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Old 08-21-2013, 10:39 PM   #29
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Is the idea of using spray foam a way of getting more insulating value without taking skins off? If so, I don't think it would be a great solution for a couple of reasons:
  • What about the old insulation already there? Skins will have to be removed to get that out...
  • Any kind of spray foam would be difficult to apply evenly w/o taking off the skins and trimming it.
  • How would you know if if was applied everywhere to maximize the insulation effect? Again, skins would have to be removed to verify...
  • Aluminum being so soft and flexible, in areas that too much expanding foam was sprayed in the gap (assuming the skins are both intact) it could dent/oil can the shell.
  • If for some reason you have a repair to be made, like fishing an electrical wire - it's going to be more difficult.
  • During a repair - several years down the road...what about the compatibility of old vs new foam products? Will one dissolve the other?
  • If it doesn't work, you are going to have a big mess to clean up.

I don't know, but it seems that if it was "the perfect solution" Airstream would be using it. Sounds like they tried it & it didn't work - for whatever reason, and they haven't tried it again.

Shari
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Old 08-22-2013, 09:08 PM   #30
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Thanks,Putback, for taking the time to identify the foam. Yes, I'm looking for maximum R-value on a total redo. Skins would be removed. What is the max r-value and material or combination of materials others have used? I am not dead set on foam. I just thought foam would be one of the higher r-value materials.
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Old 08-22-2013, 09:13 PM   #31
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There was one post talking about a reflective insulation that comes in rolls. It was thicker than the stuff you buy at lowes. I want to say it had r14 value, but im Nit sure.


Ok found the post it's Prodex total boasting a r value of r16. But it's pricey...

http://m.insulation4less.com/Product...x?ProductID=20
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Old 08-23-2013, 06:25 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InsideOut View Post
Is the idea of using spray foam a way of getting more insulating value without taking skins off? If so, I don't think it would be a great solution for a couple of reasons:
  • What about the old insulation already there? Skins will have to be removed to get that out...
  • Any kind of spray foam would be difficult to apply evenly w/o taking off the skins and trimming it.
  • How would you know if if was applied everywhere to maximize the insulation effect? Again, skins would have to be removed to verify...
  • Aluminum being so soft and flexible, in areas that too much expanding foam was sprayed in the gap (assuming the skins are both intact) it could dent/oil can the shell.
  • If for some reason you have a repair to be made, like fishing an electrical wire - it's going to be more difficult.
  • During a repair - several years down the road...what about the compatibility of old vs new foam products? Will one dissolve the other?
  • If it doesn't work, you are going to have a big mess to clean up.

I don't know, but it seems that if it was "the perfect solution" Airstream would be using it. Sounds like they tried it & it didn't work - for whatever reason, and they haven't tried it again.

Shari
Interesting list...

However in Airstream's case I suspect one of two reasons...
  1. It would cut into profit margins
  2. we have always done it this way

Must my take on the situation. I have seen a couple of bus conversions where a spray foam of some sort was used, one of those buses had close to a half million miles on it since the conversion was done and the owner was still happy with the insulation job.

To me the single biggest advantage would be using a spray foam that doesn't absorb water.

Aaron
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Old 08-23-2013, 02:28 PM   #33
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I have doubts on the r-value of prodex. There is a lot of discussion on their claims online. Has anyone tried the aero gel insulation derivatives?
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Old 08-23-2013, 02:58 PM   #34
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I was thinking of using the basic "bubble foil" as an insulation versus fiberglass.
I was also contemplating using the hy-tech ceramic EPDM paint (they call it BUS-KOTE) on the INSIDE of the shell. It seemed like a good way to seal as well as add a radiant reflective barrier. Thoughts?
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Old 08-23-2013, 03:01 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by Ringoo7 View Post
Thanks,Putback, for taking the time to identify the foam. Yes, I'm looking for maximum R-value on a total redo. Skins would be removed. What is the max r-value and material or combination of materials others have used? I am not dead set on foam. I just thought foam would be one of the higher r-value materials.
I have no idea about the R values. I do have a '64 safari w/new fiberglass insulation and a '64 Avion T28 w/original foam sitting side by side in the back yard fully exposed to the environment. Under the summer sun the Avion is very noticeably cooler inside. In in heavy rain the Avion is much quieter inside. Even with those comps I'm still going with fiberglass in the '62 Ambassador rebuild because just can't see enough benefit to justify the potential problems. Sunny days I'm not sitting inside, rainy days I like the sound. If its late season cold and I need the heater I have to open some ventilation to avoid condensation negating the R value anyway. Fact is fiberglass has worked well enough as long as it isn't between the floor and the frame. But that's another debate.
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Old 08-23-2013, 03:32 PM   #36
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Are you saying you have condensation when using the heater in your Avion? If I use spray foam, it will be sprayed on a barrier material to form panels that can be removed to access wiring.
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Old 08-24-2013, 08:06 AM   #37
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The avion is used often for early spring fishing and late fall hunting in the northeast so the furnace is used often. Condensation under these circumstances is serious. On a typical 35/40 degree night with 4 people and not well vented not only the windows are wet in the morning, the lower 2/3rds of exposed interior walls are dripping water. Have used the safari under same conditions w/ 3 people and only have to crack a roof vent. Size and layout are different between the rigs, both have forced hot air furnaces. For an extreme example we've taken the fiberglass insulated safari, all water systems dry, ice fishing. That's on the lake, mid winter, sub zero nights. We have iced windows, entry door ect, but stay warm w/ only minor condensation. The only interior cooking allowed is coffee, much more does cause problems. There will be pros & cons to whatever you use to insulate. If summer heat is the primary concern foam may be the answer. There's no doubt in a side by side comp in the summer sun foam is way ahead of glass.
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