Help me get JoyBug on the road!

[J. Morgan]

If you have a person who is a good TIG welder weld em' up and sand them flush...

If you don't have a good TIG welder fill them with duraglass and sand it flush.

IMHO, either of these actions will look better on a painted trailer than rivets sticking out like a sore thumb because they're out of line and haphazardly spaced.

[girasoledonn]

I've done a really good job I think of getting the ol' girl ready for painting. I bucked the holes where the original trim was closed, I polished all her window frames and door frame up really nice. I created new patches to cover the holes in the back where the barnacle was that I am no long using. I ordered new rub rail from VTS and I customized it by cutting fitting and drilling it, installing clecos, then hammering it gently into place so it would lay flat against the body. All new skills! The trouble is that Joybug is being taken up for her paint job tomorrow afternoon, and I have in everything I was trying to do - forgotten about the holes along the bottom of the trailer where the old rub-rail used to be.

Remember that these holes will be obscured by the new rub rail, but they are still holes that I need to fill.

Someone had suggested a flat rivet set - but I wont be able to get one I don't think by tomorrow morning and get this done before painting. I WOULD LOVE to fill these holes BEFORE painting because the paint will create an added layer of insulation from leaks.

But if i use buck rivets, I'm afraid the new rub rail wont lay flat. If I used pop rivets, even though its not a structural issue, I'm worried they'll leak (even if i put a glob of tempro all inside. I don't have time to learn how to counter sink the holes before Monday. I could wait till the trailer comes back to me painted, and then deal with the holes I guess? Its also going to be a challenge because several of these holes are through the c-chanel and hard to access with a bucking bar.

Any last minute thoughts on what I might do with these holes before tomorrow?

Attached are some pics of the polishing job, patches, and the new rub rail I created! Woo!

[Iansk]

I missed that the holes will be covered by the rub rail, in that case, and with the painting timeline, I'd use pop rivets making sure they are ALL aluminum and dipped in TremPro when installed. I would clean the squeeze out really well with mineral spirits and a rag in the case that the the TremPro doesn't fully cure by the time it gets painted. After the paint and before the rubrail, smear some more on/in the rivets. I would seal the top of the rub rail with a sealant but not the bottom.

Thats what I'd do...

Ian

[girasoledonn]

Originally Posted by girasoledonn

Hey guys and gals. Well I bought 1/4 inch rivets for the big holes and bucket those into place so that worked great. I cut, fit and pre-drilled holes for the new rub rail and the last step is filling the old holes from the pre-drilled rub rail along the bottom. Should i put pop rivets in them? Cause some of the holes are awkward size or larger... can i just put some tempro in them? There are tons of holes as you can see in the photo. Any thoughts here?

I may be a moron. Why cant I just use buck rivets for those holes? I am looking at the picture and the rail is clearly covering a line of buck rivets already? So... why am I worrying about putting in screws or flat rivets? Clearly the rail is going to be elevated over those bucked rivets anyway, and the old one was too?

[J. Morgan]

Originally Posted by girasoledonn

I may be a moron. Why cant I just use buck rivets for those holes? I am looking at the picture and the rail is clearly covering a line of buck rivets already? So... why am I worrying about putting in screws or flat rivets? Clearly the rail is going to be elevated over those bucked rivets anyway, and the old one was too?

Well, since I know the rub rail is going back now, Yeah, buck rivet them.

[girasoledonn]

Well guys, its been an interesting month, but I'm still working hard and moving things along on my own. I learned how to use a power saw and re-created the custom rub rail (that I had to re-purchase when the restorer I hired kept my materials and would not return them!) I bucked most of the holes along the rub rail, and I got 1/4 inch rivets for the three big holes in the back and riveted them on. I polished up the windows and frames! For the area where the trim wraps around the body, but will not be replaced, I bucked those holes as well. Even though they are not uniform, I saw Joybug yesterday with primer on at the autobody shop - and they really disappear under the paint. Nobody will see them but me, so its all good.

I havent been in touch because Joybug has been at the autobody shop for a month getting re-sanded and painted, and they had to finish some of my work - because I got a concussion while buck riveting about 4 weeks ago. YEP. I CANNOT CATCH A BREAK. My partner was holding the bucking bar inside while I was outside and I peered in through the back window to see his work. The gasket on the window from 1975 broke and the window came crashing down on my head and I passed out. The tow was set up for that day, and I couldn't finish bucking. So the autobody shop filled the remaining holes at the bottom where the rub rail will go with all-metal, sanded them etc before applying acid etch, epoxy primer and paint. Hoping that will be ok. He also found a ton of paint on the roof left behind by the restorer I took Joybug too back in the spring!! Unbelievable. But he took all of it off for me at no extra charge.

OK SO ANYWAY - Joybug is being painted today and comes home tomorrow and I'd like some advice on the next steps.

How do I install the metal holders that the marker lights go in? They were removed to be sanded properly and painted. What kind of sealant/adhesive should I use for them and also for the marker lights? Any tips on installing the marker lights themselves? I bought them years ago they are LED.

For reinstalling the new rub rail... should I use pop rivets or screws? Someone told me to also use butyl tape and then apply the rail? And then seal the top and bottom of the rail with sealant? Should I Use tempo for that if so? Or is the overkill?

Ok I guess that's its for now... Here's some pics of the work - the big rivets I put on the back up close and further back, me and my friend michelle standing proudly over the custom rub rail i made myself with power saw and all - and the pic I saw yesterday of my girl with her white primer on!

[thiel]

Nice to see you here on airforums. I have been seeing your posts on Facebook for a while, and I've been really impressed with your perseverance on this project. You seem to have both grit and good grace, and I hope you see this project all the way through so you can enjoy the fruits of your labor.

When I saw your posting here, I assumed you'd set up a gofundme and were hoping to raise funds for the final push. Wanted to let you know that I clicked through based on that assumption, ready to contribute a tenner to the cause! I suspect other folks on here might feel the same. Sending you a couple bucks ain't nothing more than buying you a beer from a distance.

Just a thought. I like people who help themselves, and you've done that a thousand times over as far as I can tell...

[girasoledonn]

Theil... thanks. Yea I figured I needed to be on here if I was gonna get the info I needed for each step of the project! No, I wasn't posting asking for money - just advice and help so I can spend the sweat equity needed to finish. But that is very kind, and I suppose I could ask.. Lord knows I need money haha but I dunno, I just don't feel right doing it.

[Bumpy]

Originally Posted by girasoledonn

Hey Guys.

Short synopsis of my story. My name is Anj. In 2017, I purchased a 1975 Argosy that I lovingly named "JoyBug". I was as green as they come. Never held a drill. Didn't know a rivet from a screw. Thought I'd move in, slap some paint on the walls and be on the road in a week. Then, as I started to "peel away the layers" and found damage, I decided to gut her. Before I knew it, i was finding mouse poop in the walls, and floor rot and taking her down to the shell and frame. Still thought I'd be on the road... in say... 3 months.

Here I am two summers later, and Joybug is still a work in progress. I've got scars all over my body from metal work, bumping my shins on the exposed frame, power washing my foot, dropping the air conditioner on my leg, and on and on. But i have learned a ton, and done most of the work myself, and I'm proud of that.

The story has been epic, from learning how to gut it myself, installing the subfloor and repairing the frame, building a mock-up, then being struck down with Mono for 9 months, rushing to do whatever possible to raise 10K to get it to a restoration company in NY so that the belly pan could be put back on etc before winter hit. (I actually recorded an album while in and out of the hospital to raise the money, and raised a little bit online too). I took it to his company because the owner had been my mentor, charging me hourly for his advice throughout the project, and I thought putting it in his hands was a good idea.

Well, it stayed up at that company from December until one week ago, mostly sitting there for months and months while other bigger projects were granted priority, estimates totally ignored, promises broken, absolutely no communication for weeks at a time, deadlines totally ignored, costs billed for materials and labor I never approved - it got so bad that I had to threaten legal action, and amend the invoice myself, and go up and take my trailer back. When I got there, the materials I had purchased were locked away so that I couldn't access them, held at ransom for the remaining amount I refused to pay, and now I'll never see those materials again. Then the live document invoice was changed to reflect a lie so that I couldn't take him to small claims court. The experience was an absolute nightmare.

I spent $25,000 (though being billed $30,000) at this restoration company, and the trailer came back to me still an empty shell. It was in no way worth what I spent and frankly should never have paid. The grey tanks were installed - it did have the belly pan on, patches I made were bucked on, fantastic vans installed, and it was sanded for painting. Still, it ended extremely ugly with this person, who I no longer have as a "paid mentor" and now the project which was designed with his ideas in mind I am left to finish alone; putting together his pieces and trying to figure out what he had in mind when he made certain decisions along the way.

So, now I need the help of other experts to clean up this mess and continue on.

I've been very active on the Airstream Addicts forum on FB. But while there are 40,000 people on the site, I know there aren't many experts there. So i came here.

I wanted to start a thread where all the info could be in one place, as I continue with my project and see it through to completion.

I'm going to post my first question underneath here. Hoping you guys and gals can help me see my dream become reality.

Love,
A Girl and her Argosy, "JoyBug."

You are an amazing young woman! Don’t be distracted by some mistakes you’ve made.

Continue head long into this learning adventure. You will survive!

[girasoledonn]

Guys - can anyone tell me if this if this is the best way to reinstall the rub rail at the bottom of my trailer? I custom made it from aluminum strip I got from VTS.

Use butyl tape, then stick the rub rail on, drill the holes and fill with pop rivets with a little bit of tempro in the hole? Then seal the top side of the rub rail with a small bead of tempro? But I have also heard that it won't bead very well and I should use paranbond, or some kind of aluminum looking sealant that will be less noticeable? I've also read that butyl tape dries out - but if I use gorilla tape or something, and ever need to get the rub rail off, it'll be a mess. Besides, i think the butyl tape drying out is only an issue if its exposed?

Thoughts?

[J. Morgan]

IMHO double sided 3M tape and pop rivets will work just fine.

[girasoledonn]

Originally Posted by J. Morgan

IMHO double sided 3M tape and pop rivets will work just fine.

what is 3M tape?

[rmkrum]

3M makes a line of double-sided bonding tapes that have amazing strength. Either VHB (Very high bond) or UHB (ultra high bond) tape on properly cleaned aluminum is able to stick solar panel brackets or other items on in a manner that is impossible to remove without great violence, sharp tools, and a lot of cussing. They are amazing products.

A coat of sealant like Sikaflex over the tape edges to protect from sun and water, and you can be sure whatever you put together stays together.

Many solar panel installs are done with 3M tape, and they stay stuck though extreme heat, high speeds, and heavy vibration. A lot of modern aircraft are put together with these materials... stronger than rivets when the joint is designed properly.

My 150 watt aluminum framed solar panel mounting feet are stuck on with VHB tape...since 2012 or so. And speeds up to 85 mph. (Don’t ask how I found out). The feet aren’t coming off. The bolts are more likely to get loose first.

Incredible stuff that acts like flexible contact cement. Once it touches down and cures for a short time, it is not moving ever again...

[Iansk]

The trick to making a good, smooth bead with trempro is to mask with painters tape, leaving only the line you want sealed, run a small (smaller than you think) bead and smooth (or tool) with a mineral spirits wetted finger. Don’t leave the tape on too long and peel away from your bead when removing. Lots of prep work and pretty messy, have lots of rags and clothes you don’t mind ruining, but near invisible when done. ParBond works the same way but it skins over faster so you have to work in smaller sections.

I used trempro and pop rivets with dabs of trempro in the holes and on the heads when reinstalling part of my rub rail but only sealed the top to let any moisture drain out the bottom.

Ian

[Argosy man]

Nobody has mentioned here yet- Your trailer is amazing! The rare tandom axle 22ft rear door Argosy is what us Argosy lovers fantasize about finding. In my opinion; you own the Holy Grail of Argosies

I know currently it is gutted- are you going back to original layout on the interior? or Custom?

Joining your thread- Looking forward to seeing your progress.

Shawn

[thiel]

+1 on 3M VHB tape. FWIW, the rub rail on my door dropped off of its factory installed rivets after about a year. I reinstalled with VHB tape and some pop rivets and it's rock solid now.

[Jezibels]

Hi Anj and Joybug! I was one of your friends on fb (I have since dumped fb for ig) good to see you around! You're doing fantastic and I'm glad she is primed! Use the 3m tape, I can attest it's held for a decade on my '66. I remember you had the wood interior bench seats and table made or a mockup made? Hows that coming along?

[girasoledonn]

Originally Posted by Jezibels

Hi Anj and Joybug! I was one of your friends on fb (I have since dumped fb for ig) good to see you around! You're doing fantastic and I'm glad she is primed! Use the 3m tape, I can attest it's held for a decade on my '66. I remember you had the wood interior bench seats and table made or a mockup made? Hows that coming along?

Hey there! I am seeing this a few days too late. I installed the rub rail without any tape - I was using butyl in the beginning but didn't like it - so i just used tempro through the holes, pop riveted them, and now im going to seal the top of the rail with parabond. I can tell you that it was a pain in the freaking butt cutting, trimming and fitting new rub rail on my own with no other pair of hands. Its a little wavier than I would've liked, but i'm hoping no one will notice. Hell, at least I did it myself! I hope its ok without using tape cause no way in hell I'm taking it all off now!

Yea I was creating a mock up this time last year! It was a crazy year I got sick with Mono, ran into a debacle with a restoration company, but she's back in my hands. Since the entire interior is gutted, I had her sanded and painted so that I wouldn't be doing that around the marker lights and rub rail etc - figured a better pain job. she just got painted, so now i'm putting everything back on the outside - working on custom chrome tail lights etc... marker lights are up next and I don't know how to install them. ahah thats my next question. After thats done - I can finally move inside and build her. One thing thats great though is because there are no skins inside, I can seal every single hole from the rub rail from the inside with tempro for extra protection.

Also, I'm on IG if you want to follow me - @catchthejoybug

[girasoledonn]

Ok. Talk to me like i'm a complete moron. I know nothing about electrical work basically. I need to reinstall the cast aluminum holders for my marker lights on my trailer ( they were removed for the painting - why I have no idea), and then install my marker lights. Inside the trailer is a shell - no skins are inside.

This is what i "think" I know about installing them. Please steer me in the right direction.

I bought LED marker lights two years ago for the project, back when I had an electrician who was doing a "mild electrical update" on her and I thought I'd be right on the road hahaha. Anyway, he said they would fit perfectly, so hopefully they are right.

I'm told I need to build a gasket that would go on the surface of the Argosy behind the marker light holder, to create a seal? How do I do that?

I was going to install the marker lights with pop rivets, but I could do buck rivets if I can find a 2nd set of hands. Or should it be screws? I'm guessing not screws because of leaks?

Ok so... the marker lights have two wires - how do i know which one is the hot and which is the ground? Do both of the wires go inside the trailer, but only one is grounded to the metal? I'm guessing they're grounded to the end cap inside.. but how do i do that?

Do I need to seal the holes that the wires go through, and if so how?

As i said, I know I probably sound like a moron - but its another new step for me. I will look it up on You Tube also, but I'd prefer some AA experts on here to lend me some advice!

thanks guys

[Iansk]

Originally Posted by girasoledonn

Ok. Talk to me like i'm a complete moron. I know nothing about electrical work basically. I need to reinstall the cast aluminum holders for my marker lights on my trailer ( they were removed for the painting - why I have no idea), and then install my marker lights. Inside the trailer is a shell - no skins are inside.

This is what i "think" I know about installing them. Please steer me in the right direction.

I bought LED marker lights two years ago for the project, back when I had an electrician who was doing a "mild electrical update" on her and I thought I'd be right on the road hahaha. Anyway, he said they would fit perfectly, so hopefully they are right.

I'm told I need to build a gasket that would go on the surface of the Argosy behind the marker light holder, to create a seal? How do I do that?

I was going to install the marker lights with pop rivets, but I could do buck rivets if I can find a 2nd set of hands. Or should it be screws? I'm guessing not screws because of leaks?

Ok so... the marker lights have two wires - how do i know which one is the hot and which is the ground? Do both of the wires go inside the trailer, but only one is grounded to the metal? I'm guessing they're grounded to the end cap inside.. but how do i do that?

Do I need to seal the holes that the wires go through, and if so how?

As i said, I know I probably sound like a moron - but its another new step for me. I will look it up on You Tube also, but I'd prefer some AA experts on here to lend me some advice!

thanks guys

In order:

- I refuse to talk to you like you are a moron.

- you can get gasket material in sheets from VTS or a decent auto parts store though all my marker lights on 3 trailers are mounted straight to the skin and sealed around the top 3/4 with parbond or trempro.

- Pop rivets are fine. Bucking may crack the casing or deform the skin, plus you may need to trouble shoot in the future so make them easy to remove but secure.

- white is typically the ground and black is typically the hot for 12v rv systems.

- install rubber grommets, pass the wires through those and trempro the holes if you want. Though if the second step above was done well, you shouldn't need the trempro. Mine aren't trempro'd, they just pass through grommets.

Ian