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Old 06-04-2017, 08:52 AM   #181
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Originally Posted by RankAm View Post
I spent several days working on a very crude mockup of the interior of 8038.


The layout is pretty conventional except for my plan to stack the two single beds. I am trying to save space by overlapping the foot of each bed (which will be at different heights). The bed across the rear will be low, and the bed on the curb side will be high (and will taper at the foot to leave full access to the rear escape window). The difference in bed heights will have to be enough so that there is adequate foot room for the lower bed where the two beds overlap at the curb rear corner.

Attachment 286303

Lots of decisions yet to be made, but it was fun to rough it out.

Hank
I just stumbled on to your page and I find the thought process interesting...I am at this junction of interior planning and even b4 I saw your thread, my wife and I decided we would stack our beds. However my bottom bunk is street side and the top bunk will be left to right against the rear and just under the window.
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Old 06-07-2017, 04:06 PM   #182
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Front panel replacement

I previously removed the alclad sheet under the front window because it was so beat up. I used the old sidewall piece as a template to mark, cut, and drill new sheet alclad as a replacement sidewall piece. I placed the old piece on top of the new piece, anchored the two pieces to the work surface (with scrap wood underneath), and drilled holes in the new piece by using the rivet holes in the old piece as pilot holes. I drilled going vertically up the two sides of the piece, but I did not drill matching holes across the top or the bottom of the new sidewall piece.

I did not drill matching holes across the top of the new sidewall piece because I will drill those holes after I have the front window frame clecoed in place (on the top and two sides of the window frame), and I will use the holes across the bottom of the window frame as pilot holes for the top of my new sidewall piece.

I did not drill matching holes across the bottom of the new sidewall piece because I first wanted the new sidewall piece in the correct position as to the rivet lines on the two sides of the new piece. I had installed a new piece of 1/8" c channel as a hold-down plate (see here), and I had marked the outside of the new sidewall piece for where to drill holes, but I did not drill those holes at the bottom of the sidewall piece until the sidewall piece was clecoed in on both sides.

The replacement sidewall piece came off of a large 4' x 8' piece of sheet alclad that had been rolled. When I worked with the replacement piece, it wanted to bend, and it was hard to work on by myself. Eventually, I was able to cleco the detached pieces of c-channel that support and stiffen the center part of the piece, and that made it easier to reattach the piece.

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I started by clecoing down one side of the sidewall piece (I started with the curb side of the sidewall piece). I next clecoed down the opposite side (the street side). That properly positioned the piece so that I could drill new holes into the new hold-down piece (see the layout lines at the bottom of the pice in the following photo).

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As I was clecoing, I also was capturing with the cleco the c-channel ribs and stringers that had been riveted to the original sidewall piece. I was glad that I had lots of photos from my demolition and that I had marked each piece I removed to explain its location and use.

It all came together with a good fit. No more ugly front sidewall metal on 8038. Eventually, the plastic film will have to be removed, clecos replaced with rivets, and the piece polished, but that will be another day.

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Hank
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Old 01-19-2018, 11:39 AM   #183
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Slow progress

I realize that my progress on 8038 has been painfully slow, and there may not be much interest in this thread, but I have made modest progress during June-October 2017. In the next few days, I will make postings to bring my progress up-to-date.

My slow progress has surprised, but not discouraged, me. Reasons for my slow progress?: I have been more busy in retirement than I thought I would be, I lacked skills and experience on many Airstream tasks, and I tend to over-study things before taking action. That said, I still think that restoring an Airstream is a great learning experience and is great fun.

The big news is that I gave up on purely amateur work on 8038: I brought in the cavalry in the form of Uwe Salwender of Area 63 Productions in southern California. He came to Montana and spent 5 days working with me. He primarily worked on (created) the electrical system, but he also assisted with some window issues and other tasks. He is a very hard worker, and his effort on the electrical system was way beyond my skills, so his work was very welcome (and it gave me peace of mind that the electrical system was not dangerous!).

I returned to Texas in late fall, and 8038 awaits the spring when I return to Montana to get back to return to work on her.

The following posts will describe what was accomplished during the fall of 2017.

Hank
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Old 01-19-2018, 11:56 AM   #184
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Wheel well stiffener

I think that 8038 had several tire blowouts during its life, and those blowouts damaged the wheel wells. I previously posted here about adding a piece of J-trim to the sidewall metal of the wheel well.

In this post, I asked about another damaged part of the wheel well: the stiffener that is riveted to the inside of the wheel well sidewall. I had examined the stiffeners on 8038, and they were very beat up (and probably not stiffening the sidewall very well). The original stiffener was a light-gauge aluminum angle. Here is what the stiffeners looked like after I removed them:
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I will describe in this post what I did about the stiffeners. I first thought about trying reform the angle pieces, but each of the pieces was shot. Instead, I split a piece of scrap aluminum c-channel into the two pieces of angle that I needed:
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I used a grinder with a cut-off wheel to cut the c-channel. I then used a file and sandpaper to de-bur the cuts.

I held the stiffener in place on the inside of the wheel well and, with a Sharpie through the sidewall, I marked the place for several pilot holes in the stiffener. I then used clecos and my spare hand to hold the stiffener in place while I drilled the other pilot holes in the stiffener for the rivets.

The streetside wheel well was the worst, with some stretching and a tear in the sidewall metal. To get the streetside stiffener in the correct location, I used clamps to keep the sidewall straight as I drilled pilot holes and installed the stiffener:
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This image shows the J-trim and the stiffener riveted in place:
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Old 01-19-2018, 12:05 PM   #185
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Floor painting

I previously posted about my sanding of the floor of 8038. I had several helpers one day, and I had them apply a coat of porch paint using a brush around the perimeter and a roller elsewhere.

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The next day, I applied a second coat.

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Old 01-19-2018, 07:15 PM   #186
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Hello Hank: Glad to see an update on your big project. These wheel well stiffeners look great. Who said you don't have all the skills needed?

I started working on a 75 Overlander last fall. This project is not to the extent of your project, but it is extensive in it's own right. I enjoy working with my hands and solving problems like you did with your wheel wells.

A little bit at a time, the project will get done.

David
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Old 02-11-2018, 09:12 AM   #187
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Window repair and installation

I mostly work solo on 8038, but I am fortunate to have some friends who help when another set of hands is necessary. My friend and I completed a good bit of riveting during the summer and autumn of 2017. This post shows the rear panel and escape window work. Next, we started riveting window back frames in place. Some of the riveting went well, and some not so well.

I decided to not replace the original, 1956-version window gasket (that is riveted between the window back frame and the sidewall). Instead, I decided to rivet the window back frame directly to the sidewall. To get a tight fit between the back frame and the swinging part of the window, I will install a “D” gasket to the inside of the swinging window frame, and to get a good seal with that “D” gasket, I used flush-mount/flat head rivets to attach the back frame to the sidewall (see here). Raised-head rivets would interfere with a tight gasket fit.

A challenge for me was driving flush-head rivets through the back frame and the coach sidewall, especially when the flat rivet head is pre-lubricated with Trempro (which helps the flat-head rivet set slide off the rivet head). Here is an example of some ugly flat-head rivet driving:

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That was pretty sorry riveting. I agonized for a while, and then I decided to redo the window. I drilled out all those rivets and used a solid-shank putty knife and short shank hammer to free the backframe from the sidewall.

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The second go was better than the first, and Uwe (see this post) taught me a few tricks.

He recommended that I buy a tool kit for auto body work. I bought this one from Harbor Freight, and I have ended up using the tools for a number of tasks. The hammer with the flat striking surface head was very useful in trying to level out some of the bumps created by my poor riveting.

The next post continues the story about window riveting problems.
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Old 02-11-2018, 09:39 AM   #188
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Problems with large-size windows

8038 has two large windows that have a fixed upper part and a swinging lower part. These two-part windows are at the front of the trailer. One is curbside just to the front of the entry door, and the other one is streetside opposite the entry door. My problems came with the upper part of the window that does not swing open. The problem is that these window frames hold a flat glass pane, but the frame must be attached to 8038's sidewall that is curving, and that curve creates stress on the frame and difficulty in riveting the frame to the sidewall.

This post describes how, during my cleaning and polishing of the largest of the two-part windows, I had a catch with my buffer, and the frame was damaged. I worked to restore that frame (see here), and I think that I changed the shape of the frame. I think that I made the frame too flat to conform to the sidewall of the trailer.

After I finished my repairs and polishing of that frame, I installed the glass into the frame and then dry-fitted and clecoed the frame to the trailer sidewall. It was clear that the window frame did not conform very well to the sidewall because it was difficult to get clecos to hold in all the holes. I hoped that, when two of us riveted the window frame, the frame would conform to the sidewall.

When we began the riveting, every hole in the frame was clecoed to the sidewall except the two bottom corner holes of the upper frame. The window frame was so far from the sidewall at those two corners that a cleco would not hold. We drove each rivet (generally skipping around the perimeter of the frame) after removing only the cleco in that rivet hole. Eventually, we worked down the frame from top to bottom (maybe we should have started in the middle of the frame and alternated between riveting above the midline and below the midline). As we got closer to the bottom (of the upper frame), it took increasing pressure by the person with the rivet gun to push on the rivet and force the frame snug to the sidewall before driving the rivet. Even with a third person’s help (pushing from the outside on the upper frame to close the gap), we could not drive the two bottom corner rivets (and we badly buggered up one rivet hole). Here is what resulted:

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My team quit the effort, and Uwe dealt with this problem. He could see that the window frame had to be reformed to hold the glass properly and permit some bending of the upper frame to conform to the sidewall. He left the frame (which was mostly riveted in place) in the sidewall, but to get some flex in the window frame, I drilled out the 3 rivets above the corner rivet. I then cleaned the Trempro by using a long shaft q-tip dipped into mineral spirits.

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From the inside of 8038, Uwe removed the plate glass by removing the four aluminum trim pieces that hold the plate and press the plate against the frame (and against the gasket around the perimeter of the frame opening). He used wide mouth, seam-sealer pliers like this to reform the part of the frame:

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Here is what I think the window frame should look like (note that the glass sits proud of the frame).

Here is the streetside window after he worked on it:

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He also reformed the curbside window next to the entry door because of a poor fit of the plate glass in the upper, fixed part of the window frame. I probably flattened this frame when I cleaned, straightened, and polished the frame on the workbench. Uwe was worried about a water leak around the plate glass, so he reformed this curbside window frame in addition to the streetside window frame.

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After he finished the frame reforming, Uwe reinstalled the plate glass against the window gasket (that seals the plate glass to the window frame). We both were surprised that the gasket did not fit the same way as it had when I originally reassembled the windows on the workbench. After Uwe’s work, there was extra gasket, so the pressure on the gasket must have been different!

My advice: if you remove window frames to clean and polish them, be careful not to change the shape of the frame. Flatten the frame as little as possible.

Hank
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Old 02-11-2018, 10:01 AM   #189
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Hank, your last post brought back bad memories dealing with those windows. What a design. Glad you’re posting. Looking great and keep up the good work. Bubba
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Old 02-11-2018, 12:52 PM   #190
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Originally Posted by Bubba L View Post
Hank, your last post brought back bad memories dealing with those windows. What a design. Glad you’re posting. Looking great and keep up the good work. Bubba
Thanks, Bubba.

Our projects were big ones, weren't they?

I have a few more posts to make about my 2017 activities.

Hank
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Old 02-11-2018, 01:05 PM   #191
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Self-etching primer for interior wall metal

I removed all the interior wall sheet aluminum and stripped the old paint off.

I intend to Zolatone eventually, and I have been told that I should apply a self-etching primer before spraying on the Zolatone.

I first tried to apply the paint with a HVLP paint sprayer, but I was not happy with the coverage, and I stripped off that primer.

Eventually, I went to an autoparts store that had a paint division, and I purchased a two-part MasterPro self-etching primer:

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It does take space to do this:

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Old 02-11-2018, 01:26 PM   #192
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Drain holes through c channel

On the advice of Uwe, I decided to make drain holes within the walls. The hope is that any water that gets inside of the outside skins will get trapped between the outside and inside walls and end up in the c channel. The idea is to trap the water in the c channel and let it drain out through a hole (rather than find its way into the subfloor or inside the cabin).

To accomplish this, I:
1. Made separate closed-in sections of c channel by pop riveting scrap aluminum where there was an opening in the upright leg of the c channel.
2. Made the c channel sections water-tight by using Tempro to seal up all the joints.
3. Drilled a 1/2" hole through each separate section of the c channel and the subfloor (so that the water will drain into the belly area).
4. Cut 1/2" O.D. copper tube into approximately 2" pieces.
5. Flared one end of the 2" pieces.
6. Applied Trempro around the flared end of the piece.
7. Gently tapped the flared piece into hole and cleaned up Trempro squeeze-out.

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Old 02-11-2018, 01:43 PM   #193
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Roof metal for Fantastic Vent

I have installed two Fantastic Vents, one in the front roof vent, and the other in the rear roof vent (I have closed/covered the middle roof vent).

The rear roof opening was not the correct size, and I had to add to the roof a piece of sheet aluminum to house the base of the Fantastic Vent.

To add that housing piece, I had to drill out some round-head rivets that would have been under the housing piece. Round head rivets would interfere with a good, flush fit of the housing piece, so I removed the round-head rivets, counter-sunk the rivet holes, and drove flush-mount rivets.

As to the metal piece, I first made a cardboard template (the cut-out on one corner was to avoid a round-head rivet):

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Metal in place:

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Installed:

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Old 02-11-2018, 01:58 PM   #194
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Baggage hatch 120v power

I wanted to have 120v power on the curbside of the coach, so I installed a duplex plug in the curbside belly hatch. One of the plugs is shore power, and the other plug is battery/inverter power. To make a dual supply plug, I cut the connector between the two plugs:

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I separately wired the two plugs: one is supplied by shore power, the other by inverter power:

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I enclosed the duplex unit in a weather-proof housing:

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Old 02-11-2018, 06:42 PM   #195
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Thanks for the great update on your 56 Flying Cloud renovation.

There is a lot of fancy sheet metal work completed in your shop. Much more than I can do. Heck, I've never done real riveting. I did see a lot of it done during my Jackson Center tour and certainly understand the mechanics involved. Rivets are a very good fastening system.

Keep your project going. This Flying Cloud will be a tremendous vintage Airstream when done.

David
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Old 02-11-2018, 08:14 PM   #196
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RankAm View Post
I wanted to have 120v power on the curbside of the coach, so I installed a duplex plug in the curbside belly hatch. One of the plugs is shore power, and the other plug is battery/inverter power. To make a dual supply plug, I cut the connector between the two plugs:

Attachment 304014

I separately wired the two plugs: one is supplied by shore power, the other by inverter power:

Attachment 304015

I enclosed the duplex unit in a weather-proof housing:

Attachment 304016

Hank

Hank, I continue to admire your work and follow the story.

This idea is brilliant, and I wish I had done it myself. I did something similar on the street side to hide my tank valves.

Best, Matt
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Old 02-11-2018, 08:50 PM   #197
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Hank, since you have your renovation on your mind, I have a question. Our door within a door has been polished, hardware removed, and ready to re-insulate. I took some of the interior skins off for templates and replaced with clecos. The door gets awfully flimsy. The door within doesn’t conform perfectly to the outer door nor does the entire assembly conform perfectly to the trailer opening. With some of the skin off, does it hurt to tweak the framing a bit for a better fit? Or, will I screw something up? I would appreciate your opinion when time allows. Thanks, Bubba.
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Old 02-13-2018, 02:30 PM   #198
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubba L View Post
Hank, since you have your renovation on your mind, I have a question. Our door within a door has been polished, hardware removed, and ready to re-insulate. I took some of the interior skins off for templates and replaced with clecos. The door gets awfully flimsy. The door within doesn’t conform perfectly to the outer door nor does the entire assembly conform perfectly to the trailer opening. With some of the skin off, does it hurt to tweak the framing a bit for a better fit? Or, will I screw something up? I would appreciate your opinion when time allows. Thanks, Bubba.
Bubba, I have rehabbed my door, but I have not addressed the fit of the door to the coach.

Here are some references that I have collected over the years:

1. http://vintageairstream.com/overhauling-the-door/

2. The folks having problems with their door not matching the curvature of the side of the trailer can "recurve" the door very easily. All you need to do is place a piece of wood near the center of the door - near the latch - and push the door closed on the wood gently. Then push the door at the top and the bottom at the same time like you were trying to push it closed with the wood in the way. Push on the door a few times, then check your results. You will be amazed at how easy it is to get the door back to matching the curvature of the trailer after a few tries and moving the wood up and down to get the match as good as you would like it. I have done this on my 1998 34' Limited after the wind caught the door and slammed it open again the stop in the open position and "straightened" the door. I have also used the "fix" for several folks as we travel with caravans over the years. One guy had an appointment at some Airstream dealer in Texas with an estimate of $200 to fix his door. I dug out my piece of 2X4 wood I had used on my door, and we had his door better than it had ever been in 10 minutes - the charge was $0,00 plus saving him a 2.5 hour drive each way to the dealer. Two other rigs came and requested the "fix" before the caravan was over. Joe Scudder 1998 34' Limited FK WBCCI 8624

3. http://www.airforums.com/forums/f480...tml#post678949

I also will email you some useful materials I obtained at the Vintage Trailer Academy.

I hope this helps.

Hank
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Old 02-13-2018, 04:26 PM   #199
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Thanks Hank. This helps a lot. Bubba
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Old 02-15-2018, 07:52 AM   #200
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Thanks Hank. This helps a lot. Bubba
Bubba, I tried to send you an email asking you to email me (so that I could send you some materials). Did you receive it?

Hank
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