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01-20-2012, 10:57 PM
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#1
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Rivet Master
1973 23' Safari
1977 23' Safari
2018 25' Flying Cloud
Palmer Lake
, Colorado
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 4,092
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Salvaging Vintage Disk Brakes
Can vintage Ausco disk brakes be salvaged for use on a new Dexter axle?
Note: I am writing this for myself so that I check out all the variables. You might want to wait for a later post when I actually have answers...
The Dexter #10 axle can be fabricated to carry 2300 to 3500 lbs. This is the axle for almost all Airstreams (does yours weigh more than 7,000 lbs., or for single axle, more than 3,500 lbs?). The Dexter catalog provides drums/disks for a 15" wheel with 6x5.5" stud pattern for this axle. So far so good.
The Ausco disk mounting bracket has a 5-hole pattern. The Dexter catalog shows the Kodiak brake as their 3,500# disk brake. The mounting bracket for this brake caliper is 4-hole and the standard Kodiak disk for this weight class is drilled for a 5-lug drum. So the Ausco brake will not mount on this axle, nor will the standard 6-lug Airsteam wheel. So there is at least one issue--will Dexter provide their #10 axle with a 5-hole brake mounting plate? A second potential issue is--will Kodiak provide a 5-hole mounting plate for their 3,500#/10 inch disk caliper?
Why? Because if the Ausco calipers can't be refurbished or if they fail some few years down the road and Ausco parts are no longer available, or if the unobtainium Ausco disk itself is damaged, can the Ausco system be swapped out for Kodiak, or do you need a whole new axle?
Another question is--are the spindle diameters correct. The 3,500# Kodiak is designed for spindle #84 (1.72" diameter at the seal). I'm assuming from the catalog drawings that this spindle comes with a 4-hole mounting plate for the brake bracket. If you go to the next higher weight class Kodiak brake (6,000#), it fits spindle #42, which is 2.25" at the seal and appears to have a 5-hole mounting plate.
The photos show the Ausco disk brake installed and the Kodiak 4-hole mounting plate (Ausco 5-hole in background).
Questions:
1. Is the spindle size for the Ausco disk the same as the 10" (3,500# class) Kodiak disk?
2. Can I get this spindle on a #10 Dexter axle?
3. Is the 5-hole mounting plate available on the #10 Dexter axle?
4. Are the parts for the Ausco brake still available (pads, seal, and dust boot)?
Zep
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01-21-2012, 02:58 AM
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#2
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Rivet Master
Airstream Dealer
Corona
, California
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 16,497
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeppelinium
Can vintage Ausco disk brakes be salvaged for use on a new Dexter axle?
Note: I am writing this for myself so that I check out all the variables. You might want to wait for a later post when I actually have answers...
The Dexter #10 axle can be fabricated to carry 2300 to 3500 lbs. This is the axle for almost all Airstreams (does yours weigh more than 7,000 lbs., or for single axle, more than 3,500 lbs?). The Dexter catalog provides drums/disks for a 15" wheel with 6x5.5" stud pattern for this axle. So far so good.
The Ausco disk mounting bracket has a 5-hole pattern. The Dexter catalog shows the Kodiak brake as their 3,500# disk brake. The mounting bracket for this brake caliper is 4-hole and the standard Kodiak disk for this weight class is drilled for a 5-lug drum. So the Ausco brake will not mount on this axle, nor will the standard 6-lug Airsteam wheel. So there is at least one issue--will Dexter provide their #10 axle with a 5-hole brake mounting plate? A second potential issue is--will Kodiak provide a 5-hole mounting plate for their 3,500#/10 inch disk caliper?
Why? Because if the Ausco calipers can't be refurbished or if they fail some few years down the road and Ausco parts are no longer available, or if the unobtainium Ausco disk itself is damaged, can the Ausco system be swapped out for Kodiak, or do you need a whole new axle?
Another question is--are the spindle diameters correct. The 3,500# Kodiak is designed for spindle #84 (1.72" diameter at the seal). I'm assuming from the catalog drawings that this spindle comes with a 4-hole mounting plate for the brake bracket. If you go to the next higher weight class Kodiak brake (6,000#), it fits spindle #42, which is 2.25" at the seal and appears to have a 5-hole mounting plate.
The photos show the Ausco disk brake installed and the Kodiak 4-hole mounting plate (Ausco 5-hole in background).
Attachment 149288 Attachment 149289
Questions:
1. Is the spindle size for the Ausco disk the same as the 10" (3,500# class) Kodiak disk?
2. Can I get this spindle on a #10 Dexter axle?
3. Is the 5-hole mounting plate available on the #10 Dexter axle?
4. Are the parts for the Ausco brake still available (pads, seal, and dust boot)?
Zep
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Some oiginal Ausco parts are still available, for the calipers.
Andy
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01-21-2012, 05:40 AM
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#3
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Vintage Kin
Fort Worth
, Texas
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 8,014
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Good idea for a thread. I'd can 'em, though.
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01-21-2012, 07:03 AM
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#4
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Retired.
Currently Looking...
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, At Large
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 21,276
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Roger, I've swapped the old discs out for new Kodiak ones on a '77 Sovereign. I was even able to re-use the old metal lines. I put the Dexter actuator under the cover the old vacuum actuator was in.
__________________
Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy, and taste good with ketchup.
Terry
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01-21-2012, 08:05 AM
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#5
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Rivet Master
Airstream Dealer
Corona
, California
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 16,497
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeppelinium
The Ausco disk mounting bracket has a 5-hole pattern. The Dexter catalog shows the Kodiak brake as their 3,500# disk brake. The mounting bracket for this brake caliper is 4-hole and the standard Kodiak disk for this weight class is drilled for a 5-lug drum. So the Ausco brake will not mount on this axle, nor will the standard 6-lug Airsteam wheel. So there is at least one issue--will Dexter provide their #10 axle with a 5-hole brake mounting plate? A second potential issue is--will Kodiak provide a 5-hole mounting plate for their 3,500#/10 inch disk caliper?
Why? Because if the Ausco calipers can't be refurbished or if they fail some few years down the road and Ausco parts are no longer available, or if the unobtainium Ausco disk itself is damaged, can the Ausco system be swapped out for Kodiak, or do you need a whole new axle?
Another question is--are the spindle diameters correct. The 3,500# Kodiak is designed for spindle #84 (1.72" diameter at the seal). I'm assuming from the catalog drawings that this spindle comes with a 4-hole mounting plate for the brake bracket. If you go to the next higher weight class Kodiak brake (6,000#), it fits spindle #42, which is 2.25" at the seal and appears to have a 5-hole mounting plate.
The photos show the Ausco disk brake installed and the Kodiak 4-hole mounting plate (Ausco 5-hole in background).
Questions:
1. Is the spindle size for the Ausco disk the same as the 10" (3,500# class) Kodiak disk?
2. Can I get this spindle on a #10 Dexter axle?
3. Is the 5-hole mounting plate available on the #10 Dexter axle?
4. Are the parts for the Ausco brake still available (pads, seal, and dust boot)?
Zep
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Smaller axles have smaller spindles.
Dexter will not make a special small axle using a 12 inch brake mounting plate.
# 3. No
A few pistons are still available.
The boots (rubber dust caps) are available.
The pads are made with the lining covering as much of the plate that is possible, which provides a larger pad area, are locally made, as they have been for years.
Andy
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01-21-2012, 09:36 AM
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#6
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Rivet Master
1973 23' Safari
1977 23' Safari
2018 25' Flying Cloud
Palmer Lake
, Colorado
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 4,092
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Quote:
Originally Posted by overlander63
Roger, I've swapped the old discs out for new Kodiak ones on a '77 Sovereign. I was even able to re-use the old metal lines. I put the Dexter actuator under the cover the old vacuum actuator was in.
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The problem is you can't do the swap and get a new axle. Zep
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01-21-2012, 09:38 AM
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#7
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Rivet Master
1973 23' Safari
1977 23' Safari
2018 25' Flying Cloud
Palmer Lake
, Colorado
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 4,092
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Inland RV Center, In
Smaller axles have smaller spindles.
Dexter will not make a special small axle using a 12 inch brake mounting plate.
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Andy, aren't you doing an alternative axle? Will they duplicate the old Henschens--spindle size and mounting plate?
Zep
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01-21-2012, 09:39 AM
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#8
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Rivet Master
Airstream Dealer
Corona
, California
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 16,497
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeppelinium
The problem is you can't do the swap and get a new axle. Zep
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Zep.
You can do the "swap" and get new axles, but not Dexter axles.
We do it all the time.
Andy
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01-21-2012, 09:41 AM
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#9
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Rivet Master
Airstream Dealer
Corona
, California
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 16,497
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeppelinium
Andy, aren't you doing an alternative axle? Will they duplicate the old Henschens--spindle size and mounting plate?
Zep
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Zep.
The axles we provide are made to the original Henschen specifications.
Therefore disc brake swap out, are a piece of cake.
Andy
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01-21-2012, 10:45 AM
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#10
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Rivet Master
1973 23' Safari
1977 23' Safari
2018 25' Flying Cloud
Palmer Lake
, Colorado
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 4,092
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For completeness, here's a bit more data on the Ausco disk system. You see the grease seal where the old crud has been scraped off and even the heads of the lug bolts.
Zep
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01-21-2012, 11:13 AM
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#11
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Rivet Master
1977 31' Excella 500
West Sacramento
, California
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 731
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My Auscos were salvaged and placed on new Henschen axles.
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01-22-2012, 02:17 PM
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#12
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Retired.
Currently Looking...
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, At Large
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 21,276
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeppelinium
The problem is you can't do the swap and get a new axle. Zep
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I'm confused. The Axis 12" spindle fits the disc brake mount like any other 12", even the ones the trailer came with. Colin Hyde is selling them that way. The only potential difference is Axis/Al-Ko 12" axles seem to only come in 22.5 degree starting angle. If you want to increase ride height with a higher starting angle, that would be where the differences start.
__________________
Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy, and taste good with ketchup.
Terry
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01-22-2012, 02:23 PM
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#13
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Rivet Master
1973 23' Safari
1977 23' Safari
2018 25' Flying Cloud
Palmer Lake
, Colorado
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 4,092
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True for Axis, and true for Dexter, as far as it goes. The problem is, if the axle is smaller than 3,500#, Dexter will not put a 12" (eg, 2.25") spindle on it. You get a 1.72" spindle, instead. Period. So if you're putting axles on a 4,300# Safari, the axles are 2,300# each. Too small, in Dexter's opinion, for the bigger spindle. The customer is NOT always right.
Dexter, you make great replacement axles, but in this one regard, you s..k. Hope we can talk you into changing your rules, but I know many have tried and failed.
Zep
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01-22-2012, 02:29 PM
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#14
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Retired.
Currently Looking...
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, At Large
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 21,276
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeppelinium
True for Axis, and true for Dexter, as far as it goes. The problem is, if the axle is smaller than 3,500#, Dexter will not put a 12" (eg, 2.25") spindle on it. You get a 1.72" spindle, instead. Period. So if you're putting axles on a 4,300# Safari, the axles are 2,300# each. Too small, in Dexter's opinion, for the bigger spindle. The customer is NOT always right.
Dexter, you make great replacement axles, but in this one regard, you s..k. Hope we can talk you into changing your rules, but I know many have tried and failed.
Zep
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Plan "B" (C?) would be to order the smallest rated large tube axles, and cut the rear of the notch in the frame so the larger tube will fit. It's not perfect, but doable.
__________________
Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy, and taste good with ketchup.
Terry
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01-22-2012, 02:42 PM
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#15
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Rivet Master
Airstream Dealer
Corona
, California
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 16,497
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeppelinium
True for Axis, and true for Dexter, as far as it goes. The problem is, if the axle is smaller than 3,500#, Dexter will not put a 12" (eg, 2.25") spindle on it. You get a 1.72" spindle, instead. Period. So if you're putting axles on a 4,300# Safari, the axles are 2,300# each. Too small, in Dexter's opinion, for the bigger spindle. The customer is NOT always right.
Dexter, you make great replacement axles, but in this one regard, you s..k. Hope we can talk you into changing your rules, but I know many have tried and failed.
Zep
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Zep.
We have had meetings with Dexter engineers.
They are totally stuborn and "bull headed" about putting 12 inch brakes on torsion axles with a rating less than 3500 pounds.
We offered to purchase a large quantity from them, and their answer was still "NO".
So, we gave up trying to convince them.
Almost the same story about shock brackets.
They simply don't care about having safer brakes on a smaller rated axle.
Andy
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08-07-2012, 03:25 PM
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#16
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1 Rivet Member
1964 28' Ambassador
Abbeville
, Louisiana
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 7
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Question? I have a 1964 Ambassador International Twin beds rear bath...I need new hubs and brakes... do I change the original axles too?
__________________
Even if you fall on your face, you're still moving forward. by Victor Kiam
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08-08-2012, 02:55 PM
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#17
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1 Rivet Member
1964 28' Ambassador
Abbeville
, Louisiana
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 7
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Never mind.. stupid question! I'll just do it all.
__________________
Even if you fall on your face, you're still moving forward. by Victor Kiam
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08-08-2012, 07:51 PM
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#18
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Rivet Master
1973 23' Safari
1977 23' Safari
2018 25' Flying Cloud
Palmer Lake
, Colorado
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 4,092
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodgodman
Never mind.. stupid question! I'll just do it all.
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Not stupid. But, yes, do it all.
Zep
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