Journey with Confidence RV GPS App RV Trip Planner RV LIFE Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Take a Speed Test Free 7 Day Trial ×
 


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 09-21-2016, 12:31 AM   #1
2 Rivet Member
 
Currently Looking...
Austin , Texas
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 37
Converter failure in the middle of a big trip - advice needed

Hi Everyone!

I'm two weeks into a very long trip with my wife and cat in our new 27FB Flying Cloud. I've been meaning to post about our adventures and experiences so far, but unfortunately my first post is about an electrical problem that suddenly happened and threatens to ruin our trip.

I'd be so grateful for any advice anyone has on this.

I would have just immediately brought it into a dealer for servicing but all dealers in about a 1000 mile radius seem to be booked for many weeks out. We are far from home now and living in the AS, so this is a long time to be living with a malfunctioning electrical system. I have some concerns that depending on what went wrong there might be a fire hazard, so in addition to the loss of functionality I have a larger concern about safety.

The AS is under warranty which obviously is awesome, but I'm concerned that if I try to fix this myself I might void the warranty. Dealers I spoke to on the phone advised me that I could void it, and when I spoke to Airstream tech support they advised me against trying to fix it myself. However, I'm not convinced this would void the warranty - but I don't want to risk that if there is a possibility.

Ok, here are the details on the problem:

After towing for about 400 miles yesterday, I checked the voltage level of the batteries after I had connected to shore power. I was doing this to see if it read 13.6 volts indicating the batteries were charging. Instead, it read 12.5 volts.

I realized this was abnormal and decided to keep an eye on it. I am connected to 50A shore power and was able to run both air conditioners, the outlets work, etc, so I know the shore power is actually connected.

By this morning the voltage was reading 11.9 volts, so I was sure the batteries were not charging. I did some experiments to try and understand what was happening. I discovered that when I switched the battery disconnect to the store position it cut all power to the AS, including the air conditioners, refrigerator and outlets. This is abnormal - usually switching to the store position doesn't affect power to the circuits drawing from the shore connection.

It seemed likely, maybe obvious that this is due to a problem with the converter. I checked the 30A fuse that is next to the battery box and it looked healthy. To eliminate the possibility that this fuse was bad, I tried putting in a new fuse but it didn't help.

My wife and I inspected the other fuses and checked the circuit breakers on the main electric panel, and everything looked normal. It doesn't seem likely to me anyway that they would be the culprit.

So, it seems most likely our converter fried itself somehow.

I'm worried that even unscrewing the main electric panel to take a look at the converter might void the warranty. Does this seem like a risk?

If voiding the warranty isn't a concern, does anyone think I should attempt to replace the converter myself? I've read some other threads on this and it seems like it is doable. But I'm a little bit scared of doing this as I'm worried I might just make things worse if I don't know entirely what I'm doing...

Also, what does everyone think about the possible risk of an electrical fire in case something is shorting out and getting very hot? I'm planning on cutting the shore power and switching the battery disconnect to store tonight before I go to sleep, just to be on the safe side. There should be no chance of fire if there is no electric.

What could have caused this? It seems unlikely to me that a brand new converter would fail without some external factor? One thing I am worried about is that our cat found her way into the hidden areas under the couch and fridge where the furnace ductwork and some wiring is. She likes to scratch and destroy things so... This was a little sketchy. My wife installed a fence barrier to keep her out of there now, but she was under there for quite some time. I visually inspected for damage but didn't see anything obvious.

We're actually quite stressed out about this as we don't want this to ruin or end our trip. I don't have a practical way at the moment to recharge the batteries, and I'm not totally sure what unexpected things might stop working when the batteries go dead. I'm aware that this will shorten the life of the batteries, but my bigger concern is that we will end up in a rough living situation with various things not working. We are planning on being connected to shore power so in theory this might not be a problem though. We bought some cheap metal clasp lamps at Lowes to plug into the AC outlets, which we are using for light to spare the batteries.

Interestingly, we kind of like the lighting effect in the AS using these metal clasp lamps attached to the bottoms of the cupboards!

My wife and I would be so grateful for any thoughts anyone might have on this. And, I promise that my next post will be on some more exciting and fun part of our new adventures!

Cheers,
YB
YodaBuddha is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2016, 12:49 AM   #2
2 Rivet Member
 
Currently Looking...
Austin , Texas
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 37
A couple of other notes:

I know that I can trickle charge the batteries using my tow vehicle, but this is impractical right now for a variety of (probably obvious) reasons while we are parked in a campground.

I'm wondering if there is a good way to charge the batteries using a generator connected via DC? But, this also is not practical as they do not allow generators in the place where we are parked - but we could move somewhere else if needed.

The above doesn't matter at all if there is a big safety concern regarding a chance of an electrical fire if something is shorting out and getting very hot.
YodaBuddha is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2016, 01:03 AM   #3
2 Rivet Member
 
Currently Looking...
Austin , Texas
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 37
Here's a photo of our rig in the light of a beautiful New Mexico sunset, from last week.
YodaBuddha is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2016, 01:27 AM   #4
2 Rivet Member
 
Currently Looking...
Austin , Texas
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 37
Also, I apologize for my lack of knowledge about these matters. I'm still a newbie with AS stuff and was just starting to get my feet wet when this happened. I'm semi competent with wiring and electrical stuff but I'm afraid I know just enough to get myself into trouble
YodaBuddha is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2016, 02:53 AM   #5
Rivet Master
 
2005 19' Safari
GLENDALE , AZ
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 2,453
Re: Converter failure

A few questions and suggestions:
  • Where are you located? -- I may be able to locate a dealer near you.

  • Did you check the water level in your batteries? -- It's possible that your batteries have boiled dry, or level is low.

  • If you are certain that your cat did not damage wiring, connect to shore power and switch battery disconnect to USE position.

    I have a 2005 19' Bambi, so this suggestion may not be accurate for your model: I don't think the converter charges the batteries when the battery disconnect switch is in the STORE position. Also, I think this switch works on 12 VDC; so if your batteries are discharged, the relay for this switch may not work if shore power is disconnected and 120 VAC is not provided to the converter.

    Note: When checking the circuit breakers, they must be "armed" by pushing the switch firmly past the OFF position, before turning them back on. If a breaker has been tripped, and the switch is just moved to center OFF position, the circuit breaker may not be reset (armed).

    I suspect that if you leave the USE/STORE switch in the USE position overnight, you'll see that the batteries are charging by tomorrow. However, if they are severely discharged, it may take a couple of days to bring them to a full charge. In any case, I would go ahead and connect to shore power. At least, the 120 VAC outlets will work (including air conditioner); and you should have 12 VDC available, supplied by the converter, even though your batteries may be discharged.

  • If your batteries do not seem to be charging after 12-24 hours, I recommend that they be removed and taken to an auto parts store (AutoZone, Pep Boys, NAPA, etc.) for a quick charge and FREE load test, which will determine if they are good or bad.

    I suspect that you may have a battery problem, and there is probably nothing wrong with your converter. This is a common problem with new Airstreams, as the are often damaged on the dealer's lot. If not connected to shore power, the batteries go dead from "phantom drains" (propane detector, subwoofer and other items that stay on even though everything appears to be OFF); and then they sit dead until someone buys the trailer. Or, if connected to shore power 24/7, the batteries boil dry. Both of these conditions result in damaged batteries straight off the lot. Some new owners have gotten free replacements under warranty; but, in any case, you may need new batteries.

Please post what happens after you try the above. By then, others may have other suggestions. At least, this should get your batteries started charging.

Good luck!
Phoenix is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2016, 03:52 AM   #6
Rivet Master
 
1977 31' Sovereign
1963 26' Overlander
1989 34' Excella
Johnsburg , Illinois
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,944
You could just buy a $35 110 volt 10 amp battery charger from Walmart (or similar) and back charge the batteries by plugging in through the 12 volt cigarette lighter outlets in the coach. It worked for me, until I could get home to really fix the problem.
dwightdi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2016, 04:12 AM   #7
3 Rivet Member
 
teagues's Avatar
 
2008 20' Safari SE
Charlotte , North Carolina
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 147
Quote:
Originally Posted by dwightdi View Post
You could just buy a $35 110 volt 10 amp battery charger from Walmart (or similar) and back charge the batteries by plugging in through the 12 volt cigarette lighter outlets in the coach. It worked for me, until I could get home to really fix the problem.
We have a winner!
teagues is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2016, 05:14 AM   #8
Rivet Master
 
Currently Looking...
Mantua , Ohio
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 7,062
Blog Entries: 2
Batterys would be my guess, the charger idea is a good one.
xrvr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2016, 07:05 AM   #9
Rivet Master
 
KJRitchie's Avatar
 
2008 25' Classic
Full Time , Texas
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 4,309
Have you measured the voltage coming off the battery posts on the converter? My converter failed and when plugged into shore power there was low voltage coming off the posts so the batteries never charged. I also found the power lead from the 7 pin connector was directly connected to my hydraulic brake actuator, (I have a Classic with disc brakes) which is not your issue.The previous owner probably did this. I purchased a battery charger when I discovered this while camping. Going through this exercise a couple of times the battery voltage got down into the 11v range. Later at home I pulled the batteries and charged them then tested with a hydrometer. 2 cells in one battery were low. I used an old 6amp Sears charger that can boost the voltage to 15+ volts to try to condition them. With the covers off I charged that battery at 15v for several hours and the cells recovered. My battery capacity is probably less now but the batteries are workable. I also wired the 7 pin power lead and brake actuator lead to connect to the positive battery bus. I ended up replacing the converter with a PD4655 3 stage, something you should consider doing anyway. I'll be replacing the batteries in a couple of months with 2 6v Lifelines.

Kelvin
__________________
2008 Classic 25fb "Silver Mistress"
2015 Ram 2500 6.7L Cummins. Crew Cab, 4x4, Silver
KJRitchie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2016, 07:09 AM   #10
Rivet Master
 
AldeanFan's Avatar
 
1977 23' Safari
Niagara on the Lake , Ontario
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 984
Images: 3
Agree with above.
Take the batteries to an auto parts store and have them tested. Replace if they're bad. If they pass, buy a battery charger to use till you can get the converter fixed/replaced.
Don't let this ruin your trip!
Good luck
__________________
1977 Safari Land Yacht
2005 Toyota Tundra SR5
2022 Toyota 4Runner SR5
AldeanFan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2016, 07:22 AM   #11
Rivet Master
 
jayseejay's Avatar
 
2015 27' FB Eddie Bauer
2011 25' FB Flying Cloud
Fernandina Beach , Florida
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 629
The fact that, when on shore power, turning the battery switch to store cuts all power (including AC) to the Airstream tells you it is a converter issue, not a battery issue. Get the trickle charger to keep you batteries going for now, and pressure the nearest dealer to order and replace your converter. Best of luck! Joe
jayseejay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2016, 09:29 AM   #12
Senior Member
 
sheriff1's Avatar
 
2012 27' FB Eddie Bauer
Sparks , Nevada
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 1,116
Quote:
Originally Posted by jayseejay View Post
The fact that, when on shore power, turning the battery switch to store cuts all power (including AC) to the Airstream tells you it is a converter issue, not a battery issue. Get the trickle charger to keep you batteries going for now, and pressure the nearest dealer to order and replace your converter. Best of luck! Joe

More likely a transfer switch problem.


2015 F350 CC 4X4 6.7 Diesel
2010 27FB Silver Cloud "The Silver Spoon"
sheriff1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2016, 10:17 AM   #13
LFC
4 Rivet Member
 
Vintage Kin Owner
Memphis , Tennessee
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 260
Find a Camping World.
LFC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2016, 10:25 AM   #14
Rivet Master
 
2005 19' Safari
GLENDALE , AZ
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 2,453
YodaBuddha, it looks like you are camped at Leasburg Dam State Park, about 15 miles north of Las Cruces.

Contact info for the closest RV dealer with a service department appears below. However, I don't think they are an Airstream dealer:

Holiday World RV
1285 Avenida de Mesilla
Las Cruces, NM
575-523-0715 / 800-388-5995

RV Sales and Parts
Monday thru Friday: 9:00 AM - 6:00 PM
Saturday: 8:30 AM - 5:00 PM

RV Service
Monday thru Friday: 8:30 AM - 6:00 PM

If you on the move, there is an Airstream dealer in Tucson (Lazy Days) and a former dealer that still services Airstreams (Oasis RV). Also, there's an Airstream dealer in Albuquerque.

Both Albuquerque and Tucson have Camping World stores, which may also be able to help. (Note: The Tucson Camping World is on the same property as Lazy Days and a KOA.)

Let me know if you need contact info on the RV service centers in Tucson or Albuquerque.
Phoenix is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2016, 11:32 AM   #15
2 Rivet Member
 
2016 30' Classic
Rockbridge Baths , Virginia
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 44
I had the exact thing happen on our most recent trip. Voltage dropped to 8.9 and front a/c not working but rear still working , lights dimming, etc. Went to Walmart, bought a Stanley charger, hooked up to batteries and problem went away. Originally thought front a/c was on the fritz but began working immediately as well as all lights,etc. Voltage back to 13.+. While traveling, TV kept batteries up, arrived at campground, hooked up the charger. No problems and continued on trip for 4 more weeks.

Obviously, converter/charger failed and headed to Jackson Center next weekend for another list of warranty items to be corrected. Would encourage you to do the same. I have come to not trust local dealers and the factory service is second to none. Hope this helps.
SC RVer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2016, 11:53 AM   #16
Rivet Master
 
Al and Missy's Avatar
 
2002 30' Classic S/O
Fleming Island , Florida
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 4,667
I'm not understanding why going to store mode kills the AC and outlets. If this is a trailer with two AC inputs, one for shore power and one for generator, and a transfer switch, and the converter is bad, and the transfer switch needs 12 volts, that could explain it. You could try to moving the shore power cable to the other (generator) connector; that might restore shore power to everything else.

This will not help the lack of battery charge from a failed converter. An inexpensive auto charger as previously suggested could keep your batteries charged until you can get into a dealer for warranty repair.

Al
__________________
“You cannot reason someone out of a position they have not been reasoned into"
Al, K5TAN and Missy, N4RGO WBCCI 1322
2002 Classic 30 Slideout -S/OS #004
2013 Dodge 2500 Laramie 4x4 Megacab Cummins
Al and Missy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2016, 12:02 PM   #17
3 Rivet Member
 
teagues's Avatar
 
2008 20' Safari SE
Charlotte , North Carolina
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 147
Quote:
Originally Posted by Al and Missy View Post
I'm not understanding why going to store mode kills the AC and outlets. If this is a trailer with two AC inputs, one for shore power and one for generator, and a transfer switch, and the converter is bad, and the transfer switch needs 12 volts, that could explain it. You could try to moving the shore power cable to the other (generator) connector; that might restore shore power to everything else.

Al
The air conditioner requires both 12v (for the thermostat) and 110v (for the compressor and fan). If the converter is not functioning and providing the 12v, the batteries will take care of that until they run out -- or -- until you click the Use/Store switch to Store. At that point, there's no 12v, and therefore no AC.

Turning off the breaker to the converter, switching Use/Store to Use, and putting a charge on the batteries saves the vacation. Any qualified RV service center can replace the converter when the trip is over. Keep the trip going, and wait until you find a service center with a good reputation that will not require you to live in their parking lot for a week or more.
teagues is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2016, 12:18 PM   #18
Rivet Master
 
Al and Missy's Avatar
 
2002 30' Classic S/O
Fleming Island , Florida
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 4,667
Quote:
Originally Posted by teagues View Post
The air conditioner requires both 12v (for the thermostat) and 110v (for the compressor and fan). If the converter is not functioning and providing the 12v, the batteries will take care of that until they run out -- or -- until you click the Use/Store switch to Store. At that point, there's no 12v, and therefore no AC.

Turning off the breaker to the converter, switching Use/Store to Use, and putting a charge on the batteries saves the vacation. Any qualified RV service center can replace the converter when the trip is over. Keep the trip going, and wait until you find a service center with a good reputation that will not require you to live in their parking lot for a week or more.
Thanks, that explains the AC. The outlets must be a transfer switch issue. Moving the shore power cord might fix the outlets, but not the AC. The inexpensive battery charger is the best (and only complete) solution. I'm still getting used to the fact of 12V thermostats. My previous trailer had a thermostat built in to the unit and only required 120VAC to operate.

Al
__________________
“You cannot reason someone out of a position they have not been reasoned into"
Al, K5TAN and Missy, N4RGO WBCCI 1322
2002 Classic 30 Slideout -S/OS #004
2013 Dodge 2500 Laramie 4x4 Megacab Cummins
Al and Missy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2016, 12:42 PM   #19
3 Rivet Member
 
teagues's Avatar
 
2008 20' Safari SE
Charlotte , North Carolina
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 147
Quote:
Originally Posted by Al and Missy View Post
Thanks, that explains the AC. The outlets must be a transfer switch issue. Moving the shore power cord might fix the outlets, but not the AC. The inexpensive battery charger is the best (and only complete) solution. I'm still getting used to the fact of 12V thermostats. My previous trailer had a thermostat built in to the unit and only required 120VAC to operate.

Al
The 12v thermostat makes more sense if you consider that it's responsible for the AC/Heat Pump and the furnace. You cannot run the AC without shore power, but you can run the furnace on batteries alone. To have a single thermostat that runs everything, it needs a 12v source that does not require shore power. Not saying that's the only way they could have done it, much less the best way to do it, but that's what they did.
teagues is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2016, 12:50 PM   #20
Wise Elder
 
Jammer's Avatar
 
2010 30' Classic
Vintage Kin Owner
South of the river , Minnesota
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,169
Quote:
Originally Posted by YodaBuddha View Post
My wife and I would be so grateful for any thoughts anyone might have on this.
Hello YB.

It's notoriously difficult to diagnose electrical problems over the internet, so I'm going to try to steer clear of that as far as I can. However, I will offer several observations and suggestions.

1) I understand you have a new 27' FC. I believe that the converter is connected to 120v power in these models using an ordinary household cord and plug. Therefore, you can unplug it! That should address any concerns about fire safety while connected to shore power. (As an aside, if it's already unplugged, you might have found your problem. As another aside, you can plug it into an extension cord and a known good outlet as a troubleshooting measure)

2) As others have pointed out, you can use any ordinary automotive battery charger as a temporary interim measure.

3) You can also exchange batteries between your tow vehicle and the Airstream, although it is possible that the Airstream battery will be a little too large to fit physically in the available space in the tow vehicle (depends on vehicle). This is often the fastest way to get power to your Airstream for a night to buy some time and spousal happiness. (You may end up having to jump start your vehicle however and it can be a little tough on vehicle alternators to charge really dead batteries)

4) I would be very surprised if there will be a problem with warranty coverage as a result of you making the necessary repairs to get through your trip.

5) Most areas have someone in the "mobile RV repair" business. That is a service that is ideal for the situation you are on although obviously you will have to pay them unless you can somehow convince Airstream to do so (possible but unlikely, I'd try having that conversation with the dealer you bought the trailer from). If the converter has to be replaced, you're looking at maybe a $300-$400 repair all told.

6) Finally I will point out that while converters do fail even while fairly new, it is perhaps more common for the wiring to them to fail, either on the AC or DC side.
__________________
To learn to see below the surface, you must adjust your altitude
Jammer is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
1st Big Trip, 1st Big Issues! trekerboy On The Road... 17 07-13-2016 07:07 AM
Maiden Trip Cut Short: Converter or Batteries Failure KJRitchie Batteries, Univolts, Converters & Inverters 50 07-06-2014 11:27 PM
Big Big Trip...11 Day Countdown!! weirdstuff On The Road... 11 05-31-2014 08:01 AM
follow-up to Maiden Trip Cut Short: Converter or Batteries Failure sldflyfish Electrical - Systems, Generators, Batteries & Solar 15 05-21-2013 03:08 PM
Middle Twins to Middle or Rear Queen? fastrob General Interior Topics 12 02-27-2006 02:12 PM


Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by the Airstream, Inc. or any of its affiliates. Airstream is a registered trademark of Airstream Inc. All rights reserved. Airstream trademark used under license to Social Knowledge LLC.



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:57 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.