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Old 05-11-2015, 12:07 PM   #43
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Seem to be a lot of pro-opinions on hacking your way out. That is, frankly totally impractical. If you have to hack your way out, you will be found deceased, trying to hack your way out. Fire grows much to rapidly (assuming there is enough fire for you to need to hack away). You need early detection (smoke detector) and quick exit.

Also, fire extinguishers have very limited application. The reason there is an extinguisher in your trailer is so you can extinguish a small kitchen stove top fire. That is about the only reason. Maybe a small electrical fire that you witnessed. But the majority of fires beyond that are going to be unwitnessed. At that point exit is the only safe option. And the idea that with extra extinguishers you will fight your way out, is also not very realistic at all.
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Old 05-11-2015, 01:38 PM   #44
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AS should move or add another fire extinguisher in the back and if you are on the road for a long time put one in your car, if there is a fire while driving you will not be able to get the one out of the trailer.
When I was still working for a living, every Government vehicle was required to have a fire extinguisher on-board. Problem is, said extinguisher could be anywhere in the vehicle. Which is why we had a Government-owned SUV go up in flames a few years ago. The occupants were performing a levee inspection shortly after the grass on the levee was mowed. The cut grass accumulated on the vehicle's catalytic converter and caught fire. Everyone got out of the vehicle safely, but the fire extinguisher in back was inaccessible because the fire spread so quickly. The only extinguisher available was one from another vehicle, and by the time that one was brought to bear, it wasn't enough to put out the fire.

In a tow vehicle, any extinguisher should be within easy reach of the driver, because the driver may be the only person in the vehicle and the idea is to grab the extinguisher on the way out the door. Having to open another door to grab the extinguisher, or worse, reach into a fire to do grab the extinguisher, is not the best idea in the world.

The stock location for an extinguisher in an Airstream is right beside the main exit, which is exactly where it should be. Again, the idea is to grab the extinguisher on the way out. Always plan on fighting a fire from the outside in, never from the inside out.

If you want to add another extinguisher to your Airstream, the same principle applies— mount the second extinguisher where you can grab it on the way out through an emergency exit, or someone reaching in the exit from outside can grab it without having to step inside.
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Old 05-14-2015, 02:15 PM   #45
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In all of our client/pax-briefings, the use of the hand-held extinguisher is described as a tool "to clear a pathway for escape".... not as a fire-fighting tool...or "extinguisher". (Mis-named?)
I believe that might be a good description of any "extinguisher" inside the AS or nearby the bed, as it might provide addt'l time for the escape.

When a vehicle of ANY sort is on "Fire"... it is best to remember that ..NOW,... it belongs to the insurance company. Get out...and let them have it.
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Old 05-14-2015, 03:20 PM   #46
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In all of our client/pax-briefings, the use of the hand-held extinguisher is described as a tool "to clear a pathway for escape".... not as a fire-fighting tool...or "extinguisher". (Mis-named?)
I beg to differ. My Airstream Interstate has four exits— two front doors, one side door, and the rear doors. If I can't get to ANY of them without using an extinguisher to clear a pathway, that means I'm already toast! Or already toasted— and my life insurance policy will be paying off along with my RV insurance. At least they'll save the cost of a cremation…

Why would anyone try to clear a path with an extinguisher unless they're completely surrounded by fire and have no other way out? That's why Airstreams— and homes and offices— have emergency exits, so if one exit is blocked hopefully another isn't. And why they have smoke detectors with very loud alarms, so you can wake up and get out before you're completely surrounded by fire.

In my Airstream, the fire extinguisher is for fighting fires small enough to be put out with it, after I have escaped and called 911— assuming I'm in a location that has cell phone coverage. And if the fire is too big to be put out with my extinguisher, at least I've already summoned assistance and used my extinguisher— which I have been trained to use— to slow the spread of the fire as much as I could until help arrives.

If my insurance company WANTS me to let the fire burn and pay off for a total loss, that's up to them; they don't even show up until long after the fire is over anyway. But I personally want to save as much as I can during a fire, as long as I can do so safely.

On Edit— I guess you're referring to aircraft since you said "clients/pax" but to me the same reasoning applies— there are so many emergency exits on a commercial aircraft that if you need an extinguisher to clear a pathway to one, you're completely surrounded by fire and it's already too late.
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Old 05-14-2015, 03:33 PM   #47
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Apologies in advance if this has been addressed...is the AS bike rack on the rear a problem for rear hatch evacuation?...especially if bikes are on it?
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Old 05-15-2015, 08:24 AM   #48
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Apologies in advance if this has been addressed...is the AS bike rack on the rear a problem for rear hatch evacuation?...especially if bikes are on it?
See post #26.
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Old 05-15-2015, 08:49 AM   #49
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Thanks, glad it was mentioned earlier...
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Old 05-15-2015, 10:02 AM   #50
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^^ yes thanks for mentioning the problem of bikes on the rack, this had not occurred to me and is a factor with my Holliwood rack also.

I have climbed in thru a side window to retrieve keys. This would be possible but not easy to get out of.
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Old 05-15-2015, 12:27 PM   #51
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Protagonist... in my line of work people are more important than things.
And if you want to have a partially burned, smoke/water damaged vehicle,.... then go ahead and concern yourself with what the insurance corporation would prefer you to do. (IF you actually consulted with them, I'd be willing to bet dollars-to-donuts they'd agree with me... Get away from it. Let the professional fire fighters deal with it.)

YMMV..but I hope it's clear I'm talking about a raging structural fire of a vehicle/RV which has fuel and propane tanks etc....not a simple stove-top flareup. If it requires you to EXIT... then stay out of it. (Airstreams are not much different than airplane fuselages, or perhaps that was forgotten.)
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Old 05-15-2015, 05:00 PM   #52
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YMMV..but I hope it's clear I'm talking about a raging structural fire of a vehicle/RV which has fuel and propane tanks etc....not a simple stove-top flareup.
I understand. And I don't think we disagree in any particulars except by accident.

The common-sense thing is, as soon as ANY alarm goes off— whether it's the CO detector, the LPG detector, or the smoke detector, GET OUT. Then worry about the fire. That's why I keep saying that the extinguishers belong at the exits, so you can grab one on the way out, and after you're out and you've called 911, decide whether to work your way back in to fight the fire from the outside or wait for the professionals. Anyone who lets himself/herself get trapped by a fire in their Airstream to the point that an extinguisher is required as the only means of getting to an exit ("to clear a pathway for escape" as you said) is ignoring their alarms.

The LPG detector will go off before the concentration of propane in the air reaches the lower explosive limit. The CO detector will go off before the concentration of carbon monoxide gas interferes with your breathing. The smoke detector will go off while the fire is still small enough that flames won't block every possible exit path before you can get out.
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Old 05-15-2015, 09:32 PM   #53
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Those cheap, chineese made detectors cannot be counted on to provide sufficient alarm to guarantee an escape path.
No one will "let" themselves be trapped.
The little extinguishers in TT's are too small capacity to fight a serious fire. They should be viewed as a helpful escape tool. IMO.

I think it's easy to imagine heroic salvage of a valuable asset such as a TT, but I don't think anyone can guarantee the scenario you imagine will be the fact. If you can tell me the size and/or circumstances of the fire you will have....then I can predict the outcome of your efforts with those little extinguishers and cheap detectors. If you cannot tell me those things... then I believe it's prudent to consider it an escape-problem-certainty.... and THEN a fire-fighting effort possibility.
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Old 05-15-2015, 09:56 PM   #54
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Those cheap, chineese made detectors cannot be counted on to provide sufficient alarm to guarantee an escape path.
No one will "let" themselves be trapped.
The little extinguishers in TT's are too small capacity to fight a serious fire. They should be viewed as a helpful escape tool. IMO.

I think it's easy to imagine heroic salvage of a valuable asset such as a TT, but I don't think anyone can guarantee the scenario you imagine will be the fact. If you can tell me the size and/or circumstances of the fire you will have....then I can predict the outcome of your efforts with those little extinguishers and cheap detectors. If you cannot tell me those things... then I believe it's prudent to consider it an escape-problem-certainty.... and THEN a fire-fighting effort possibility.
I'll never agree with you on this, because I'm not going to count on all of my detectors to fail exactly when I need them most and then count on my extinguisher to save me. But I'm not going to argue with you anymore. I've said all I can say to support my case, and repetition will not help, because I'm also sure you'll never come around to my point of view either.
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Old 05-15-2015, 10:39 PM   #55
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I'm sorry you do not wish to consider alternatives. But I respect your choice.

As a professional simulator instructor , Fire-escape/Evacuation is one of the subjects I recurrently train and teach.

Emergency Procedures Simulators - Aircare FACTS® Training - AirCare
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Old 05-15-2015, 11:08 PM   #56
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As an individual that has had Navy firefighting training and was involved in a REAL fire in a commercial building, getting people OUT is the first priority.

Then, and only then do you consider trying to fight the fire with the resources and trained folk you may have on hand. We got a small electrical fire out after the building was evacuated only because we had trained responders, all ex-military, a lot of big dry chemical fire extinguishers, and a lot of luck.

The fire department went to the wrong street, and finally arrived as we were starting mop-up.

I can tell you that dry chemical extinguisher powder tastes terrible, and makes you spit up foul-tasting yellow crap for days. But it can put out one hellova fire used correctly!

Without many extinguishers, we would have watched the building burn from outside.

First and foremost, you need to detect fire, evacuate, then fight from outside. If you only have the little AS installed fire extinguisher, it ain't even capable of making a dent in a big fire. A flaming fry pan on the stove, maybe. I can put that out with a lid and speedy response

Bottom line, unless you are trained, very well equipped, and more than a little lucky, get out and let the professionals handle a fire when they get there. It's only stuff, and your life and the lives of others are worth more than stuff. AS or whatever, it's not worth killing someone or getting killed saving stuff...

I have a much bigger extinguisher in my AS, but it's there to grab on the way out, and I will NOT attempt to go back in unless someone alive is still in the trailer in need of rescue. Failing that, if it can't be put out from outside, it's gonna be totaled...but we will still be alive.


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