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Old 08-16-2011, 08:38 AM   #15
Halimer
 
2006 25' Classic
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Brake Hoses

Here are some photos of my brake hoses and fitttings:Click image for larger version

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Old 08-21-2011, 03:32 PM   #16
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My brake line repair.

I had brake hoses that I believe were too short also, evidenced by a hot brake one day and tell tale kink folds in the hose at the caliper fitting. I searched for off the shelf longer lines, found some, installed them could be end of story, wasn't. Due to a different circumstance, my axles got replaced, time to bleed again, didn't come out right --- trapped air inboard caliper. I decided to incorporate the option to bleed the inboard caliper seperate from the outboard caliper.

The picture is a bit awquard to look at, the wheel is not off and very difficult to find the right shot.

AS routed the hose in from behind the swingarm, route it forward and arc over then down into the caliper. I chose to come in from under, arc up and them back into the caliper. Short bill of material, hose, 3/16" brake line coupling, 3/16" - 3/8" inverted flare to M10 bubble steel line. Dexter uses an M10 bubble connection on the caliper and I wanted to go straight in so using an 8" adaptor line bent to shape with a brake line bending tool to 3/8" coupling to hose, I got what I was looking for. The line is also secured with a short fabricated bracket with a line clamp to the caliper. All brake line, hose and coupling were off the shelf auto parts store items.

The as issued plumbing required an almost total disassembly back to the steel supply line to do any servicing.

Benifits IMHO, kinking- gone, ability to crack the line on the inboard caliper to bleed inboard - available, line can be tightened into position w/o twisting the line, open line anywhere, yup.

This is my .02$, I did what I felt would meet my expectations, your decision is yours, these are brakes we're working on here.

If I were to start over, I'd look at completely re-routing the hose in from ahead of the swingarm, not from behind it.
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Old 08-21-2011, 05:39 PM   #17
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Wrong fluid?

If the wrong fluid is used it will expand causing the brake to drag on the rotor causing more pressure and heat until it all ruptures.
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Old 09-13-2011, 06:54 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hap3 View Post
AS has agreed to take look at the situation once I get into the dealer. But they can't schdule it in for 3 weeks.
Hap3,

Any update on the inspection or repair?

Gary
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Old 09-23-2011, 01:39 PM   #19
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After replacing the OEM "Actibrake" actuator, with a "Dexter" model-- I don't think the Acti' ever functioned properly. The Dex' seems to provide much more 'grab'.
Also, Dex' appears to be much more solid- having an all metal casing.
Another difference is the fluid reservoir. I could bleed all four calipers, before having to top-off the Acti'- whereas, Dex' needs toping off after one.
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Old 09-23-2011, 01:43 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by GCinSC2 View Post
I chose to come in from under, arc up and them back into the caliper. Short bill of material, hose, 3/16" brake line coupling, 3/16" - 3/8" inverted flare to M10 bubble steel line. Dexter uses an M10 bubble connection on the caliper and I wanted to go straight in so using an 8" adaptor line bent to shape with a brake line bending tool to 3/8" coupling to hose, I got what I was looking for. The line is also secured with a short fabricated bracket with a line clamp to the caliper. All brake line, hose and coupling were off the shelf auto parts store items.

The as issued plumbing required an almost total disassembly back to the steel supply line to do any servicing.

Benifits IMHO, kinking- gone, ability to crack the line on the inboard caliper to bleed inboard - available, line can be tightened into position w/o twisting the line, open line anywhere, yup.

This is my .02$, I did what I felt would meet my expectations, your decision is yours, these are brakes we're working on here.

If I were to start over, I'd look at completely re-routing the hose in from ahead of the swingarm, not from behind it.
That's interesting how they ran it 'under and over'. Our calipers are completely symmetrical. The brake line feed, in your pic, is interchangeable with the connecting line (metal tube connecting inner and outer caliper) shown at the bottom of the pic. That is, you could run the feed from the actuator into the bottom port, and flip the connector pipe to the top.
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Old 09-23-2011, 02:32 PM   #21
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Question Disc up-grade?

.....I was thinking of the disc brake up-grade.
When brake work was needed on our Classic and I resumed the research I noticed the new AS's don't have them. Does anyone know the reason?

Was looking for that bit of added piece-of-mind, never really had a problem with the drums, maybe just do the maintenance and leave well enough alone for now or.....
"if it ain't broke, fix it 'til it is"

Bob
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Old 09-25-2011, 01:21 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by finalcutjoe View Post
That's interesting how they ran it 'under and over'. Our calipers are completely symmetrical. The brake line feed, in your pic, is interchangeable with the connecting line (metal tube connecting inner and outer caliper) shown at the bottom of the pic. That is, you could run the feed from the actuator into the bottom port, and flip the connector pipe to the top.
Joe,

Just a clarification, caused I'm a bit confused. agreed, my calipers have M10 bubble flare at all connections, no L/R/Up/Down config.

My trailer was built with the hose coming off the frame, going forward and then first arcing up and then arcing down into the caliper, same as we have seen in many pictures. I chose to reconfig first with longer hoses and then still not satisfied I made the steel line extension loop as in the picture with the big gain of being able to bleed on the inboard caliper with the steel tube nut as the bleeder.

IMHO one of the major challanges to sucessfull quick acting hydraulic brakes is NO AIR in the system. Air gets compressed 1st then the brake fluid gets comprssed, loosing time and responsiveness. I think the routing that AS built does not offer the chance to bleed the inboard caliper, (YMMV) you are relying on the bubble being flushed down against its natural state of floating and seeking the high point.

You're suggestion might work.

If I was starting over, I'd give a serious look at routing the line like motorcycles do, along the swingarm with the line coming in from the front, not from behind as we have. I'd also research high performance 4 piston brake systems to learn from them.

I used all automotive brake components and no leaks. FWIW researching brake hose configurations is a challanging task, I even had a little bit of additional access, still not easy.

I'd also like to hear from the OP as to his progress and findings.

Gary
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Old 09-26-2011, 06:12 AM   #23
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"I made the steel line extension loop as in the picture with the big gain of being able to bleed on the inboard caliper with the steel tube nut as the bleeder."

Brakes should be bled thru the nipple on the caliper, the longest line first, working forward towards the master cylinder. A pressure or vacuum pump will make the job easier and safer. Brake fluid does have a working life and should be changed every two years. Moisture in the system is the most common cause of fluid degradation, moisture boils in the caliper or wheel cylinder under severe use causing a soft pedal.

Bob
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Old 09-26-2011, 06:29 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ROBERT CROSS View Post
.....I was thinking of the disc brake up-grade.
When brake work was needed on our Classic and I resumed the research I noticed the new AS's don't have them. Does anyone know the reason?

Was looking for that bit of added piece-of-mind, never really had a problem with the drums, maybe just do the maintenance and leave well enough alone for now or.....
"if it ain't broke, fix it 'til it is"

Bob
I think someone said that disc brakes have to be used regularly vs occasionally such as an AS. Sal.
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Old 09-26-2011, 07:00 AM   #25
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I think someone said that disc brakes have to be used regularly vs occasionally such as an AS. Sal.
Sal,
It is true that consistent use improves disc brake performance. Most noticeably involving noise and high pedal pressure, at the Chevy store we called it "lot rot". A surface rust condition on the rotors from sitting on the lot without being driven. All deliveries got a good road test before customer pick-up.

Our trailer's do sit on the "lot" quite a bit, so that condition would be something we should expect.

More importantly, is there a mechanical reason they have been discontinued?
I have surge discs on a boat trailer and have had no concerns, not practical on our 'Streams though.

Time to Google...

Sorry...my bad, plenty of info right here if I had done a search.

Bob
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Old 09-26-2011, 07:31 AM   #26
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surge brakes

Bob, I dont know about your area, but around here {brackish/salt water} I just see a lot of rusted brake lines on my sons boat trailers, basicly used twice a year. Sal.
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Old 09-26-2011, 08:09 AM   #27
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Bob, I dont know about your area, but around here {brackish/salt water} I just see a lot of rusted brake lines on my sons boat trailers, basicly used twice a year. Sal.
Sal,

Real lucky in that regard...when we're wet it's usually in L Erie or Niagara R.

Bob
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Old 10-05-2011, 04:06 PM   #28
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If something causes the brakes to lock up and stay that way for extended periods of time like going down a mountain the fluid will eventually reach its boiling point and you will have no brakes. If the fluid is hot enough it could come back out the reservior. Depending on what type of brake controller you have and how it is adjusted the trailer brakes could have overheated from over use. The most boil tolerant fluid is Silicone DOT5 but you have to purge all your old fluid out. The newer DOT4 fluids claim to have high boiling points but they absorb water in a short time and the boiling point goes down. Silicone won't absorb water. The military uses if for this reason. It also won't corrode metal parts. Where was the fluid coming from? It has been known that rubber hoses can collapse inside when they get old and let brake fluid in but not let it out which means the brakes can stay on. Also a caliper piston can stick and cause overheating.

My dirt bikes would loose the back brake because I would overheat them and boil the fluid. This is a side effect of using the back brake to steer. I would stop pour some water on the caliper and everything was good for a while after that. Also removing shims can contribute to overheating because the shim in some cases acts as an insulator.

Perry
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