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Old 08-19-2013, 09:40 AM   #15
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One idea is to cover the sections between ribs with Mylar then spray foam to make form fitting panels eliminating the bond to the exterior skins. The panels could be removed for maintenance. This would eliminate the piece-mealing associated with rigid foam board insulation.
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Old 08-19-2013, 09:43 AM   #16
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One idea is to cover the sections between ribs with Mylar then spray foam to make form fitting panels eliminating the bond to the exterior skins. The panels could be removed for maintenance. This would eliminate the piece-mealing associated with rigid foam board insulation.
Excellent concept! Would it work with something other than Mylar? such as maybe Reynolds Wrap aluminum foil, which is a lot cheaper to buy?
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Old 08-19-2013, 10:11 AM   #17
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The spray-in insulation I'm familiar with isn't urethane foam. We didn't use urethane (or polyurethane) at our field sites due to numerous EPA complaints about its toxicity and the vapors it gives off from out-gassing. Being a Government agency, we have to take that sort of thing into account. As a private owner, you can make up your own mind. Aside from possible toxicity, urethane does have the advantes you cite.

If you use a urethane foam, ventilate to a fare-thee-well for as long as you can during and after installation, and if you get headaches or your eyes begin to feel like they've got sand in them while using the trailer, ventilate some more.
It sounds like your getting your foam insulations mixed up. Urethane foam doesn't have the problems you described with vapors and toxicity after installation. It has no formaldehydes and is safe with no vapors. It is the insulation that is most preferred in our area for new construction. It provides the tightest, highest R-Value per inch than any other insulation. I live in the home town of Dow Chemical Co, and they have their own brands of urethane spray foam on the market, no EPA issues in most installation situations. I say most because the EPA can find a problem with anything.
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Old 08-19-2013, 10:25 AM   #18
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It sounds like your getting your foam insulations mixed up. Urethane foam doesn't have the problems you described with vapors and toxicity after installation. It has no formaldehydes and is safe with no vapors. It is the insulation that is most preferred in our area for new construction. It provides the tightest, highest R-Value per inch than any other insulation. I live in the home town of Dow Chemical Co, and they have their own brands of urethane spray foam on the market, no EPA issues in most installation situations. I say most because the EPA can find a problem with anything.
You may be right; the more senior I get, the more "senior moments" I have.

But in my defense, I offer this:
Spray Polyurethane Foam (SPF) Home | Design for the Environment (DfE) | US EPA

I'm not enough of a chemist to know the difference between urethane and polyurethane, so the foam you cite may not be the same foam I cite.
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Old 08-19-2013, 11:03 AM   #19
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Current transport aircraft (airliners and business type) are insulated with blankets between the ribs. I am not sure what the material is, but it is not foam. The blankets allow the mechanics to easily move them out of the way when repairs are needed, then put them back.

It has been a couple of years since I last stopped over at the maintenance base, but that is what they use. I watched a show on the construction of the new B787 and it used the same blankets.
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Old 08-19-2013, 11:17 AM   #20
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Current transport aircraft (airliners and business type) are insulated with blankets between the ribs. I am not sure what the material is, but it is not foam. The blankets allow the mechanics to easily move them out of the way when repairs are needed, then put them back.

It has been a couple of years since I last stopped over at the maintenance base, but that is what they use. I watched a show on the construction of the new B787 and it used the same blankets.
Yep. That's what is used in the 777.
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Old 08-19-2013, 08:14 PM   #21
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Not sure foam is worth the risk in an Airstream. I have a '64 T28 avion. It is foam insulated. I removed 2 sections of interior skin and the foam was as new. However Avion has a rigid frame, little or no flex, and the morride suspension system. On the '62 ambassador I just striped down the p.o. had replaced the front 8 ft of floor. In doing so he'd removed the lower interior skins from the door around under the ft end cap and 6 ft down the street side. He replaced the fiberglass with spray foam insulation under said panels. The front foam under the endcap was moderately cracked and separated, but serviceable. The further towards the back it went the worse it was. Under the street side window the foam fell out in pieces, some the size of a deck of cards. I don't know what type of spray foam was used and the trailer was in need of a full restore. However in this case the foam failed. According to the p.o. the job was 5 yrs old.
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Old 08-19-2013, 08:44 PM   #22
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Thanks for the information. Is there any way to find out what foam was used by the po of the Airsrteam?
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Old 08-19-2013, 09:28 PM   #23
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Foams

I am a home builder and we use foams extensively in high end construction now. The brand we use is isonene which is a urethane, part A and B. The thing I would be worried about is the little heat that is generated from the chemical reaction would wrinkle and warp wide sections of panels. I am on the sprinter van forum as well and several guys had their vans sprayed only to find wavy bodywork after the job.

Also when you have to find a leak it is crazy. Like a surfboard with a leak you never know how much water has soaked up, where it is coming from etc.

I like how dense it is however.
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Old 08-20-2013, 02:44 AM   #24
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More fuel for the fire...Best friend had a metal qounset hut garage foamed, the foam withstands extreme heat from his wood burner chimney pass through, works amazing as far as insulating, deadens sound, and on the highly used ( but now significantly heavier) garage door that has been hit/slammed and dented a lot.... only 2 small pieces have separated in 5 years. That door slamming is a harsher impact than an AS should ever see. One issue is the fact the foam either has to be sprayed in low or overfilled and trimmed to flush, which "opens" all the closed cells on the trimmed side.
Fiberglass is under scrutiny as a known and identified carcinogen, is detectable in minute amounts in air all over the planet, and could possibly damage your lungs just like asbestos fibers, we all know how itchy it is when all those fibers pierce our skin, imagine your much more delicate lung tissues vs those same glass fibers ? Pick your poison I guess, everything man made in the chemical age turns out to be toxic after the last generation identifies its dangers for us, lead phase out, high VOC paints, PVC off gassing the most recent, PEX users beware come 2030 ! hows that for some gas on the fire !
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Old 08-20-2013, 03:54 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by Aviator View Post
Current transport aircraft (airliners and business type) are insulated with blankets between the ribs. I am not sure what the material is, but it is not foam. The blankets allow the mechanics to easily move them out of the way when repairs are needed, then put them back.

It has been a couple of years since I last stopped over at the maintenance base, but that is what they use. I watched a show on the construction of the new B787 and it used the same blankets.
According to a couple of aircraft mechanics I know the primary reason for using the blankets are two fold. Weight and the need to be able to routinely inspect ALL connections of frames on a periodic basis, as well as ease of repairs.

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Old 08-20-2013, 06:09 AM   #26
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My 69 ambassador has the spray foam on the bottom of the floor and on the frame. Once it gets wet it stays wet. Holds moisture right up next to the frame. If it stays dry it's great.

Did a real number on the frame. Plus it's a real mess to work with, very flammable, and is really a pain in the butt. It was only used in 69.
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Old 08-20-2013, 08:13 PM   #27
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Thanks for the information. Is there any way to find out what foam was used by the po of the Airsrteam?
The ph # is no longer in service. I'll show a piece to a couple contractors I know and get their opinion. May take a day or two.
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Old 08-21-2013, 06:34 PM   #28
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The ph # is no longer in service. I'll show a piece to a couple contractors I know and get their opinion. May take a day or two.
Got lucky, stopped by the local building supply early this A M. Lot of guys. All agreed the sample was common rattle can low expansion foam. Then the Fiberglass vs HIGH quality foam debate began. They reached concenses. "You know fiberglass works. If foam doesn't you are truly screwed!" So there you have it, you still have no certain answer..
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