How come no one has come up with a parking brake for the AS

[jcl]

Originally Posted by overlander63

Actually, I'm pretty sure the Sport models are the Euro width.

They have different lighting standards, different braking standards, different weight and hitch standards, and different glass standards.

Plus different appliance standards, different gas standards, different electrical standards, different braking standards, different customer expectations, and a very different price point.

[jcl]

Originally Posted by OTRA15

Parking brakes for trailer? Lousy idea IMO:
-- one more thing to break or function poorly, for which the consequences [without tire chocks in place] could be catastrophic
-- false sense of security
-- would not work on all grades and pavement/soil/sand/gravel conditions
-- false sense of security redux
-- if activated with 12v electricity -- draining batteries redux
-- if activated mechanically, how/where/ease of operation -- universal design/location for all AS models?
-- generally -- overthinking with "new creative" solutions is often not productive -- just a bad idea all around! [IMO]
-- analysis paralysis -- ditto

If it ain't broken, don't fix it.

Keep it simple, Stu.

I think parking brakes should be mandatory.

It seems to me that most of your points could be applied equally to tow vehicles. Would you advocate for removing parking brakes there? Perhaps those reliant on automatic transmissions don’t think about parking brakes much, but those of us with manuals consider them essential equipment.

Parking brakes are more repeatable, thus safer in use, than chocks. They can be tested as a system.

Euro standard is holding on a 16% grade. What is the standard for a chock? At that grade I would be using both in any case. But I would rather have both than just one.

Mechanical actuation would be simpler than electrical. I agree with keeping it simple.

Electrical actuation could be the same as emergency actuation, or the system could be designed failsafe, with spring application and power holding off the brakes so no power consumed when applied (like truck air brakes in concept). Mechanical would just be simpler.

The standard for actuation is a handbrake lever mounted on the a frame near the coupler. With a place to add a padlock so the lever can’t be moved when unattended.

I don’t think this is a new solution. Parking brakes on other vehicles are 90 years old. We just don’t have them on trailers because somebody advocated for trailers to be excluded from the vehicle standards. Lots of criticism on here from time to time re Euro lawmakers succumbing to industry pressure and not having regulations that support WD, electric brakes, etc. This seems very similar, but perhaps it is harder to see in reverse.

We got seatbelts across the industry because Volvo decided to install them even though they weren’t required yet. Others followed. Maybe Airstream should be a leader here. They seem to have time for electric stabilizers, electric awnings, and a myriad of other features. Why should safety be ranked lower than other attributes? Can you imagine if the awning didnt come with a motor, or even a manual winder, just a retractable reel of fabric that we pulled out and used a (separately purchased) strut (chock) to make it functional?

[jcl]

I wondered how much room there was for the parking brake actuator arm in a standard electric brake. Turns out it isn’t an issue. Retail price difference with/without parking brake is $80 per brake, for a 3500 lb axle. Etrailer even sells the hand lever and cables, for mounting on the A frame.

https://www.etrailer.com/Accessories...ils=.questions

[Streamracer]

Some of the boat trailers have the manuel lever parking brake now.

[SteveSueMac]

Originally Posted by overlander63

Actually, I'm pretty sure the Sport models are the Euro width.

They have different lighting standards, different braking standards, different weight and hitch standards, and different glass standards.

Got it. Thanks. I saw one in the factory when I was last there. They look wicked sleek especially compared with my 8'6" wide one. Didn't realize there were so many other differences!

[blkmagikca]

My first trailer was a British-made Thompson – 13ft with mechanical surge brakes and handles on each side of the front panel to push it into position. It had a mechanical tongue jack with a swivel wheel and the parking lever. I forgot once to release it and the brakes overheated to the point that one of the release springs broke. So it’s not necessarily a good idea. Next time you take a factory tour at JC you may see one of the European models.

The European trailers are much smaller and lighter than the American/Canadian ones. They use a mechanical surge brake and no weight distribution hitches, and the weight on the hitch ball runs between 50 to 75 lbs, unlike the 800 lbs on my Excella. You have to set a small lever to stop the surge brake from activating when you want to back up, or the surge brake will prevent you from doing so. They don’t have a rear bumper (it adds weight) but it does have a large reflective triangle on the rear in addition to the normal brake/tail lights.

Sometimes Mother Nature teaches you a valuable lesson – that happened to me about 5 years ago when I was camping at Lake Mead. I used the cheapie plastic stacking blocks on one side to level my AS, and then I unhitched from the TV. The AS with my 2 dogs in it lurched back and would have headed down the ravine with a drop of 200 feet but was held back by the safety chains. So now I use a pair of X-type chocks that have a lever to set them and a padlock to secure the lever from being released BEFORE I unhitch the TV.

[r carl]

Originally Posted by overlander63

Unless something has changed recently, those trailers in Europe also are not allowed to have electric brakes, in most cases. They have to have hydraulic surge brakes--and are limited to 49mph. And the sway control is a friction pad clamped against the ball.

I have a feeling ST tires aren't on trailers sold to Europe.

[jcl]

Originally Posted by blkmagikca

Sometimes Mother Nature teaches you a valuable lesson – that happened to me about 5 years ago when I was camping at Lake Mead. I used the cheapie plastic stacking blocks on one side to level my AS, and then I unhitched from the TV. The AS with my 2 dogs in it lurched back and would have headed down the ravine with a drop of 200 feet but was held back by the safety chains. So now I use a pair of X-type chocks that have a lever to set them and a padlock to secure the lever from being released BEFORE I unhitch the TV.

Sounds like you would have really benefitted from having a parking brake mounted near the coupler.

[urban]

I don't think the European Airstreams are fully assembled in United States (I'm not sure if anyone can provide additional details) but I believe their axles and frames come from a European supplier DPW or DWP. The appliances are also european as well. I have a hard time imagining them leaving the factory without a frame at all so I imagine they must be shipped here and then I think they are actually completed with appliances and maybe even cabinets over seas? As such the European models would be a lot more difficult to service here as most of the parts are sourced from the market in which the trailer is designed to be used in.

FYI They also have a super tiny fresh and grey tank, cartage toilets, and a pretty low pay load, and I don't think they have AC if your into that.

[kenfconnor]

One of the things I love about Airstreams is they are simple (at least the vintage ones). I don't want to add complexity. First on the discussion of 16 degree slope and Europe: Has anyone had a desire to camp on a 16 degree slope? What would be the reason I would unhitch on a 16 degree slope.

For me the probability of forgetting to set or release the brake is at least as high as the probability of not setting or removing the chocks. I like the chocks, they are visible and the ability to hold the trailer in place for a chock is not dependent upon whether or not the brake is actually working. I bet a decent percentage of trailers today have brakes that are not working (at least to full capability) and the owner does not know they are not working. Even if I had a trailer brake I would use chocks (wouldn't you?) so what does a trailer break really accomplish?

What is the magnitude of the problem these proposed trailer brakes are solving? This seems like a "solution" looking for a problem. A good pair of chocks works fine. I have seen cars dragged into the water when the boat was launched because the driver did not put the vehicle in park and set the brake. We all make some errors but I don't think we need any legislation to add an automatic park/set brake feature to all boat trailers. There is a certain amount of personal responsibility to operate our vehicles properly and I would challenge anyone to show me an example of where a trailer hopped over a set of properly sized chocks assuming it was on some reasonably grade where a trailer should be stored or parked for camping.

The solid ones are certainly more dependable than hollow. I would point out that the x-chocks don't seem to be designed to replace the normal chocks. Are they not intended for simply stabilizing the small movement for even a chocked trailer?

Please don't add cost or legislation unless the scope of the problem is defined and the net savings (cost or injuries) is justified.

[KB6YAF]

The short answer? Most all RV trailer brakes are electric brakes. It would drain a battery very quickly to apply constant 12v power to the brakes to keep them locked up, plus the hum would drive you nuts.

The answer is simply,......use those manual wheel locks on both sides. Yes, use a set of wheel locks, like the X locks, on both sides if you are comping on a sloped RV site. I once unhooked my Airstream on a sloped site using only one set of wheel locks, and it did not hold the trailer. I had to quickly throw a rock against the tire to stop it from moving. I then I had to go take more heart medications!!! My answer was to lock down BOTH sides with the X lock. Might as well have a overkill, than to see your trailer jump a small 2x4 piece of wood.

[Caffeinated]

I parked my 25 ft SOB in my sloped driveway for 23 years. Used the yellow plastic chocks. They work fine.

Mike

[CoolCat]

I made laminated check lists for hooking up, setting up, an the big clean up when we come home. These stay in my billfold so I always have them. This idea comes from the pre flight checklist used before takeoff.

This idea came to me after a friend of ours pulled off with the electric cable and water hose still in place. I admit I’m possibly NOT the brightest bulb in the Christmas lights and find peace of mind with my check list in my hand!

[blkmagikca]

Originally Posted by jcl

Sounds like you would have really benefitted from having a parking brake mounted near the coupler.

Not really. What most people forget is that the electric brake mechanism on the AS is activated by means of a magnet drawn to the flat side of the brake drum, which then drags the mechanical lever to activate the brake by twisting the cam to separate the brake shoes, thus pressing them against the drum itself. The European version has no electrical magnet to do this - it is activated just like the drum brakes on cars by means of a cable twisting the cam. This arrangement lends itself to having a parking brake like they do on the European models.

Keep in mind that my fully loaded 32-ft Excella weighs about 9,000 lbs, a lot more than the 2,000 lbs most European trailers weigh.

[Overstreet]

Parking brakes were quite common on military trailers and AGE (aerospace Ground Equipment) …..and we had to fix them enough...….and we chocked the AGE anyway.

I've replaced a number of rear discs on my trucks from grooving done by parking brakes corroding and not releasing. (yankee winter roads and salty southern boat ramps) I don't need that kind of problem on the AS so I'll chock it. Been doing it for decades with boats, box trailers, and travel trailers. Never a problem but I did have a KOA with a hill.....but not a problem.

[rmkrum]

Chocks, locks, and tie-downs, in that order...with "Remove Before Flight" streamers all over the place...still have those 'funny' habits, including staying well clear of intakes, exhausts, and props...and well behind the "foul line" during 'Cat shots' and 'traps'.

On an Aircraft Carrier engaged in combat operations, funny (peculiar) habits are one of the best ways to A) Stay alive, and B) not get chewed out by the boss for damaging something very expensive...

(Charter Member of the Tonkin Gulf Yacht Club, aboard USS Ranger CVA-61)

[switz]

All European trailers are wired for 220 to 240Vac. Airstream in Jackson Center receives the frames from over seas and attach the aluminum body with braces for support during the shipment to the continent with no interior. Then the "distributors" build the custom interiors with real leather seating and the top line european appliances that make our Chinese appliances look like the junk they are.

In Europe, one can easily crowd 101,000 Euros (about $116,943) for the best model, the 684 that is 6.8 meters in trailer body length (about 22.3 feet) and 8.25 meters overall length (about 27') with a GVW of 2,680 Kg (about 5,905 pounds) with an empty weight of 2,250 Kg (about 4,960 pounds). That price includes the 19% VAT.

https://www.airstream-europe.com/pricing/

The above is the pricing from base and with various accessories available.

[jcl]

Originally Posted by kenfconnor

One of the things I love about Airstreams is they are simple (at least the vintage ones). I don't want to add complexity. First on the discussion of 16 degree slope and Europe: Has anyone had a desire to camp on a 16 degree slope? What would be the reason I would unhitch on a 16 degree slope.

<snip>

Please don't add cost or legislation unless the scope of the problem is defined and the net savings (cost or injuries) is justified.

The standard for the brake holding on a slope is to determine capability of the system and ensure functionality even if one parks on a lesser slope. I could see your point if the standard was 2% and people regularly parked on 4% grades, but given that an adjusted brake will hold on the specified slope I don’t see the problem.

There already is legislation in some states. I would be interested in why some modern trailers don’t comply with the regulations for the states where they are sold. Was a waiver issued perhaps?

[jcl]

Originally Posted by KB6YAF

The short answer? Most all RV trailer brakes are electric brakes. It would drain a battery very quickly to apply constant 12v power to the brakes to keep them locked up, plus the hum would drive you nuts.

Originally Posted by blkmagikca

Not really. What most people forget is that the electric brake mechanism on the AS is activated by means of a magnet drawn to the flat side of the brake drum, which then drags the mechanical lever to activate the brake by twisting the cam to separate the brake shoes, thus pressing them against the drum itself. The European version has no electrical magnet to do this - it is activated just like the drum brakes on cars by means of a cable twisting the cam. This arrangement lends itself to having a parking brake like they do on the European models.

Keep in mind that my fully loaded 32-ft Excella weighs about 9,000 lbs, a lot more than the 2,000 lbs most European trailers weigh.

Electrical activation of parking brakes isn’t to code in Europe, nor in the states that require parking brakes on trailers.

Those vehicles using hydraulic drum brakes generally don’t use the hydraulics for a parking brake, unless it is a Mico brake or similar line lock.

The simple solution is a cable to the brake assembly. A link was provided earlier to the Dexter brake assembly for 3500 lb axles, with electric brake activation for service brakes, and a manual parking brake. It is a standard product. Higher capacities also available, including for 6000 lb axles.

https://www.etrailer.com/Accessories...ils=.questions

[jcl]

One state with a parking brake requirement for trailers is Nevada. Here is the relevant statute, 484d.

Every motor vehicle, trailer, semitrailer, house trailer and pole trailer, and any combination of those vehicles operating upon a highway must be equipped with brakes in compliance with the requirements of this chapter....

Every such vehicle and combination of vehicles, except motorcycles or mopeds, must be equipped with parking brakes adequate to hold the vehicle or combination of vehicles on any grade on which it is operated, under all conditions of loading, on a surface free from snow, ice or loose material. The parking brakes must be capable of being applied in conformance with the foregoing requirements by the driver’s muscular effort or by spring action or by equivalent means. Their operation may be assisted by the service brakes or other source of power, provided that failure of the service brake actuation system or other power-assisting mechanism will not prevent the parking brakes from being applied in conformance with the foregoing requirements. The parking brakes must be so designed that when once applied they remain applied with the required effectiveness despite exhaustion of any source of energy or leakage of any kind. The same brake drums, brake shoes and lining assemblies, brake-shoe anchors and mechanical brake-shoe actuation mechanism normally associated with the wheel brake assemblies may be used for both the service brakes and the parking brakes. If the means of applying the parking brakes and the service brakes are connected in any way, they must be so constructed that failure of any one part will not leave the vehicle without operative brakes.

Some states refer to parking brakes being required on the combination; others like this one say every vehicle or combination. They also don’t permit an electric parking brake.

Rhode Island section 31-23-4:

Every motor vehicle, trailer, semi-trailer, and pole trailer, and any combination of those vehicles, except motorcycles and motor-driven cycles, shall be equipped with parking brakes adequate to hold the vehicle on any grade on which it is operated under all conditions of loading on a surface free from snow, ice, or loose material. The parking brakes shall be capable of being applied in conformance with the requirements in this subsection by the driver's muscular effort, by spring action, or by equivalent means. The operation may be assisted by the service brakes or other source of power, provided that failure of the service brake actuation system or other power assisting mechanism will not prevent the parking brakes from being applied in conformance with the requirements in this subsection. The parking brakes shall be so designed that when once applied they shall remain applied with the required effectiveness, despite exhaustion of any source of energy or leakage of any kind. The same brake drums, brake shoes and lining assemblies, brake shoe anchors, and mechanical brake shoe actuation mechanism normally associated with the wheel brake assemblies may be used for both the service brakes and the parking brakes. If the means of applying the parking brakes and the service brakes are connected in any way, they shall be so constructed that failure of any one part shall not leave the vehicle without operative brakes.

Other state requirements for parking brakes could, in my non lawyer opinion, be interpreted as applying to the combination, ie the tv parking brake would just have to meet the performance requirement for the combined weight.

Are there experts who know if or why the above doesn’t apply to travel trailers, at least in those two states?

In my province, parking brakes are required on commercial trailers, not RVs.