Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 05-13-2005, 07:24 AM   #15
Well Preserved

 
1993 21' Sovereign
Colfax , North Carolina
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 20,192
Quote:
Originally Posted by pattersontoo
I was commenting on HOW the thread got started. Not WHY it is still going. Selective editing is awesome.
I did a little detective work, and from what I can tell, even though Andy's post is the starting thread, he did not start it.
So, logically, that means that someone (a moderator) moved his post from another thread, or that someone else started the thread, Andy replied to it, and then the initiationg post was deleted or removed.
__________________

__________________
Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy, and taste good with ketchup.
Terry
overlander63 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2005, 07:32 AM   #16
Site Team
 
, Minnesota
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 6,940
Images: 59
Ok, I see where the selective editing may have happened. That explains where the 'HOW it got started' comment came from.

You need to be pretty fast to keep up with all the edits, deletions, and other stuff going on.
__________________

__________________
markdoane is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2005, 07:50 AM   #17
4 Rivet Member
Commercial Member
 
Currently Looking...
Somewhere , Indiana
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 432
My two cents

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pschoerrn
Hello Pieman,

We overhere have only surgebrakes and electric brakes are unknown...

Bjoern
Bjoern,



I thought that I would add my two cents worth on this thread .



FYI:



In my prior life (before I was the AXLEMAN ) I worked in the Engineering Department at a company called Jayco, Inc. They manufacture RV’s in many verities. I was involved with truck campers, folding trailers (pop-ups), travel trailers, fifth wheels, van conversions and Class ‘A’ & ‘C’ motor homes. The Engineering Department at the time had about 60 employees.



We used surge braking systems extensively on the folding trailers or pop-ups as they are sometimes called. At one time the plants were actually producing 100 folding trailers a day (you do the math) – a lot of which had the surge brakes. Although these are not travel trailers of the Airstream variety I thought that it might be interesting to folks that surge brakes were actually installed by a fairly large (2nd largest privately owned) RV manufacturer right here in the USA.



Regards,

Henry



PS: Like Lou – I really enjoy your posts!
__________________
axleman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2005, 08:52 AM   #18
4 Rivet Member
 
Pschoerrn's Avatar

 
1971 29' Ambassador
Braunschweig , Germany
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 410
Images: 9
Andy

it is a very thrilling experience to drive on the 'wrong' side of the street, like in Great Britain and Ireland. I did that 6 months and could only pass trucks after my passenger had looked, as as normal driver with the leftsteering you couldn´t see anything. Had him several times on my knees, when it was too close.

Dan

electric brakes are not illegal all over Europe, Remco from this forum drives his trailer with the original setup in the netherlands and I heard of some french too. Even in Germany people dive with electric brakes on their Airstreamy, but only with 50's and 60's trailers.

We have to pass a technical inspection (only to companies do that TÜV or DEKRA) before we can apply for a registration and it is (at least in Germany) very hard to find an engeneer that is willing to do some research and give his/her ok... I hope I´ll find one, because I would prefer the US-Setup (less $$$ as it hasn´t to be changed), but I already collect informations on the Surge Brakes overhere.

If we change it would mean complete new axles, new brakes, new coupler, etc. losts of €€€ to be spend...

I like the Trailer in your Pic, we have one that looks just like yours. It sits on the Airfield where are gliderflying and is only 20 to 25 years old and is falling apart. It has softspot all over and the interior is in a bad bad shape, but it doesn´t leak and it is warm... Won´t tow ours a single inch!!

ALL

thanks for explaining the electric brake and giving a short look at the history of surge brakes in the US. Thats really interesting and I can´t see, why thing developed in such different directions. I mean you still use surge brakes on smaller trailers and we use them everywhere, but don´t know electric brakes on TT.

I found a note/directive from the TÜV, where they explain how electric brakes have to be installed in Germany (to Truck Trailer), but thats totally different to what you do in the US.

Keep posting!!


Thanks!!

BJoern
__________________
Björn H. Adam
Wolfenbuettel, Germany

AirstreamForumsMember No. AIR 5535

Proud Owner of a 1971 Ambassador 29' called "Dave"

-A stranger is a friend you just haven´t met before!-
unknown irish

davetheairstream
Pschoerrn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2005, 09:36 AM   #19
Rivet Master
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 2,183
Quote:
Originally Posted by argosy20
I did a little detective work, and from what I can tell, even though Andy's post is the starting thread, he did not start it.
So, logically, that means that someone (a moderator) moved his post from another thread, or that someone else started the thread, Andy replied to it, and then the initiationg post was deleted or removed.
It just seemed like somehting was missing. That's all I was getting at. It started out kind of disjointed. I know that when I looked to see if Andy started the thread he did not. That meant is was started somewhere else, some other way.
Just seemed a liitle weird.
__________________
Anon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2005, 10:08 AM   #20
4 Rivet Member
 
Pschoerrn's Avatar

 
1971 29' Ambassador
Braunschweig , Germany
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 410
Images: 9
Quote:
Originally Posted by pattersontoo
It just seemed like somehting was missing. That's all I was getting at. It started out kind of disjointed. I know that when I looked to see if Andy started the thread he did not. That meant is was started somewhere else, some other way.
Just seemed a liitle weird.
I am not shure, but I think it was part of the 'Minuet at the Axle Doc' or 'Disc Brake' threat or both... Anyway, the moderators have put together an interesting threat, at least it is for me.

bjoern

BTW our trailer didn´t arrive at the port today, but it will on Sunday.
__________________
Björn H. Adam
Wolfenbuettel, Germany

AirstreamForumsMember No. AIR 5535

Proud Owner of a 1971 Ambassador 29' called "Dave"

-A stranger is a friend you just haven´t met before!-
unknown irish

davetheairstream
Pschoerrn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2005, 10:28 AM   #21
Rivet Master
 
2003 25' Safari
Eden Prairie , Minnesota
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 765
Images: 3
BJoern,

Thanks for the explaination of the European requirements. I hope that you can find a way to keep the electric brakes on your Airstream.

As clarification, the trailer my earlier post is not mine. It belongs to the parents of my former exchange student. Her father had told me that they brought it on a trip through Poland and the rough roads shook it to pieces. He does not think it is repairable and will not tow it again.
__________________
Dan
dmac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2005, 12:40 PM   #22
Rivet Master
 
wheel interested's Avatar
 
2007 23' International CCD
Lapeer , Michigan
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,039
As long as I am here

We used to have a Jayco fold down with the surge brakes. I really like the electric brakes better but then the fold down was so light comparatively speaking. My question is why are electric brakes illegal in Europe? I am curious about that.
__________________
Caroljb



photography
wheel interested is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2005, 01:50 PM   #23
Site Team
 
, Minnesota
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 6,940
Images: 59
An intersting fact about surge brakes vs. electric brakes:

About 20% of boat trailers have electric brakes. This is because it is illegal to use surge brakes in Commercial Interstate commerce.

Boat trailer manufacturers make one trailer out of every five with electric brakes, they can use that trailer as the transport when they haul the other trailers from their shop to the retailer. The four trailers with surge brakes are stacked on top of the one with the electric brakes.

Makes sense to me.
__________________
markdoane is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2005, 04:20 PM   #24
4 Rivet Member
 
Pschoerrn's Avatar

 
1971 29' Ambassador
Braunschweig , Germany
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 410
Images: 9
Quote:
Originally Posted by wheel interested
My question is why are electric brakes illegal in Europe? I am curious about that.
I can only speak for Germany and I am not 100% shure if everything is true, but thats what I understood from what people and officials told me.

In German Regulations the Tow Vehicle and the Trailer brakes have to be independent from each other. A surge brake brakes with or without Tow Vehicle sounds silly but it does or at least it could. The surge brake "only" needs an impulse on the coupler i.e. by braking the TV.

The electricbrake need an electric impulse normaly given by the brake controller, as the brake controller is in the car, it is in the eyes of the germany laws not independent from the Tow Vehicle. Stupid Laws? YES!!!

I found the german guideline for electricbrakes, that I mentioned before. It is not illegal to drive with electric brakes as long as the brakecontroller unit is in the trailer and not in the Tow Vehicle!
The allowed max. trailerweight is depending on the possible brakingpower, which is (in the eyes of the German engeneers) lower than with a surge brake. Therefor they test the Tow Vehicle - Trailer Combo and then decide which max trailerweight they allow.


And the last big difference is, that the Tow Vehicle and the Trailer are seen as one unit, which means for us that we can not change the Tow Vehicle, as it is illegal to use another one as the tested with the trailer. So if you buy a new car all the tests have to be done again and if they don´t like the result, you have to change Axles, brakes and coupler to surge brake.

I love my country and the regulations, laws and technical engeneers at the TÜV...

We will try to get a permisision to drive with the elctric brakes, but it probably will be a hard and lonely way to go.


Bjoern
__________________
Björn H. Adam
Wolfenbuettel, Germany

AirstreamForumsMember No. AIR 5535

Proud Owner of a 1971 Ambassador 29' called "Dave"

-A stranger is a friend you just haven´t met before!-
unknown irish

davetheairstream
Pschoerrn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2005, 08:24 PM   #25
4 Rivet Member
Commercial Member
 
Currently Looking...
Somewhere , Indiana
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 432
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pschoerrn
I can only speak for Germany and I am not 100% shure if everything is true, but thats what I understood from what people and officials told me.

Snip.....

I love my country and the regulations, laws and technical engeneers at the TÜV...

We will try to get a permisision to drive with the elctric brakes, but it probably will be a hard and lonely way to go.


Bjoern
Bjoern,



All that I can say is WOW!

I thought that we had some tough regulations from state to state. California seems like nursery school compared to your regulations .



Thanks for sharing,

Henry
__________________
axleman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2005, 06:22 AM   #26
Patriotic
 
Chuck's Avatar

 
1973 23' Safari
North of Boston , Massachusetts
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 4,533
Images: 260
well, an electric brake system IS independant of the tow vehicle if you consider that it would have a break-away switch, and its own independant 12v electrical system. should the trailer disconnect from the tow vehicle, this safety mechanism will apply the brakes on the trailer.

what performs this function on a surge brake system?
__________________
Air:291
Wbcci: 3752
'73 Safari 23'
'00 Dodge Ram 1500 4x4 QC
Chuck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2005, 06:37 AM   #27
4 Rivet Member
 
Pschoerrn's Avatar

 
1971 29' Ambassador
Braunschweig , Germany
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 410
Images: 9
Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck
well, an electric brake system IS independant of the tow vehicle if you consider that it would have a break-away switch, and its own independant 12v electrical system. should the trailer disconnect from the tow vehicle, this safety mechanism will apply the brakes on the trailer.

what performs this function on a surge brake system?
You are right Chuck! Does every Trailer have a Brake-away switch?? If not is it possible to put them on every trailer? That would probably concern the thechnical engeneers overhere.

The Surge brakes are activated in case of seperation by a safty leach. If the connection between hitchball and coupler opens, the surge brake is automatically activated.

The leach is connected with the handbrake and is put over the hitchball when hitching up the trailer. In case of seperation it pulls the brake until the tires block, thats sometimes killing the tires, but better the tires then other people.

Bjoern


BTW. Thanks to all! This threat really is a big help for me!!
__________________
Björn H. Adam
Wolfenbuettel, Germany

AirstreamForumsMember No. AIR 5535

Proud Owner of a 1971 Ambassador 29' called "Dave"

-A stranger is a friend you just haven´t met before!-
unknown irish

davetheairstream
Pschoerrn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2005, 06:39 AM   #28
Well Preserved

 
1993 21' Sovereign
Colfax , North Carolina
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 20,192
Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck
well, an electric brake system IS independant of the tow vehicle if you consider that it would have a break-away switch, and its own independant 12v electrical system. should the trailer disconnect from the tow vehicle, this safety mechanism will apply the brakes on the trailer.

what performs this function on a surge brake system?
Chuck, on most surge brake systems I have seen and used, there is a lever attached to the master cylinder of the surge unit, which in turn is attached to the safety chains. Theoretically, if the trailer gets away from the tow vehicle, the safety chains will pull the lever up, and actuate the trailer brakes.
__________________

__________________
Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy, and taste good with ketchup.
Terry
overlander63 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Brakes working correctly? Dbraw Electrical - Systems, Generators, Batteries & Solar 8 02-27-2007 08:16 AM
Grabbing Brakes 74Tradewind Brakes & Brake Controllers 15 08-05-2004 06:26 PM
problem with Brakes jazzbone Brakes & Brake Controllers 33 08-23-2002 08:05 AM
Disc Brakes? J.Hemingway Brakes & Brake Controllers 2 08-22-2002 08:56 PM
Heeeelp! My brakes have failed...anyone have a similar experience? williamhenshall Airstream Motorhome Forums 9 07-12-2002 04:04 PM


Virginia Campgrounds

Reviews provided by




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:32 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

Airstream is a registered trademark of Airstream Inc. All rights reserved. Airstream trademark used under license to Social Knowledge LLC.