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03-03-2009, 12:18 AM
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#1
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1 Rivet Member
1957 22' Flying Cloud
Odessa
, Washington
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 11
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Clecos - will I wish I had 'em?
Howdy Folks,
Can anyone out there enlighten me about clecos? As I learn about the restoration of these trailers I run accross their mention ocasionally and there's an article on a '56 Flying cloud restoration at www.vintageairstream.com where they are used extensively. I gather that they originate from the aircraft industy and are used to help align the sheet metal panels prior to riveting. A google search took me to an aircraft repair parts website that offered dozens of diferent types and sizes. Do you really need them? If so, what sizes/types and how many would you recommend? Why can't you just use rivets (un-pulled) to align the pieces?
I'm just about done with the rip-out phase (a term from my shipyard days) and I'm trying to be prepared without breaking the bank.
Thanks for any info you can provide.
__________________
John Whyte
Odessa, WA
(the geographic center of nowhere)
New to this forum, RV'ing & Airstreams
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03-03-2009, 01:13 AM
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#2
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Rivet Master
1963 19' Globetrotter
Laguna Beach
, California
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 766
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Will you wish you had them?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Nuke
Howdy Folks,
Can anyone out there enlighten me about clecos? As I learn about the restoration of these trailers I run accross their mention ocasionally and there's an article on a '56 Flying cloud restoration at www.vintageairstream.com where they are used extensively. I gather that they originate from the aircraft industy and are used to help align the sheet metal panels prior to riveting. A google search took me to an aircraft repair parts website that offered dozens of diferent types and sizes. Do you really need them? If so, what sizes/types and how many would you recommend? Why can't you just use rivets (un-pulled) to align the pieces?
I'm just about done with the rip-out phase (a term from my shipyard days) and I'm trying to be prepared without breaking the bank.
Thanks for any info you can provide.
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YES! Don't even 'think' of working on the aluminum panels without them.
Think of them as 'basting' stitches in tailoring... they hold the pieces (which are heavy) together and make the project manageable. Once you drill the holes it's a done deal as far as the aluminum goes... once a hole, always a hole! Then when you rivet, it's rather permanent....you really don't want to have to remove them so by holding the metal together... with 'clecos' first, on all sides of the panels you can see, just by the clecos holding the panels if there is a 'pucker' or a crease or a bulge against the frame...BEFORE you rivet. Then if there is an adjustment you can shift slightly to correct.
Aluminum is very heavy and hard to control... and 'razor' sharp! Don't ask me how I know! Just guessing that you'll need at least a hundred or so... for starters... and a maybe 50 or so 'larger' size for when you need to hold more than 2 sheets together at one seam. Yes... it's a BIG 'tailoring job' .... for the biggest suit a tailor could make! and one of the most expensive... don't scrimp on the tools.
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03-03-2009, 05:22 AM
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#3
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Restorations done right
Commercial Member
1962 26' Overlander
1961 26' Overlander
Vintage Kin Owner
Currently Looking...
Baltimore
, Maryland
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 5,545
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they are a tool that is hard to live without. I use them as another set of hands. I buy them from Airparts inc. The copper colored ones are 1/8" and the black ones are 5/32". I am always nervous, so I drill and cleco the copper ones first then once it all looks proper, I drill the holes larger and install the black ones. Then it is just a matter of removing them one by one and filling it with a solid rivet. I have a hundred of each, but often they are all in use. Airparts inc sells them for $.49 each and the tool to remove and install them. other vendors sell them too, but I like the excellent service Airparts offers.
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03-03-2009, 06:32 AM
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#4
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Rivet Master
1973 27' Overlander
Loganville
, Georgia
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,741
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I bought my clecos off of e-bay. I have seen them on aircraft tool websites.
Lothlorian
__________________
Brian & Adrienne
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03-03-2009, 06:40 AM
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#5
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More than one rivet loose
Currently Looking...
Los Alamos
, New Mexico
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,756
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Nuke
Howdy Folks,
Can anyone out there enlighten me about clecos? As I learn about the restoration of these trailers I run accross their mention ocasionally and there's an article on a '56 Flying cloud restoration at www.vintageairstream.com where they are used extensively. I gather that they originate from the aircraft industy and are used to help align the sheet metal panels prior to riveting. A google search took me to an aircraft repair parts website that offered dozens of diferent types and sizes. Do you really need them? If so, what sizes/types and how many would you recommend? Why can't you just use rivets (un-pulled) to align the pieces?
I'm just about done with the rip-out phase (a term from my shipyard days) and I'm trying to be prepared without breaking the bank.
Thanks for any info you can provide.
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They are a must for aluminum sheet metal work.
Aircraft tool supply will have all you need.
You cannot just use rivets because they can rack over or fall out. Yes you could tape them but clecos and the and cleco plyers are a must.
the size the cleco must match the size of the river you use.
Michelle (Airframe and Powerplant)
__________________
Michelle TAC MT-0
Sarah, Snowball
Looking for a 1962 Flying Cloud
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03-03-2009, 06:43 AM
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#6
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Rivet Master
1959 26' Overlander
Putnam
, Connecticut
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 3,064
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Nuke
Howdy Folks,
Can anyone out there enlighten me about clecos? As I learn about the restoration of these trailers I run accross their mention ocasionally and there's an article on a '56 Flying cloud restoration at www.vintageairstream.com where they are used extensively. I gather that they originate from the aircraft industy and are used to help align the sheet metal panels prior to riveting. A google search took me to an aircraft repair parts website that offered dozens of diferent types and sizes. Do you really need them? If so, what sizes/types and how many would you recommend? Why can't you just use rivets (un-pulled) to align the pieces?
I'm just about done with the rip-out phase (a term from my shipyard days) and I'm trying to be prepared without breaking the bank.
Thanks for any info you can provide.
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Yes.... pulls panels together
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03-03-2009, 07:05 AM
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#7
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Rivet Master
1971 25' Tradewind
1993 34' Excella
Currently Looking...
Estancia
, New Mexico
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 7,742
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The come in handy for putting in windows, and are just plain fun, best toy since legos.
__________________
Sail on silver girl. Sail on by. Your time has come to shine.
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03-03-2009, 08:18 AM
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#8
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Rivet Master
1956 22' Safari
2015 27' Flying Cloud
Vintage Kin Owner
Conifer/Evergreen
, Colorado
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 12,702
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Anybody who has done any panel work will agree, they are indespencible. We found the copper ones for $.38 each. 100 cost $38.00, best 38-bucks we ever spent at twice the price! Not a place to scrimp, you will regret it.
Shari
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03-03-2009, 10:04 AM
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#9
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Tom O
1966 17' Caravel
Altadena
, California
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 172
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Brown Tools
At work our mechanics got their Cleco's and other sheet metal tools from Brown Aviation Tools ( Home). They can be found cheaper, but if you need specific sizes they have everything. Another interesting tool they have is a spring loaded hole finder. Sounds strange, but if you are replacing a panel they make a very quick and easy job of locating existing rivet holes and drilling matching holes on a new panel.
__________________
"Badges? We ain't got no badges. We don't need no badges. I don't have to show you any stinking badges!"
CA-7
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03-03-2009, 12:50 PM
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#10
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Rivet Master
1991 34' Excella
Princeton
, New Jersey
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 7,070
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toldfield
Another interesting tool they have is a spring loaded hole finder.
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Do you have a picture of the tool? I can't quite get an image of how it works.
__________________
WBCCI 12156 AIR 3144 WACHUNG TAC NJ6
2004 Excursion 4x4
1991 34 ft. Excella +220,000 miles, new laminated flooring, new upholstery, new 3200 lbs axles
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03-03-2009, 01:09 PM
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#11
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Rivet Master
1956 22' Safari
2015 27' Flying Cloud
Vintage Kin Owner
Conifer/Evergreen
, Colorado
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 12,702
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We have a hole finder - don't know if it's the same one he's talking about, but ours is very simple. It's basically a pair of tongs or tweezers with a nub that fits in the back (hidden) hole and a corresponding hole in the front. You put the aluminum between the two and when the nub slips into the concealed hole, you drill through the hole on the front and they line up.
Here's one like ours... Hole Duplicator
Shari
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03-03-2009, 02:46 PM
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#12
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Rivet Master
1984 31' Excella
Broken Arrow
, Oklahoma
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 673
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Clecos
Try ebay, they have a large selection and are a lot more reasonable than the suppliers mentioned here.
Beginner
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03-03-2009, 07:34 PM
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#13
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Rivet Master
1973 27' Overlander
Currently Looking...
Jupiter
, Florida
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,060
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I got a huge variety of used clecos and tools for cheap from... Welcome To The Yard
and was impressed by rapid shipping, almost as fast as vintage trailer supplies
__________________
The days are short and the night is long and the stars go tumbling by.. . ~Airstream~
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03-03-2009, 09:53 PM
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#14
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4 Rivet Member
Commercial Member
1954 22' Flying Cloud
2017 30' Classic
Currently Looking...
Ojai
, California
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 254
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Clecos are my husband's best friend....especially when his "Bucker" (me) is not around to assist. Do not proceed without them!
__________________
Lynda
AIR 24539 WBCCI 261
Founding Member, Greater Los Angeles Airstream Club
Accredited Appraisal Firm www.PolkAssociates-llc.com
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03-04-2009, 11:24 AM
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#15
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1 Rivet Member
1957 22' Flying Cloud
Odessa
, Washington
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 11
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Thanks, everybody for all your help. I think I found a pretty good deal on eBay for starters.
__________________
John Whyte
Odessa, WA
(the geographic center of nowhere)
New to this forum, RV'ing & Airstreams
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03-04-2009, 04:11 PM
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#16
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Rivet Master
1971 21' Globetrotter
Currently Looking...
Currently Looking...
Currently Looking...
Arvada
, Colorado
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 3,527
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If you have 100 each you will need 125 of each size, if you have 125 each you will need 150
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03-04-2009, 05:10 PM
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#17
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Rivet Master
1959 26' Overlander
Putnam
, Connecticut
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 3,064
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You will also want the right sized drill bits. I'm sure others can provide the numbers...
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03-06-2009, 11:15 AM
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#18
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3 Rivet Member
1959 22' Flying Cloud
Currently Looking...
Seattle
, Washington
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 172
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They are really necessary, as are the pliers to apply and remove them. I found the best price / shipping ratio from Aircraft Spruce. However, I ended up buying mine from Spencer Aircraft in Puyallup, WA. It hurts to pay a bit more, but I got a 30 min. lecture on how to use them and how to buck rivets properly by one of their aircraft mechanics. Totally worth the $20 extra I paid to shop locally and I told them that. I'm sure you could find something similar in Spokane if you need a refresher lesson.
I would recommend at least 50 of the black colored clecos (5/32") minimum for exterior panel and belly skin work. And at least 20 of the copper colored ones (1/8") for interior panel work. And don't forget the pliers!
If you're shopping for drill bits too, look for the short aircraft style ones. They're about 1 1/2" long and don't break as easily as the long ones you get from the box stores (sharper too).
Ryan.
__________________
Ryan and Katie Weber
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03-06-2009, 02:13 PM
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#19
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Rivet Master
1956 22' Safari
2015 27' Flying Cloud
Vintage Kin Owner
Conifer/Evergreen
, Colorado
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 12,702
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Quote:
Originally Posted by r&kweber
I would recommend at least 50 of the black colored clecos (5/32") minimum for exterior panel and belly skin work. And at least 20 of the copper colored ones (1/8") for interior panel work. And don't forget the pliers!
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Guess it depends on the size of your project...we needed about 150 copper and 100 black while working on replacing the side panel on our Safari - and we didn't even put them in every hole!
Shari
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03-06-2009, 02:15 PM
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#20
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Rivet Master
1999 23' Safari
Perrysburg
, Ann Arbor
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 916
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"If you're shopping for drill bits too, look for the short aircraft style ones. They're about 1 1/2" long and don't break as easily as the long ones you get from the box stores (sharper too)."
And if you use 'em in an air drill, they are very fast and tend to cut nearly burr free. I think they are specially ground for aluminum.
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