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Old 01-05-2016, 09:16 AM   #113
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1956 22' Flying Cloud
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Installing gray tanks, part 1

With advice from VTS, Colin Hyde, and several Airforums threads, I decided to use 20-gauge galvanized sheet metal straps to hang the two gray tanks from the cross members (some of which I had welded in place, see here and here.

Tools and materials:
Galvanized sheet steel straps
Bending brake (if straps need to be fitted to frame)
Flashing for straps

I incorrectly ordered 4” straps, rather than 2” straps, and that made assembly much more difficult. My advice is that you stay with 2” straps. I installed one tank with 4” straps, but then I cut one of the 4” straps into two 2” straps, and that made installation of the second tank much easier.

Techniques:

My major problems came from the fact that I did not have much room between the side of the gray tank and the cross-member of the frame. That made it very difficult to get a wrench in place to tighten down the nut/bolt assembly that attached the strap to the cross-member.

I had purchased several years ago a 30” Harbor Freight bending brake. It is not particularly sturdy (or meant for heavy gauge metal), but it worked perfectly well for this task with 20-gauge galvanized sheet steel. I had to clean and degrease the brake, but that took only a few minutes, and then it was ready to go.

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I clamped the brake to my workbench, clamped the galvanized steel to the brake, and bent away:

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I doubled over each end of the strap so that the bolt assembly would pass through double thickness of the strap. I actually had too much length on my straps and I ended up cutting off some metal from each end so that the doubling extended only slightly beyond the bolt hole, not any further.

I applied adhesive flashing material (from Lowe's) on the inside of the strap (the side against the gray tank) to prevent the strap from cutting the Prodex or the tank:

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Old 01-05-2016, 09:33 AM   #114
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1956 22' Flying Cloud
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Installing gray tanks, part 2

Tools:
Bolts, nuts, washers, wrenches, and Loctite
Tanks wrapped with insulation
Drill and bit matched to bolt size.

Techniques:
To install a tank in the belly, I first drilled holes through the cross-members for the bolts that were to attach the straps to the cross-members. I spaced the holes (1) about 1/3 of the way in from the main frame rails (18, as I now remember) and (2) about half way between the top and bottom of the cross-member. The plan was to have the strap come up against the tank on the inside of the cross-member and have the bolt pass through the strap and the cross member.

Tank #1. I just did not have enough room to do what I intended because the C-shaped cross-member opened towards the tank, and that made it impossible for me to secure the nut & bolt assembly. I tried many different ways, but I eventually gave up, reconfigured the strap, and brought the strap up the outside of the C-shaped cross member. That clearly is not the best outcome because the tank, in effect, is being supported from the very bottom of that cross-member, rather than hanging from a higher point on the cross-member, but at least the opposite side of the tank was being supported from a higher point on the opposite cross-member (the red material in the photo is Loctite to hold the locknut in place):

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My advice: if you reconfigure or add a cross member, have the "C" face away from the tank, not towards the tank.

Tank #2. With tank #2, the bay was longer (front to back), and I had more room to work. I was able to hang this tank with the straps coming up against the tank on the inside of the cross-member.

Installing tubing around openings in frame. To protect the PVC pipe, I cut and installed tubing around the holes in the cross members:

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You can see the tubing in place in the first photo above.

Tanks roughed in (note that the closest tank has 4" straps and the far tank has 2" straps):

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Old 01-05-2016, 09:57 AM   #115
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1956 22' Flying Cloud
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Replacement of front C channel as hold-down anchor

I previously removed the exterior panel under the front window (see here). 8038 did not have a large hold-down plate under the front window, and I decided to add a more sturdy C channel as a better hold-down anchor.

Tools:
Hack saw, cutoff tool, or multi-tool to cut aluminum C channel and steel bolts.
Chisel
Punch
Heavy gauge aluminum C channel (I do not have the information at hand, but I imagine that the C channel was made of 1/8" thick aluminum)

Techniques:

1. I cut the replacement C channel to be slightly shorter that the straight portion of the existing C channel under the front window.

2. I measured to center the replacement C channel, and then I marked where I need to cut to remove the existing C channel.

3. I removed the clecos holding the exterior wall panels to that portion of the C channel.

4. I needed to remove the green-colored section of C-channel (in the center of the following photo) that was attached to the frame via three elevator bolts.

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From underneath the trailer, I used my cut-off tool to cut through (as close to the angle iron as possible) each of the three elevator bolts and nuts.

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I used a cold chisel to knock off some of the residue:

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Finally, I used a punch to drive up, from under the trailer, the shaft of the elevator bolt. With that done, I removed the piece of green C channel.

5. Next, I cut and removed the original C channel sections on either side of the piece of green C channel so that I would have room for the new, more lengthy, and more sturdy piece of C channel. Before cutting that original C channel on either side, I should have placed a wood screw (after drilling a hole through the C channel) near where the end of the C channel would be (after the cut out) to hold in place the C channel that would remain. Instead, I cut the C channel and then inserted the wood screw. I think I had the C channel in the correct place when I inserted the screw, but it would have been better to insert the screw before I made the cut and made that section of C channel free-floating.
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Old 01-05-2016, 10:03 AM   #116
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1956 22' Flying Cloud
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Subfloor hole repairs

Before shutting down for the winter, I finished repairing the holes in the subfloor. See here for my prior work to fill the holes.

Tools:
Belt sander

Techniques:
I sanded the hole inserts flush with the floor:
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That's it until next spring when I get back to work on 8038.

Hank
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Old 01-05-2016, 06:51 PM   #117
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1986 34' Limited
1966 24' Tradewind
Conifer , Colorado
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You have been busy! Installing a gray water system is tough work. Your install went well in spite of the problems encountered. Every time I did something, I had at least two "reworks" to do before the job was done right. I had difficulty hanging my tanks also. I use angle irons that ride on the tank shoulders (I selected "T" shaped tanks) and I hung the angle irons from the top frame rail flange. It was hard to get the fasteners tight. No room to work. But I eventually made it.

That's why I'm a hobbyists instead of a professional.

Enjoy the winter weeks. Go ice fishing!

David
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Old 04-26-2016, 11:33 AM   #118
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1956 22' Flying Cloud
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Back at work

I have returned to Montana until the fall, and I am back at work on 8038.

I have two Fantastic Vent fans on the way, and I decided to reinforce the vent framing and generally reinforce the ribs and cross-stringers in the roof. To do that, I used short pieces of aluminum angle that had holes through each leg of the angle. That let me bolt the angles to the intersecting ribs and stringers.

Tools and supplies:
Miter saw
Drill press
Grinder
Cut-off tool
Aluminum angle (I used 1" x 1", but at some joints, I needed longer legs, so I recommend at least 1 1/2" x 1 1/2")
3/4" length, 1/4" diameter hex head bolts, washers, and locknuts (I probably used about 60 of each)

Techniques:
I first cut the long angle into short sections. Sometimes the angle would go on the outside of the c channel, and sometimes it would have to go within the c channel. To fit within the c channel, the angle section needs to be cut at less than 1 1/2", and I recommend 1 1/4".

I used my miter saw with a blade devoted to cutting aluminum. I used a stop block so that the cuts would be at the correct location:
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I then drilled a 1/4" hole in each leg of the angle:
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I drilled the hole in the middle of each leg, but I suggest that you drill the hole as far to the outside of the leg as possible, as that will give you more flexibility in installing the angle.

Instead of cutting the long angle into short sections and then drilling, it would have been much easier to mark and drill the holes before cutting into short sections.

After cutting and drilling, I took the angle sections to the grinder to clean up rough edges. Be forewarned: grinding aluminum can foul your grinding wheel, so grind lightly to avoid melting the aluminum onto the grinding wheel.

Next, I went to 8038 and started installing the angles. I would hold the angle in place and mark with a Sharpie through the hole on one of the legs. Then I would remove the angle and drill through the marked rib or stringer. I found it easier first to drill a small (1/8") pilot hole with one drill and then drill the 1/4" hole with a second drill.

I then installed the bolt, washer, and lock nut for that leg of the angle. Next, I used my hand to position the angle for a snug fit with the intersecting rib or stringer and drilled the 1/4" hole by guiding the drill bit through the 1/4" hole in the second leg of the angle. I finished by installing the bolt, washer, and locknut for the second leg of the angle.
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Depending on the size of your angles and spacing of the holes, your two bolt assemblies may be close to one another, and you need to instal the bolts in such a way that the two assemblies can be tightened.

Sometimes I had to cut off part of the angle to fit where I wanted it. I took that section of the angle to my vise and then used a cut-off tool to remove whatever was required:
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It is good to be back at work on 8038.

Hank
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Old 04-26-2016, 07:14 PM   #119
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1986 34' Limited
1966 24' Tradewind
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Hey, welcome back. Keep us posted on how the renovation comes along. Seems like every step of the way you are making your Flying Cloud better.

David
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Old 05-01-2016, 09:47 PM   #120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dbj216 View Post
Hey, welcome back. Keep us posted on how the renovation comes along. Seems like every step of the way you are making your Flying Cloud better.

David
Thanks, David, for your encouragement. I have completed several more tasks, and I will post on them as soon as I can.

Hank
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Old 05-01-2016, 10:26 PM   #121
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Back to the hold-down plate

I previously posted about the lack of a real hold-down plate for 8038. See here. I now have finished up the substitute hold-down plate.

Some Airstreams came with a steel hold down plate that extends 6" or more above the level of the subfloor, but 8038 did not have that (it had only a piece of steel angle under the subfloor running between the two main frame rails), so I cut out the normal c channel under the front window, and I replaced it with a much more sturdy piece of aluminum c channel.

After cutting out the original c channel (in this post), I epoxied (the LiquidWood two-part epoxy) the wood subfloor (I used the clamps to compress the subfloor where some plies had separated) and let it dry (I previously had removed the sidewall panel underneath the front window):
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The original c channel had some sort of gasket material underneath it, and I used some thin rubber sheet as a replacement.

I cut the replacement piece of c channel (1/8" thickness, I think) to length. On my drill press, I drilled a 1/4" hole near each end of the replacement c channel. I then clamped the replacement piece in place. I used my hand-held electrical drill with a 1/4" bit to drill through the subfloor, using the previously drilled hole in the c channel as a pilot hole. I installed a 1/4" hex bolt from the top side and then installed a fender washer and lock washer from below.

With those two bolts holding the new c channel in place, I got under the trailer and drilled up through the three holes in the steel angle (underneath the subfloor) and through the new c channel. I ended up with 5 of the 1/4" bolts holding the new c channel to the floor, and three of the bolts are through the steel angle.

Next, the exterior sidewall pieces that wrap around the two front corners needed to be attached to the new c channel. To do that and get a good fit, I had to remove a lot of black spray-on gunk from the inside of the wraparound pieces. I used my multi-tool chisel (see here) and then my electrical drill with a wire brush attached.
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I clamped the wraparound sidewall piece in place, and using the holes in the sidewall piece as a pilot hole, drilled through the new c channel (and installed temporary clecos):
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Next up: trying to polish the wraparound sidewall pieces.

Hank
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Old 05-01-2016, 10:45 PM   #122
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1956 22' Flying Cloud
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Trying to polish the front corner wraparound sidewall sheets

For my first attempt to polish the badly pitted wraparound sidewall pieces, see here. The results were very disappointing. These sidewall pieces take a terrible beating from rocks, etc., and the surface texture was very rough.

I decided to use sandpaper. I started with 500 grit sandpaper and progressed through 800, 1000, and 1200 grit (all wet sandpaper). I used a spray bottle of water to keep the surface wet (and clean of the residue of sanding). I used a sponge to hold the sandpaper in place because I did not want a flat surface forming the sandpaper while applying it to a curved surface.

After sanding:
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I now think that I should have gone to even higher grit count because I ended up with some faint sanding marks that the polisher did not remove.

The sanding did smooth the surface, and after polishing the surface looked better (but the worst portion of the sheet, down low on the panel, does not show in the photo):
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Is it like a replacement panel?: No!
Does it look great?: No
Does it look good enough?: We will see

Hank
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Old 05-01-2016, 11:16 PM   #123
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1956 22' Flying Cloud
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Replacement rear panel with baggage hatch

As discussed here, I will install a baggage hatch under the rear window (8038 has one baggage hatch near the rear of the curbside sidewall).

This afternoon I used the to-be-discarded panel under the rear window to create a template to cut the baggage hatch in the new panel that I will install. I measured the dimensions of the hatch frame (the part that must fit through the hole in the exterior sheet) and then used a Sharpie to mark the opening on the old panel:
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Tools:
Hand-held drill plus drill bits
"Tin snips"
Air-powered shear

Techniques:
I drilled a 1/8" hole in each of the four corners of the cut and used that hole as a pilot hole for a larger drill bit (large enough for my air shear tool to get started within the hole). Place your pilot hole enough inside the corner that the hole created by the larger drill bit stays within the lines.

I had never made a long cut with the shear, and it did not go real smoothly, but the cuts were mostly on line.
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I used metal snips to clean up the corners and rough spots:
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Even better, the frame fit perfectly with the required overlap of the hatch frame on the panel (so that the rivets coming through the hatch frame can attach to solid metal of the sheet; if the cutout in the sheet is too big, the rivet holes in the hatch frame may not have solid metal underneath).
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I will use this piece of sheet aluminum to markup the new piece of aluminum that I will install under the rear window (more on that later).

Hank
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Old 05-03-2016, 08:29 AM   #124
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1956 22' Flying Cloud
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Rear baggage hatch, Part 2

I made more progress on the baggage hatch yesterday.

After I cut the opening for the frame of the hatch, I drilled the holes for rivets to anchor the frame to the panel. To do that, I squared up the frame and pulled it into place with a clamp before drilling:
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I drilled two holes (one near the top and one near the bottom) through the short side of the frame, and I then added a piece of c channel to brace up the whole panel (one on each side of the hatch frame). I want the rivets holding the sides of the hatch frame to pass through both the panel and the c channel.

To drill through and cleco the c channel pieces, I switched back and forth between having the sheet face up and face down. The first two holes into the c channel I drilled from below while laying on the floor. After those two holes were drilled and the c channel clecoed to the panel, I could flip the panel and drill the remaining holes in the side of the hatch frame (through the panel and the new c channel) from above, which was much easier to do!

I want the c channel pieces to fit within the original c channel on the floor of 8038, so I trimmed up (and narrowed) the bottom of the c channel pieces on the panel. I cut the new c channel so that I could bend a tab on the bottom to screw into the c channel on the floor of 8038.
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I decided to to drill two rivet holes in the panel above the hatch opening to provide additional anchoring of the c channel to the panel.

I test fitted the revised panel, and it fit back together! I have a good template.
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Next up: cut the new panel from the large sheet of 2042 aluminum I had ordered.
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Old 05-10-2016, 12:02 PM   #125
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1956 22' Flying Cloud
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Rear baggage hatch, Part 3

I finished the replacement rear panel and baggage hatch several days ago.

Tools & materials.
Air shear
Tin snips
Hand-held electric (or air) drill
Hole saw attachment for drill
Aluminum sheet for replacement panel
Belt sander
Clecos

Techniques. First, I cut the replacement panel from a larger sheet of 2024 .032 alclad. I had two factory cut edges, and the top of the new sheet will be under the rear window frame, so there was only one edge (of the two) that I cut with my air shears that I needed to clean up after the shear cut. I ended up using my belt sander to clean up the roughness in my shear cut:
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I clamped the old panel on top of the new sheet, and then (1) marked the various cutouts and (2) drilled rivet holes in the new sheet using the old panel rivet holes as pilot holes for the new sheet rivet holes. I supported the two sheets with scrap wood underneath wherever I was drilling. To make sure there was no movement as between the old and new sheets, I installed clecos as I drilled.
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For the taillight openings, I first used a hole saw and then I finished the holes with tin snips:
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I have not yet installed the replacement panel, but I am hopeful that it will fit in place.

Hank
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Old 05-10-2016, 12:20 PM   #126
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1956 22' Flying Cloud
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New front panel

The sheet aluminum panel under the front window was badly pitted, plus it has the original fresh water inlet, which I will not use, so I decided to replace the panel.

Tools and materials: same as for the rear panel.

Techniques. The panel was bent at the bottom, so I had a more difficult time getting the old sheet to lay flat on the new sheet (which I had cut using the air shear and then the belt sander, as I had done with the rear panel replacement), but I came up with this layout to keep everything flat:
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I drilled the rivet holes in the two sides, and then I laid out the floating c channel pieces to make sure that the old sheet rivet holes in the interior of the sheet were holes that I needed to drill.
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The front sheet was a breeze compared to the rear panel, which required adding the baggage hatch and supporting c channels.

Done with exterior panel replacement (except for installation)!

Hank
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