2012 International Battery usage problem

[Kellerzal]

Hi there everyone! I am brand new to this forum and am looking for a direction to go in with my issue.

A couple of months ago, I took my Airstream up to Covington WA in hopes that they could figure out why my Airstream wouldn't run anything on the batteries when not on shore power.

They looked at it for a couple of days and concluded that the batteries took a full charge and the inverter tested out great.

Last weekend, I tried running on the batts at our property that doesn't have shore power. I didn't even have enough juice to lower the hitch. I had to connect it to my generator.

Tested the batteries with a separate batt charger and they say they are full.

Made sure my batt disconnect switch is not in the store postion. One weird anomaly here - when I connected to the Gen, I still couldn't raise or lower the hitch - UNTIL I went in and pressed the Batt disconnect switch. It seemed like the switch was already in the "use" position, but hitting this again allowed me to run the hitch lower on the gen.

Checked all breakers and fuses under the bed.

Could I have an issue with my batt disconnect switch? Any ideas? I really don't want to take this thing back up to Covington again - really don't trust those guys...Thanks for any ideas you can give!!!

[Bill M.]

Sounds to me like the switch is faulty. You can order one from outdoors mart.

[dkottum]

I believe the hitch jack is wired directly to the batteries with an inline fuse. If you fully charged them with a separate charger and they still cannot raise the hitch jack, they are probably shot. Which may be the fault of the single stage converter if it is left plugged into external power for long periods. Make sure the battery connections are not corroded and making poor contact though.

[Kellerzal]

Batt connections are still in really good shape - I did check that. Where is the single stage converter and is that something I can look into replacing myself? I am med/low as far as electrician skills

So far I might try:
1. Batt disconnect switch replacement
2. Battery replacement (I will get them out and charge them separately with a charger and then try to put a load on each one.)
3. Single stage converter replacement?

Thanks so much for the info guys!

[lsbrodsky]

Find your fuses and you found the converter. In my 25FB they are under the bed as you face it. I would assume that if you have the rear bedroom that stuff is still forward under something. If you buy a plug and play replacement even a caveman can do it.
Larry

[idroba]

As dkottum said, the jack is directly connected to the batteries, and has it's own fuse on these recent models. If the jack does not work, it sounds like the batteries are not capable of supplying power. With the generator on, and the switch in use position, the converter/charger is actually becoming the power supply to the jack.

Battery testing must be done under load. A battery can show fully charged by voltage measurement, but have virtually no capacity to do anything, that is the voltage drops to nothing under load. My guess is that is what has happened to your batteries.

Disconnect the trailer from 120 volts so there is no battery charge or conversion from 120 to 12 volts possible. Try to run the jack while measuring the battery voltage. If it drops to nothing under that load, your batteries are shot.

[Moflash]

Replace the batteries.

[Kellerzal]

Awesome - will do! Thanks again!


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[Kellerzal]

How would these two year old batts be shot already? Haven't been off shore power to use them that often.


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[jdalrymple]

The stock power converter is a crude battery charger.

Simply put, it supplies the same amount of power to the batteries without much regard to the condition of the battery charge.

When the batteries reach full charge, the converter will keep supplying power, which will finally boil the electrolyte dry. And, ruin the batteries in short order.


One can manage the charging rate manually, to some degree, by using the use/store switch to disconnect the batteries from the electrical system periodically when on shore power. The converter will supply power to the appliances without the batteries.


Others choose to upgrade to a more expensive converter that has a better charger built in. It monitors the charge condition, and limits the supplied power as the batteries reach full charge.


Regards,

JD

[Kellerzal]

Thanks again everyone - the load test showed exactly what you talked about - it barely lowered the hitch before dropping way off on the meter. Time to replace batts.

Best place to buy batts? Certain type better for this application?

Is there something diff I can do to make them last longer this time around? The AS stays on shore power most of the time at my house with 8-10 trips a year.

So glad I found this forum! Will be reading and contributing as much as I can!


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[Kellerzal]

Thx JD - you answered my question on how to maintain better. I really appreciate it!


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[jdalrymple]

I store my trailer at home on constant shore power.

Just remember to switch the use/store switch to store most of the time.

I move it to "use" a day about every month, if I am not traveling.

This keeps the batteries charged, without the overcharging issue.

By the way, the red LED on the use/store switch will remain lit in the "store" position if the trailer is connected to shore power.



Regards,

JD

[Endodoc]

That Airstream dealer sure did a great job missing a simple diagnosis!

[Kellerzal]

Yeah I've had lots of issues with the Covington store - actually drove 3 hours south to the Oregon store to buy my AS.

Thanks again JD!


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[dkottum]

If you leave the trailer plugged into shore power for more than a day, put the battery disconnect switch in "STORE" position. This will isolate the batteries from the converter/charger that probably ruined them.

[lewster]

Originally Posted by jdalrymple

I store my trailer at home on constant shore power.

Just remember to switch the use/store switch to store most of the time.

I move it to "use" a day about every month, if I am not traveling.

This keeps the batteries charged, without the overcharging issue.

By the way, the red LED on the use/store switch will remain lit in the "store" position if the trailer is connected to shore power.



Regards,

JD

Unfortunately, the stock, constant voltage Parallax converter will never adequately charge a battery....ANY battery using ANY on/off modulation or any other technique. This is why so many batteries fail at such a short use period.

Modern lead acid batteries require 3 charging stages to be fully charged and properly maintained.

• #1 The initial 'bulk' charging stage increases the charging voltage slowly from the initial battery voltage to either the set point of the converter or the pre-programmed voltage of a programmable inverter/charger. The amperage also increases during this initial stage to the maximum output of the device as required by the batteries. Batteries require a voltage here of between 14.2 VDC (AGM) to as high as 14.6 VDC (liquid lead acid).

• #2 The second charging stage, or 'absorption' stage (sometimes called the taper charge) maintains this voltage as the batteries fill, and as they fill, the amperage required to fill them becomes less, so the amperage begins to taper or drop. The closer to 100% the batteries become, the lower the amperage required.

• #3 The third charging phase is the 'float' stage. It is here that the voltage and amperage both are reduced to a level that will maintain the battery at or near 100% state of charge. These voltages are 13.2VDC (AGM) and 13.2-13.4VDC (liquid cells). A battery is generally considered fully charged when the resting voltage is between 12.8-13.2 VDC.

When the stock converter applies only a 13.6VDC output to the batteries, they never really get full, as the required 14.2-14.6 voltage level is never reached. This leaves the batteries in a perpetual state of diminished charge lower than 100%. Plus, if the batteries ever do approach full charge, they never attain a real 'float' voltage, as 13.6VDC is significantly higher than 13.2-13.4VDC.

0.2-0.4VDC might not seem like a lot, but in terms of battery state of charge, this can mean the difference between 100% capacity (12.8VDC) and 70% capacity (12.6VDC) of the batteries.

And all of this doesn't even begin to discuss the use of temperature compensation to adjust the charging voltages depending on the ambient temperatures of the batteries, which is extremely important as all of the above information is calculated at 25ºC, or 77ºF. That is another topic for another time.

[Rocinante]

This thread explains how I replaced our Parallax 7355 converter with a Progressive Dynamics 4655 after getting plenty of good advice and reading several other threads.

If you let Lewster take care of you, then you'll get a more comprehensive solution and he'll do all the work, but this should be a good temporizing measure.

http://www.airforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1465879

[Kellerzal]

Wow - thank you so much for the info guys! I appreciate the time you took out of your day to respond!


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[Moflash]

Call Randy at Best Converters get a new converter and Lifeline Batteries and you will be good to go.Big difference in you enjoyment when Airstreaming.


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