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Old 03-05-2018, 12:44 PM   #1
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1977 31' Sovereign
Colorado Springs , Colorado
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 342
'77 Sovereign 31' Restoration

Hey folks using FB to host a page for the restoration.

The page is here:

https://www.facebook.com/AIRSTREAMRENO/
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Old 03-05-2018, 02:06 PM   #2
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1977 31' Sovereign
Vintage Kin Owner
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Personally I wish you’d do it here as I’m not on the Facebook. Also, this site is a fantastic storehouse of information that could benefit from your thread. Surely you’ve used this forum for inspiration and troubleshooting or will soon, perhaps think about returning the favor...

My .02¢ for what it is worth... which by my calculation is approximately 0.02¢

Ian
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Old 03-05-2018, 10:04 PM   #3
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1977 31' Sovereign
Colorado Springs , Colorado
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19 Feb 2018

This weekend we started the removal of all of the interior. This process is hard to manage - we need some things for templates (the exterior walls are not square), some things we are keeping (less than 20%) and other things are garbage. So keeping track is very important and storing the removed equipment and carpentry is also very important. It is all going into our basement which is a 20 min drive and at least one staircase away from the trailer. It was a great first start and got us into it in a big way. Here's to you kid . . .

PS: Did I mention there is no power at the site? We are managing this on a good DC Marine battery, a 400W inverter (for lights) and a 2000W Honda Gen for heat plus a 35W panel to recharge the battery during the week.
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Old 03-05-2018, 10:09 PM   #4
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1977 31' Sovereign
Colorado Springs , Colorado
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24 Feb 2018

Today was a great day at Lucy.

I really admire the way the dining area and the entertainment and socialization area of this Airstream was designed. The key to this is the wonderful table that has several different lengths and also folds into the wall. So today I took it off the wall and carefully put it away. The focus here is that I want to use the hardware to recreate the table - using real wood. This trailer was built in the height of the 70's "covering all wood with something else" phase of the century. So the table - as well as it is designed - is made of fake wood - plywood covered in a vinyl wood fake covering! Sad but with the right tools and some patience I should be able to create a new version that in my mind is the centerpiece of this area - because it allows you to do so much. We also have come to loath trailers with the dinettes as they are hard to get in and out of and leave very little room to move around. This setup involves free standing 70's comfy chairs - which with some new fabric and springs add a touch of ease and grace of living to the idea of eating breakfast, lunch and dinner.

We also started to take down the kitchen area. We really like the layout - in the new design it will essentially stay the same - but the cabinetry is vinyl covered wood and plastic - as well the counter tops and under cabinetry is old, peeling vinyl covered wood and must go. That said we need to get everything down and apart without destroying the major pieces - again we need accurate templates for the rebuild. It was interesting how everything was secured onto the Aluminum sheets which are the walls. The inside of the trailer is thinner aluminum sheets (covered in vinyl of course) which makes a fairly easy substance to screw into and hold things off the floor. The technique was to pop rivet brass strips into the aluminum in the shape of the trailer and then secure various thicknesses of plywood or wood board into the brass strips using screws mostly, sometimes rivets and other sometimes screws. It seems like the end of every rivet line ended up in a screw - probably to fasten the strip at each end tightly while leaving it movable during construction to allow for some measure of error.

The sink is something from a modern kitchen - filtered water and a single handle style water control and is a non ceramic lined steel sink which is extremely light. We like the sink and may refurbish it and keep it. The counter tops will be wood - I love finished hardwood counters as I think a real counter top is also a bread board and a meat/vegetable cutting area. If you look at the design of the cabinets and the stove with the furnace and the water pump on a shelf - my impression was so positive I intend to keep the design as it is. The exceptions are that I have found a perfect apartment sized stainless steel gas stove and oven that will fit perfectly into this space - solving many problems all in one install. Also the forced air furnace will go as we are not using forced air to heat the new trailer - it will be a hot water system that combines hot water heating with heating the trailer. So the space the furnace is in now will become new storage. (and will be 0.5 amp/hr versus 7 amp/hr).

It was a cold day, we ran the generator dry at least once and had to charge the battery later in the day to keep the lights on. Our Pickup truck died yesterday and is on the shop so we are leaving much more material at the trailer than we normally would. Hopefully Max will return this week and bring it all home.

We do not expect to get back to Lucy for more work in the next few weeks. Until then, semper fi.

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Old 03-05-2018, 10:14 PM   #5
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1977 31' Sovereign
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05 Mar 2018

Well today was another great day at Lucy.

The weather made the real difference today. It was at least 8 cel and rising when we left with the sun shining through the windows - meaning we did not need to use the heater. Later in the day we also had enough light to turn off the artificial fluorescence.

Last week we did a lot of work but had to leave the stuff we dismantled at the site. This meant that before we started today we had to load the pickup with the previous weekend's junk. Once we had completed that we divvy'd up the chores for today: finishing the main kitchen dismantle and removing the standing cabinet in the main area.

Today was an eye opener for me as I found that AS had built in a "wet wall" between the stove and bathroom. There is the sewage vent as well as the main drainage to the grey water tank. Under the kitchen is the fresh water tank and after we removed the counters and stove etc, you can easily see the entry points to the tank. There is copper fresh water lines everywhere and I am thinking this must have added weight like crazy to the trailer. One piece of really salient advice I have had so far on AS forums was to weigh everything you take off as the replacements need to be equal to or less than. In the case of the cabinetry I may have difficulty "staying inbounds" as the originals had a lot of plastic involved. That said the main structures of the cabinets are made from finished brass - something pine may be able to compete with. We are storing almost all of the stuff we remove in our basement at home so we can use a scale and ensure the differences are recorded. I ordered 3800 pound axles vice the 3200 pound axles Lucy had new. This will give me 1200 pounds of leeway and some extra storage I hope. The issue there will be tongue weight and balance - something my revised design has been taking into consideration. Solar and extra batteries will take up some of that room as well.

We also discovered proof of the efforts so far - a weeping floor under the old forced air furnace. I literally could put my finger straight through the floor. This made me feel better as we are planning a full restoration including frame strengthening - something many that have gone before us have not done - and suffered accordingly.

Now that we are in the routine of the back and forth we have discovered that the biggest effort is at the end of the day - having to put a full pickup of junk away in the basement. We are really, really missing the garage in our old house. Also hauling tools back and forth is a pain in the ass so we have created a little pack up kit with essentials. Finally the battery system and small solar panel are not managing very well with a weekly recharge, mostly because I left the inverter on all week. I disconnected today and am going to look at at least a 100W panel to replace the 35W which is struggling. Thank the universe for the Honda Generator which is doing Yeoman's service. This will all come to a head however when I try and weld this summer. More to follow on that one.

We have two more weekends before our HUGE camping trip down the west coast to San Diego. That will be 4 weekends off from Lucy but the weather should be great mid April and we may be able to get more time in her. Looking towards the next couple visits we are hoping to get the fridge out and the bathroom dismantled.

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Old 03-06-2018, 04:06 AM   #6
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We used basswood for hidden wood structure in our redo, and red alder for the finished cabinet fronts, etc. (looks like cherry but doesn't darken). Both are lighter than other conventional woods. Birch is another light weight wood that's often used. Looks like you are taking lots of pictures - I'd advise continuing to do that as you finish gutting, and when you are rebuilding. It's amazing how often you'll refer to those pictures! Our trailer was dark wood look formica cabinetry. Very dark inside. Now it's light and airy with light wood.
Good luck!

Kay
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Old 03-06-2018, 06:53 AM   #7
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Great documentation and descriptions of what you’re doing, thank you.
I’m curious about your new heating system, could you elaborate on that?
Also, not sure what welding set up you have but this Miller runs fine on my pair of Honda 2000s... I think you said you have a 3000?

Ian
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Old 03-06-2018, 06:54 AM   #8
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Oops.... link to the welding rig:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B013H...17AM4G55&psc=1
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Old 03-06-2018, 08:56 AM   #9
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It is an ALDE system. Made in Sweden. Does the hot water as well. ALDE 3010 system.
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Old 03-06-2018, 08:58 AM   #10
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I have a MIG welder - The issue will the amp draw on the generator or the battery. I have another trailer with a 1500W inverter and two good batteries on it. I may have to bring it along just for that.
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Old 03-07-2018, 09:54 AM   #11
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We threw most of the stuff away when we gutted our caravaner and the disposal place charges by the pound, it was 600+ lbs of junk. Like you mentioned we kept one of the bulk heads to use as a template and also kept all the channel fastening aluminum and fixtures but that was about it. The majority of the stuff isn't reusable and/or you wouldn't want to reuse it.
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Old 03-07-2018, 04:10 PM   #12
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What is Junk?

The question I have is that there are many pieces that are unique like the control panel face and switches and gauges plus other things which may retain value to other folks.
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Old 03-07-2018, 04:50 PM   #13
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We got takers for some of our stuff we didn't want to reuse, like shower door, shelves from frig, etc by advertising it for free on the classifieds here. People were willing to pay for shipping, all we did was take it to a place to be packed and shipped. Didn't cost us any money, and we made a lot of people happy!
We literally only used channel fasteners for wall panels, a few electric switch covers, and the kitchen sink. Everything else went somewhere else (mostly to recycling or trash).

Kay
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Old 03-07-2018, 08:23 PM   #14
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I'm glad you decided to use Air Forums for your project thread. I'm not good at faceboo at all.

I looked at a 79 Ambassador some time ago. I really liked the street side couch, under the front window folding table and the curbside recliner in this trailer. It was a twin bed, rear bath model.

But I was shocked and disappointed at the amount of plastic delamination I found in the trailer. The delamination was on the bulkhead walls. The overhead cabinets were warped and falling apart. And it had rear end separation bad. So I passed on it.

I now have a 75 Overlander. I've been impressed with how this trailer is made. There is much less plastic wood grain laminated pieces. It does have one of those wood grain formica covered folding tables. Most of the paneling is real veneer plywood and in pretty good shape. The cabinetry framing is aluminum extrusions like the newer Airstreams. Light and strong.

So I'd like to follow along with your 77 Sovereign project. I think you are on at least a two year, 1500 hour project. By the way, I met a fellow Airstreamer here in Colorado with a Caravanner 25'. He is an expert cabinet maker. The inside of his trailer is very, very nice. Like your plan, he made real wood cabinets. Minno did the same thing with their Minnesota Sovereign. His Caravanner is the nicest one I've seen.

David
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Old 03-11-2018, 08:33 PM   #15
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1977 31' Sovereign
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11 and 12 March 2018 Update

Wow are we ever beat up . . .

Wonderful weather so we decided to push two days in this weekend. I will not say it was a mistake but it was very tiring. We really hurt Sunday Morning and I went back for more punishment today while Max went for a Kayak paddle with a friend.

The removal of the Fridge was the highlight of the work we did. Max started on the bathroom dismantle which is a tightly congested work area and she being the 5 ft 3 person, she got that job. We bought another generator on sale at Canadian Tire for $379 to run the welder. It produces 4000W and while the Honda is great, it will not handle the MIG Welder. We started her up first pull and charged the battery for awhile to break it in. The sun has been so bright these days that we did not really require much lighting in the trailer so the battery has been doing well especially with the solar on it all week. Back to the fridge.

It is heavy. Really heavy. I was very surprised at that fact but slowly convinced myself that technology really has come pretty far since that fridge was manufactured. Also very surprised at the amount of free (not heated and cool) air was open to the outside behind the fridge and in the cabinet area. The door to the outside basically let cold air into the trailer because the cabinetry was not sealed at all and there are so many louvers in the door. Crazy! The roof vent was another big hole so heating or cooling that trailer was not very efficient. This surprised me because generally everything else is well thought out. I get the propane and the heat channel but the ones I have seen in other trailers are all sealed from the inside. Simple aluminum sheet without caulk does not prevent air from moving around and has little insulating factor.

The wardrobe I removed had a very complex lighting system inside that turned on when you opened the doors. I also found a sword minus a pommel at the bottom of the wardrobe. How odd you say? I agree! There was a wasp nest in the fridge air channel and there must have been a mouse of a bird family living at some time in the AC unit. Should have had a mask and some eye protection on when the AC inner panels came off.

I got the fridge into the pickup by myself (so proud . . .) using a come all and some plywood for sliding. Headed home today early to finish an oil change on the truck and do some house work. We have one more weekend before we leave for our big camping trip to San Diego for 3.5 weeks. Getting excited.
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Old 03-12-2018, 06:28 PM   #16
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Oh how they come apart so much easier than they go back together. I too removed my fridge by myself and attest to the fact they are rather heavy. The axles are even heavier! The rebuild time is a significant multiple of the disassembly time. Be ready.

The fridge in my trailer drew air from a big hole in the floor and out the plastic flue through the roof. Your louvered door is how all Airstreams are made now.
My Overlander had good seals on the walls of the fridge cabinet. So when you install a new fridge, be sure you seal the cabinet as instructed in the fridge install manual. The new axles are my most expensive purchase so far, the fridge will be the second most expensive purchase. This ain't a cheap hobby.

Most folks keep the stuff they take out of their vintage Airstreams for future reference or restorations. I've got quite a pile of it on my place.

Good job so far, keep it going.

David
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Old 03-12-2018, 10:08 PM   #17
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Hey David

My new Fridge:

ISOTHERM Cruise 195 Refrigerator Draw: 2.8A @ 12V (each compressor - 5A total) 6.9cu.ft. (4.6cu.ft. refrigerator; 2.3cu.ft. freezer) 93lbs $2200 USD

I agree! But the draft was unholy. Seriously.

You should see the pile in my basement. We moved last summer and my old house with it's 1500 sq ft 15 ft ceiling garage seems like paradise now. Every weekend after a day of work we have to move everything into my new workshop basement. Yes I need some cheese with that. Feeling Old.

Many things will change but I am learning on the way. Anyone know an easy way of getting the first pane out of the vista view windows?
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Old 03-13-2018, 11:41 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kristof View Post
My new Fridge:

ISOTHERM Cruise 195 Refrigerator Draw: 2.8A @ 12V (each compressor - 5A total) 6.9cu.ft. (4.6cu.ft. refrigerator; 2.3cu.ft. freezer) 93lbs $2200 USD

I agree! But the draft was unholy. Seriously.

You should see the pile in my basement. We moved last summer and my old house with it's 1500 sq ft 15 ft ceiling garage seems like paradise now. Every weekend after a day of work we have to move everything into my new workshop basement. Yes I need some cheese with that. Feeling Old.

Many things will change but I am learning on the way. Anyone know an easy way of getting the first pane out of the vista view windows?
Here is a link to the thread I used to fix the vista view windows:

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f454...ws-113847.html

I think most people remove the inner pane and then reseal the outer pane with new gaskets. (Airstream no longer does the double pane either.) The thread above shows you how to do that. There are two types of windows (I have a 1976 and I had both types!) one that is a single unit and the only way to remove the glass without removing the whole window assembly is to break the inner pane. The other has snap rings that you can remove and take the inner pane out, the inner pane being made of Plexiglas in this case.

For all the stuff you are removing, as I hinted at earlier, I'd just take most of it straight to the dump.

Good Luck!
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Old 03-13-2018, 05:53 PM   #19
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You have one of those fancy new refrigerators I've read about. I do think they are the wave of the future. You don't need holes in the walls or roof with that unit. You will need good batteries to keep it running I'd guess, but don't know.

David
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Old 03-15-2018, 10:03 PM   #20
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1977 31' Sovereign
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Toilets

So yes I have spent an inordinate amount of time reading about RV toilets today. We have camped a lot and all around the world and what we want is something that is not prone to issues (macerating toilets seem prone to issues) but something that is reliable and not as smelly as the cheaper ones. I can locate the tank right below the toilet so the straight down approach is the best best but you need something to hold the air in the tank (like a double valve).

Opinions?
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