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**Hans627** · 07-09-2016, 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteveSueMac

Personally, I wish the rhetoric would tone down here. Let's put things in perspective. If there were ever a case of first world problems, this is it.

First - Let me suggest that those of us - myself included - who are fortunate enough to be able to afford a RECREATIONAL vehicle ought to be grateful we're in that position to begin with. 90% of the population would love to have the chance to do what we get to do and experience the joy of camping. Do you whine when the campground fails to clear the environment of mosquitos for you too?

Second, human beings build and service these toys we have. Expecting perfection from humans - each of us included - is sheer stupidity. Failing to respect them is unkind at best.

Third, this constant moaning about quality problems in light of domestic and international matters of far more importance is about as tone deaf as it gets.

No whining on the yacht.

You got problems? Welcome to the real world. Now pick up a wrench or open your checkbook - treat people trying to help you out with respect and be grateful you can do that.

Your mileage may vary.

I like the "No whining on the yacht" comment.

Yes we have so very much to be thankful about. I think that often! But I also think we can expect an attitude of taking care of us, the customer!

Denis4x4 · 07-09-2016, 02:48 PM

SteveSueMac said, "No whining on the yacht!"

Fortunately, my Grand Banks Trawler QC was far superior to the Safari QC, so no whining necessary.

I wish the AS cheerleaders here would acknowledge that not every one owning an AS has the tools and knowledge to fix something that should have come out of the factory right in the first place. Too, a lot of people don't have the time and money to drop everything and go to Jackson Center, again, to address factory QC issues.

Yes, there are a lot more important things to consider.....

Air Apparent · 07-09-2016, 03:23 PM

It's not only Airstream that has quality control problems. It is the entire industry.

See the following links:

RV Death Spiral: Manufacturers in race to the bottom (an article in the RV Daily Report).

The Worst Part of the RV Lifestyle.

If you are going to buy an RV (any brand) you are going to deal with quality control problems.

lsbrodsky · 07-09-2016, 03:35 PM

That article lists Grand Design as an example of RV quality. I looked at their website and their stuff is less than half the price of an Airstream. I have trouble believing that anyone can build a quality RV for that price. I did not look for Grand Design forums to see how their owners feel although clearly they can get into an RV for far less money and feel good about that.
Larry

**Rocinante** · 07-09-2016, 03:57 PM

Well, I did check the Grand Design Owners' forum and almost immediately found something interesting. Guess they aren't perfect either, which is sad. I keep hoping to find excellence out there somewhere in RV-land.

http://www.granddesignowners.com/for...uality+control

Ah, here's a bad news / good news thread on warranty issues and service at GD. So, not perfect, but with the right artistic complaining skills, they got stuff resolved: http://www.granddesignowners.com/for...uality+control

Separately, it seems the "RV Death Spiral" guy is actually doing a series of opinion pieces on the subject: http://rvdailyreport.com/tag/rv-death-spiral/

FCStreamer · 07-09-2016, 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lsbrodsky

...I did not look for Grand Design forums to see how their owners feel although clearly they can get into an RV for far less money and feel good about that.
Larry

You should. You will find the same as with any other RV forum. A lot of complaints.

Forums attract people with issues looking for help. It's the nature of the Internet.

m.hony · 07-09-2016, 07:09 PM

Airforums was very useful in the beginning and may continue to be useful.
I do think it was tremendously valuable as a newbie to have this resource.
Everyone deals with challenges in their own way.
Some may be mechanically inclined and have the tools and time.
Some may have a reliable dealer or RV repair shop.
For some of us Jackson Center is the best solution.
I don't think of it as complaining so much as airing problems/challenges.
Honesty- calling a dose a spade- isn't necessarily complaining.
It is what it is.

Sent from my iPad using Airstream Forums

switz · 07-09-2016, 08:41 PM

The problems discussed usually have a few posts that can offer a work around or repair. That is why the annual $20 a good investment.

Sometimes, the information can be used to avoid a problem product in the first place.

**Rocinante** · 07-09-2016, 09:05 PM

Saw a very interesting analogy on one of the other RV forums where folks were discussing and bitterly condemning the lack of quality from nearly all manufacturers. They suggested it was like the American auto industry in the early 70's, just before Japan, Inc. ate their lunch with high quality inexpensive cars. American car makers didn't recover from their quality slump until it became a truly existential threat. One can only hope they figure it out in the RV industry before it happens to them as well. OTOH, I can't wait for a few companies to offer the "Toyota" of RVs and completely disrupt the market, displacing all the low-quality companies out there today. <sigh>

Air Apparent · 07-10-2016, 07:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rocinante

I can't wait for a few companies to offer the "Toyota" of RVs and completely disrupt the market, displacing all the low-quality companies out there today. <sigh>

This probably won't happen because RV manufacturers don't have the volume that the auto manufacturers have. Without the volume, the manufacturers can't justify buying robotic equipment. I don't ever see RV manufacturing quality coming close to automotive quality. However, it can be significantly improved from where it is today.

ROBERT CROSS · 07-11-2016, 04:20 AM

Could the problem be?.......

That new hires go right to the assembly line, instead of doing an apprentice stint with a veteran in the Service shop.

POI....we have gone thru service several times with very good results.

Bob

blkmagikca · 07-12-2016, 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ROBERT CROSS

Could the problem be?.......

That new hires go right to the assembly line, instead of doing an apprentice stint with a veteran in the Service shop.

POI....we have gone thru service several times with very good results.

Bob

Actually, the guys at JC's service first work on manufacturing or assembly.

Cowbell · 07-12-2016, 08:39 PM

This was posted on yesterday's Facebook post by Airstream:

Some things never change. Our attention to detail is one of them. We're making our 2017 products better than ever! Learn more here:

And I'm thinking...yeah...right :/
I felt like commenting but didn't want to be a Debbie Downer.

ROBERT CROSS · 07-13-2016, 05:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ROBERT CROSS

Could the problem be?.......

That new hires go right to the assembly line, instead of doing an apprentice stint with a veteran in the Service shop.

POI....we have gone thru service several times with very good results.

Bob

Quote:

Originally Posted by blkmagikca

Actually, the guys at JC's service first work on manufacturing or assembly.

????? Sorry

I thought that's what I said.

Bob

OSIN · 07-20-2017, 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by m.hony

I agree. They could also go to the Avalon/Lexus plant in Georgetown, KY.
I was appalled at all the junk, clutter, and lack of organization when I took a plant tour at Jackson Center last September.
I need to bring them boys to Mississippi to show 'em how to straighten/out/arrange a shop/warehouse/manufacturing facility.
There are too many people working on/in a trailer at any one time. They are all on top of one another- in one another's way. That environment is obviously not conducive to quality control.

yes, we were at JC, and there was Junk everywhere...also did factory tours at 5 Plants in Elkhart, some worse than AS, and others much better. Come to Fremont, CA, and see the Tesla plant if you want to see the best factory so far (that I know of)

AirstreamCSH · 07-20-2017, 05:00 PM

So who here is up for approaching Thor to see what they want for the company?

**Rocinante** · 07-20-2017, 05:56 PM

Approach them all you want. It's unlikely you'll get little more than a press release, but you never know.

Wingeezer · 07-20-2017, 07:18 PM

What gets me is how many responses seem to indicate that these problems and defects are normal and should be anticipated and will get fixed eventually if you continue to pursue it with AS and/or your dealer. And also comments that other RV's are all the same.

I don't feel this sort of thing should be considered as acceptable at all.

I well recall many many years ago my father buying his first Japanese built car.

He had always bought North American cars before, and considered it just normal to have a big list of issues to be fixed on every new car, and could not believe that there was not a thing wrong with his new Japanese car - no fixit list!

Certainly RV's are not Japanese cars but in my view that is the same level of quality to which we should aspire. Accepting sloppiness and making excuses just encourages more of the same ..... in any product.

After buying our first AS - three years old, I was thinking that after a few years, if it was as good as I hoped it would be, we might treat ourselves and trade on a brand new one.

Well, we have enjoyed our used AS now for eight years, and while financially it would be no problem at all for us to buy a new one, having read so many of these these stories I no longer have any desire to do so - I anticipate it would just upset me too much!

Five reasons for me ....

- on-going filiform issues on almost brand new trailers.

- inevitable water leaks in combination with rot-prone wooden floors

- a potential plethora of niggling and annoying quality issues that seem to be a likely issue with many new trailers from so many posts that I read.

- ever increasing incorporation of unnecessary electronic gizmos that can and will fail - I would much prefer "well-made and simple!"

and last but not least .....

-getting that first scratch or dent on a new trailer !! (I guess that applies to any new vehicle, quality or not!)

So at this stage, my best guess is that good sense will dictate that we'll be sticking with what we have as long as we are still RV'ing - or maybe buying another used one so that someone else deals with a lot of the teething troubles, and as well, we save a few $$.

Setting down these thoughts has helped to convince me that all things considered, I'm pretty happy with what we have - maybe it is a case of "Better the devil you know!"

So I expect we'll just keep our discretionary $$ invested and keep our fingers crossed markets goes the right way in the long run, and in the end our kids will be happy the old guy (me!) was such a miserly SOB!

Utah Man · 07-20-2017, 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wingeezer

So at this stage, my best guess is that good sense will dictate that we'll be sticking with what we have as long as we are still RV'ing - or maybe buying another used one so that someone else deals with a lot of the teething troubles, and as well, we save a few $$.

Setting down these thoughts has helped to convince me that all things considered, I'm pretty happy with what we have - maybe it is a case of "Better the devil you know!"

So I expect we'll just keep our discretionary $$ invested and keep our fingers crossed markets goes the right way in the long run, and in the end our kids will be happy the old guy (me!) was such a miserly SOB!

I like your thinking! ...said another miserly old guy with a 10+ year old AS, 15+ year old TV, and 15 year old passenger car.

Regards - Ron

rodsterinfl · 07-21-2017, 07:39 AM

You have good points.

One of the most hypocritical issues I have with Airstream primarily centers around the owners. Many times I have read how they last a long time, hold their value well, worth the extra cost for the durability, etc., you know the talk.

Well, why is it that so many buy one then trade it off a few years later for another of the same- barring any changes for need-sake, something that costs more because it last a long time then cycling through purchases every few years seems strange to me. My thought on buying something durable would be to plan to benefit from the cost of that durability by keeping it over the long term. We all know that the purchasing process itself is a loss so why pay extra for something you plan to keep only a few years anyway?

I know I am not in crazy mode. I remember Ralph Nader's logic on buying a Mercedes diesel car- same idea- built like a tank, economical to run with low service and fuel needs, costly to buy but saves the owner from the then average 4 year purchase cycle per se. Mercedes are no longer built like that but Airstream represents a product that supposedly is a remaining longevity champ.