans to less developed countries, not on typical usage on the better roads in the USA. And they had no front hatches back then.

And yes, some other brands such as Avion did in fact implement heavier, stronger frames, but was this needed for most users or was it "overkill" for most users? I don't know that answer.

It is true that Airstream interiors have increased greatly in weight, starting in the mid 1980s when hardwood cabinets and Corian countertops first came into usage on the top of the line models and eventually moving to most models. Frames (except for some of the smallest models) have used 5" tall rectangular tubing since 1969. Did the frame tubing walls get thicker at some point to make them stronger? I have no idea.

Regarding cracks at the door frame corners. These types of issues were seen on multiple trailers, including Wally's gold Airstream during the 1959-60 African Caravan. More recently, 34-footers from the 1990s and 2000 sometimes have a tendency to show these types of cracks as well.

The 1950/60 causes were likely the very rough roads in primitive areas in most cases. Today's issues are more likely either a weaker frame in relation to the weight of the Airstream (if that could be proven) and a combination of over hitching and heavy duty tow vehicles. I think these issues were less prevalent in the 1950s and 1960s when most people towed with softly spring full size cars rather than trucks.

Another contributing factor that has not been mentioned so far is that typical towing speeds have increased greatly in the last few decades as tow vehicles became more capable and speed limits, especially towing speed limits, increased greatly. While we typically tow at 60 mph or less, we have been passed many times by people towing trailers at 80 mph+. Back in the 50-70s, most likely towed even slower than our 60 mph - in fact that was the law back then in many states. It is a simple fact that faster you tow, the harder each bump you hit beats up your Airstream.

I still believe that a front hold down plate is better than a front hatch from a structural integrity standpoint and that very heavy, 1000 lb to 1400 lb, weight bars are not needed in most cases, especially if towing with a 3/4 or 1 ton truck. We tow our 2016 Classic 30 with a 3/4 ton pickup and 550/600 lb trunnion bars even though the tongue weight is well more than 700 lbs. No issues in over 20,000 towing miles.

Everyone has to decide what they are comfortable with. I am just trying to provide a little historical perspective to the discussion.