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Old 06-10-2013, 11:41 AM   #15
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Well two layers of reflectix up over the fiberglass, prodex too far away and too pricey for now. I think the transfer of heat from the ribs to the inner skin is the culprit-you can't touch the hot ribs hardly, just for kicks I put two layers of masking tape on the ribs, only took about 10
mins. you can actually touch them now??? probably won't do much.... already a difference with the new layers but still warm inside, I think once stuff-closets cushions, etc) get installed there will be less space and more cooled off things to help retain some coolness, I'll report back.
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Old 06-10-2013, 06:50 PM   #16
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You can get rubber roofing tape used to help seal valleys and ridges. It's about 4" wide and sticky on one side. I wonder if that would be a good insulator between the ribs and inside skins?
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Old 06-10-2013, 07:17 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by luvoldstuff View Post
Does that foil/bubble wrap type insulation work???
It was 95 degrees yesterday here in florida, I have a 12000 btu portable Ac that I was going to build a closet around, it vents through the floor, keeping the vintage look. I was working on bulkheads in the AS(19ft. '68 Globetrotter), and I was about to burn up, THE INTERIOR WON'T COOL OFF!!! I have new aluminum on the ceilings and walls, and the original insulation (replaced it where needed). You could not keep your hand on the ceiling, it was scorching hot!! You could watch the temp go from 84 to 91 in about 10 minutes inside when the sun would pop out,
In full sun, the temp would not go below 87. The AC unit was blowing hard and cold, it will cool it off when the sun is not out for a while down to 72(still 90 out). Can you say solar oven?
I am going pull the roof panels down (4X10) and add some insulation today. Luckily I didn't fully rivet them yet.
I know it will be a little better when I add cabinets and stuff and I will go to a 15k roof air if I have to, but I don't think it would help much with 150+ degree ceiling panels??!! A 12k should cool 17 ft.?
Any comments or suggestions on types of insulation I should add?
I was going to add 2 layers of that foil bubble stuff, maybe sandwiching the fiberglass???? I've got to do something. We mostly camp at the beach or lake with no shade.
I'm no help on the insulation but sometimes it comes down to having enough BTU's to overcome the heat load. I've used those portable units at work and while you would think they have enough BTU's, I've always found them lacking in equaling the cooling efficiency of dedicated units.

I remember my introduction to Airstreaming with my 27' 2001 Safari. It had a 13.5K BTU Penguin and in its first outing in full sun 104 degree heat, my indoor temp was between 85-87 degrees. Awnings help and since the Safari only had a curb side awning, I sprung for a long street side Zip Dee. That helped more than you think.

When I got the 30' Classic I took the 15K option. Never have had a heat problem since, and full sun in the summer always means deployment of all the awnings. Anything you can do to keep that sun off the skin is going to be a benefit.


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Old 06-10-2013, 09:41 PM   #18
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I would second the above response. I have had some experience with these portable units, and they are typically so flawed in their design that you have no hope of ever achieving their rated performance. In 9 out of 10 different models, the unit sits in your living room merrily blowing out cool air from the front. But it is simultaneously sucking in air from the room, circulating it past the condenser coils, and blowing it out the window. Simple mass balance dictates that if I blow the air I am cooling out the "exhaust" port of the unit, then naturally, the room will have to draw in the same volume of air (which will have to come from someplace hot) in order to avoid creating a vacuum. There is the occasional unit that draws in air from outside, circulates it past the condenser, and then exhausts it. Problem with this is that the intake and exhaust ports will end up next to one another, and you are going to lose efficiency by using heated air to try to cool your unit.

So have a good look at the way your unit circulates air past the condenser. If there isn't an intake port as well as an exhaust port, then it falls in that 9 out of 10 category above. If it has two ports, then try drawing air in from underneath the trailer, and exhausting it out the side. At the end of the day, an 11000 BTU unit is still pretty weak, even if it did work as imagined.

I have read many discussions about insulation on the forums, and I always feel like we are trying to fight physics (ie., you are living in a very conductive hot-box) with extremely sophisticated and expensive insulating techniques. The money that is spent on the ceramic nano-spheres, and other space-age novelties could be better spent on a bigger AC that achieves brute force cooling.

Many of the radiant barrier reflectex type insulators have very little R value, and their main function is bouncing radiant heat. If you read the installation instructions, you find that if they don't have something like a minimum 1/2" air gap then their effectiveness is greatly reduced, or negated entirely. So sandwiching it between your skin and a bunch of pink stuff is probably just a waste of time and money.

Good luck!
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Old 06-10-2013, 10:05 PM   #19
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Check out Page 5 of the Shell off headroom epiphany thread by Darkspeed for information on HSC-1000 Ceramic. Looks like an interesting product, but unfortunately there hasn't been anything new from Darkspeed in more that a year.
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Old 06-10-2013, 11:56 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidsonOverlander View Post
Check out Page 5 of the Shell off headroom epiphany thread by Darkspeed for information on HSC-1000 Ceramic. Looks like an interesting product, but unfortunately there hasn't been anything new from Darkspeed in more that a year.
Painting your aluminum (inside the walls) will increase the radiant heat. Aluminum is a not good radiator but paint is.

I tested the stuff.

My tests are in this thread.
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Old 06-11-2013, 12:00 AM   #21
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Here is the tryout:

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f109...ml#post1051687

And here is the start. Note that on afew sheets, I attached the prodex to the back of the aluminum, such as this photo.

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f109...ml#post1075324
I always wondered if putting a flexible barrier between the ribs and skins reduces it strength. The ribs and skin make an I beam in a sense and I wonder if putting something that is not rigid and may break down or move over time would cause issues. I would think that the rivets would not seat as well as they could and more and more movement would be introduced as the trailer moves down the road, but, then maybe all this really does not happen.
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Old 06-11-2013, 05:39 AM   #22
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Well two layers of reflectix definitely helped!

I got the interior skins back up, the high yesterday was 97, you could feel the difference as well as see it on the thermostat thermometer, it did get up to 85 degrees once inside but before it got up to 92.
You can now hold your hand on the ceiling and it is just warm in some places, before you could barely touch the ceiling it was scorching hot!

I agree about the free standing AC unit, my friend, who helped me hold up the 4X10' skins yesterday, owns an HVAC company, pointed out how inefficient the portables are. I'm going to leave it for now, may modify the intake, or just install a 15k roof air.

The idea of painting the inside with a ceramic coating, then insulating with prodex and FG sounds like the way to go and would be the way I would do it if I did this again, but it wasn't in the budget this time. (I'm double what I thought already)

I'm happy with the FG and reflectix this time, it's atleast a bit better than the way it came from the factory. The roof is definitely cooler.
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Old 06-23-2013, 11:28 AM   #23
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Well, It was mostly that sorry portable AC unit! I installed a new 15,000 BTU rooftop unit yesterday, and it does the trick. It's 95 degrees in the shade right now, you can't touch the outside aluminum skins where the sun is on them, but it is a steady 72 degrees inside!!
The dometic ceiling unit is neat because it blows out all four sides, keeping the new ceiling aluminum cool to the touch, and the interior is not complete yet, so I hope it might get even better with cabinets and such taking up space and insulating.
The briskair II unit is tall and kinda ugly up there and it drains to the outside, but it was barely in the budget at only $550. I guess I'll get used to it. The cool interior sure helps!
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Old 06-24-2013, 02:08 AM   #24
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the wrap don't work

F.Y.I. I contacted the manufacture of the bubble wrap from Lowes. They say and I quote “ it’s worth r-2 if incorporated without 2” of gap… That being said. You only have a little over 2” between the skins. IF you insulate for cold there would be no room for the gap you need, for the bubble stuff?. SHADE is the best defense. Any kind of cover will do.
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