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Old 12-16-2015, 10:23 PM   #15
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The double sided foam tape seems like a great idea. Thanks.
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Old 12-16-2015, 10:28 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by nrgtrakr View Post
Given walls ~1-1/2" thick with fiberglass insulation for a whopping R 5.7 why bother?
Just curious ...
Really.

R5 sure beats R0. Especially in 105 degree heat. Plus if I can prevent thermal transfer from the exterior skin to the interior skin my AC unit will be able to keep up better on Texas summer days. R5 might not seem like a lot. But when you add up all the little things like insulation, thermal barrier on the ribs, low E windows, curtains, awning, a roof coating it all equals many degrees cooler inside the trailer.
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Old 12-16-2015, 11:59 PM   #17
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Has anyone actually recorded any data on the effectiveness of this "thermal break" modification? No disrespect intended. I freely admit I have zero knowledge on this topic. I'm just curious.
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Old 12-17-2015, 08:04 AM   #18
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(Gaffer's tape, huh? Q:You know the difference between a gaffer and a cinematographer? A About $3000/week.)

Michael

Good one Michael!!!!!😁


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Old 12-17-2015, 10:43 AM   #19
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Has anyone actually recorded any data on the effectiveness of this "thermal break" modification? No disrespect intended. I freely admit I have zero knowledge on this topic. I'm just curious.
It must be effective because all modern building codes are requiring thermal breaks in windows and the reduction of thermal bridging in building envelopes. All you need to do is look at the energy bills comparing a standard stick built home compared to a home using more sophisticated detailing and construction techniques. For example, the Passivhaus building standard reduces energy consumption for heating and cooling by up to 90% by careful use of insulation, efficient windows and elimination of thermal bridges (a thermal break is but one component of this strategy).
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Old 12-17-2015, 01:25 PM   #20
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I like the exhaust tape idea.
I bought ceramic insulating additive that u mix with paint. I'll use the ace galvanize metal and aluminum paint then add the ceramics. It's fairly cheap and easy to use. I saw where someone on the forum used it, they also painted a light bulb and were able to hold it in there hands and felt no heat. The plan is to paint the whole interior and then spray foam for insulation. 😄
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Old 12-17-2015, 05:50 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rugjenkins View Post
I like the exhaust tape idea.
I bought ceramic insulating additive that u mix with paint. I'll use the ace galvanize metal and aluminum paint then add the ceramics. It's fairly cheap and easy to use. I saw where someone on the forum used it, they also painted a light bulb and were able to hold it in there hands and felt no heat. The plan is to paint the whole interior and then spray foam for insulation. 😄
I am in the process of deciding about spray foam for my trailer also. I like this idea of the ceramic insulating additive. Where do you get this?
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Old 12-17-2015, 11:19 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by nrgtrakr View Post
Given walls ~1-1/2" thick with fiberglass insulation for a whopping R 5.7 why bother?
Just curious ...
Really.
Especially on 1-1/2" thick walls, there's lots better insulation than fiberglass. But I've been thinking the same thing about diminishing returns on these elaborate measures described. What kinda extreme conditions is the original poster anticipating?
Michael
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Old 12-18-2015, 10:40 AM   #23
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If the skins are off, there's really nothing elaborate about these measures. Seems the ideal time to use modern technology to improve upon a less than modern design. Will it add a huge amount of R-value to the assembly. Nope (unless you can afford aerogel), but every little bit will help. Especially if you can successfully introduce a thermal break from the ribs to the interior skin. Of course, people could always settle for these being 3-season trailers and leave well enough alone.
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Old 12-18-2015, 11:18 PM   #24
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Hytech thermal solutions. It's on the web
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Old 12-19-2015, 12:46 AM   #25
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The extreme conditions I anticipate are called Texas summers. 110F. No shade. If a thermal break reduces thermal transfer of heat from the exterior skin to the interior skin by a couple degrees it's worth the time and money since I already have the skins off anyway. Why not try it?

Maybe I'll leave one rib without the thermal break so I can use my laser thermometer to see if there is a difference.
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Old 12-19-2015, 08:39 AM   #26
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The extreme conditions I anticipate are called Texas summers. 110F. No shade. If a thermal break reduces thermal transfer of heat from the exterior skin to the interior skin by a couple degrees it's worth the time and money since I already have the skins off anyway. Why not try it?

Maybe I'll leave one rib without the thermal break so I can use my laser thermometer to see if there is a difference.
Yes, those are extreme conditions. I must've missed the thread's since-I-already-have-the-[interior]-skins-off-anyway remark.

I don't have air-conditioning. I anticipate that one of the virtues of my new solar panels will be the shade they create on the exterior skin (under them) thus keeping the trailer interior cooler.


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Old 12-19-2015, 09:55 PM   #27
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I've used the hytech beads - think non-skid paint additive, not a good thing to have between two soft aluminum structures that creep and vibrate. Where the beads excel is where temperature difference potentials are greatest, unlimited sunshine and roofing or steam pipes and cold air.

Please remember that aluminum itself does not radiate infrared as most materials do, something with the molecular size and IR light wavelengths - so any coating (even dust or oily film, etc.) applied to bare aluminum will amplify heat transmission via radiation (along with conduction and convection) - so the gains of painting may be slight, plus then loosing the reflective properties of bare aluminum to bounce heat back to source or loosing the smooth metal surface that keeps a portion of heat transferring via convection by having the smallest surface area.

I know, how far to carry on with re-engineering ...

If you do use spray foam you'll need to caulk any and all gaps between ribs and shell or overlapping edges with gaps, anywhere a gap can trap resins that continue to foam and WILL deform the shell when something gives. Even with minute micro area pressures once square inches of surface are involved sheet metal will yield to ripple things visibly from the outside.

If you do use a thermal break remember if it yields under rivet crush pressure you'll have a bazillion birds eye dimples around the rivets. If you use the VHB foam tape one could always put a drop of paint or epoxy at the drill bore to soak into the foam pores and harden to reduce that, just more detail work.

Also - the choice of materials might make a grass or trash fire into a catastrophe. Aside from fire dangers I'd be leaning toward the flexible cutting board material 'High Density PE Smooth 1/16 x 48"x96"' (.0625" $50) Sheet cut into strips... HDPE can handle 110°C /230°F continuously but will melt and pool at higher temperatures. Oops.

What I last glommed onto was some rolls of Mylar fiberglass reinforced electrical insulation tape, has low fire & toxin hazard & low mechanical compression and is nearly inert but sadly is just better than nothing in stopping the flood of conductive heat. I figure two layers on the bows ceiling curves will help without being too much trouble.

Keep posting your ideas and don't fatigue!!
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Old 12-20-2015, 12:39 PM   #28
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I like the exhaust tape idea.
I bought ceramic insulating additive that u mix with paint. I'll use the ace galvanize metal and aluminum paint then add the ceramics. It's fairly cheap and easy to use. I saw where someone on the forum used it, they also painted a light bulb and were able to hold it in there hands and felt no heat. The plan is to paint the whole interior and then spray foam for insulation. 😄

Do you plan to used the paint on the ribs or on the entire inner skins?


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