Loss of Control From Brake Binding?

[FlyinNitwits]

Originally Posted by OTRA15

Wondering if you are monitoring the ideas? Thanks

Yes, as noted last night - but I also have a life and a job and I'm not logged in to the internet all day!

Our Touareg, as discussed above, is deemed to be just fine for the 23FB. There is a large Touareg forum here http://www.airforums.com/forums/f463...rs-134917.html

Of course we have the diesel with full tow package, which can pull up to 7,700 lb. The dry weight of our AS is 4,800 so with water, clothes, food, etc we are estimating no more than 5,800. No kids, very little in the trunk of the TV. So has been more than enough to pull us up and down through the passes on the road to San Francisco, CA from Vancouver, BC with great ease.

We bought our Reese as a trunnion bar with both WD and sway control, as I understood it.

I will check this thread again tomorrow some time.

Thanks again for all the advice!

[Ohiobrits]

FlyinNitwits,

Are the symptoms you describe a new problem? I'm assuming you have towed for some time successfully without these issues? If so, think carefully about what you have changed on the setup recently intentionally or not.

You are right that the 23 is a very easy load for the Touareg. You should not be having these issues.

As others have noted, make sure you have sufficient tongue weight. The 23FB has an unloaded tongue weight a little bit below 10% of the AS gross so you will want to be sure to load appropriately to ensure sufficient weight up front. Also, your black and grey tanks are at the rear. I assume they are empty when you had this issue? They are pretty large and would cause a drop in tongue weight if not empty.

just some more random thoughts....

[OTRA15]

Thanks FlyinNitwits for the reply -- makes sense.

One thing I have always wondered about, however, is why the wheelbase of the tow vehicle is not one of the factors considered in sway problem issues. Yours is about 113" I believe? Perhaps this general question is a bit OT here, but it is a factor to be considered IMO.

Picture a two-axle trailer starting to sway as a long lever, the swinging of which is translated by the WD and sway control hitch into another lever (the tow vehicle) which can only resist/correct for the sway by its four tires on the ground. If these tires are closer together front-to-back, as in a short wheelbase, would not this compromise the tow vehicle's ability to counteract the trailer sway?

The online discussions about tow vehicle wheelbase vs. trailer length suggest that the Touareg is at its upper limit when towing a 23' trailer. FYI and FWIW . . .

Sorry for the theoretical discussion, but TV wheelbase needs to be considered, again in my opinion.

Over and out!

[ROBERT CROSS]

ORTA15,

Wheelbase.....It's not really a 'theory', more like a shortcoming that some feel compelled to work around.

Bob

[J. Morgan]

Imho, when a trailer starts oscillating out of control, neither TV weight or wheelbase matters a lot.

The issue is controlling sway, and if the sway starts, the sway control devise is either faulty or deployed improperly.




Brevi tempore!

[dkottum]

OTRA15, there is another consideration about wheelbase and it's resistance to sway.

The swaying trailer pushes the truck receiver to the side. The truck acts like a lever pivoting on the rear axle. So the distance from the truck receiver attachment to the rear axle must also be considered. The longer that distance, the greater leverage to move the truck's front axle sideways.

So there are two important measurements when considering wheelbase resistance to sway. The distance from the hitch ball on the truck receiver to the rear axle. And the distance between truck axles (wheelbase). The are never independent of one another in resisting sway.

Except in the case of fifth wheel trailers and bumper pull trailers equipped with a Hensley design hitch. In this case the trailer pivots on or near the rear axle, and the leverage effect makes little to no difference. The sway attempts to push the truck's rear axle to the side, there is no leverage to the front axle (except perhaps whatever little give there is in the rear suspension or tire sidewall, which is negligible). Any sway attempt is stopped at the truck's rear axle.

The o.p.'s Touareg has a short wheelbase, but also a short distance from rear axle to the receiver ball. That ratio is what matters, and it can resist sway better than some longer wheelbase vehicles with long rear overhang.

There's something else besides wheelbase wrong with his setup, unless he has a long receiver extension positioning the hitch ball well behind the bumper. Could this be part of the problem?

[nrgtrakr]

Originally Posted by nrgtrakr

I enjoyed this ...
http://www.timberman.com/rig/sway.htm

One more time ...

[rostam]

Everything else being equal, the longer wheelbase allows for a more stable ride. There was a technical article in another thread explaining this from a theoretical perspective.

[dkottum]

Originally Posted by rostam

Everything else being equal, the longer wheelbase allows for a more stable ride. There was a technical article in another thread explaining this from a theoretical perspective.

That is exactly the point. The ratio of receiver ball distance from truck rear axle to wheelbase changes the effect of sway on the truck's front axle. If the effective distance is reduced to near zero (Hensley equipped trailers for example) sway is eliminated.

[FlyinNitwits]

[There's something else besides wheelbase wrong with his setup, unless he has a long receiver extension positioning the hitch ball well behind the bumper. Could this be part of the problem?]

This is an interesting thought. I am not familiar with hitches but the tow ball unit our AS dealer sold us puts the ball about 7-8" out from the rear bumper. I have wondered if this was normal. I have it on the tightest setting.


Vancouver, BC
2015 Flying Cloud 23 FB / soon to be towed by VW Touareg TDI

[dkottum]

Flyin', that's too much distance, especially on a shorter wheelbase vehicle, and contributes to your sway issue. The closer the ball to the bumper, the less leverage sway has to pivot the tow vehicle about it's rear axle. Some have taken the stinger to a machine shop to drill a new hitch pin hole and cut off some of the excess length to get the ball closer.

I would still suspect there is more to it, what is causing the sway in the first place, and would take a close look at trailer loading. Too heavy in back while too light in front.

The 23FB is designed with a relatively light hitch weight, but most of its storage is in front as well as under the front bed, which would bring more weight on the hitch when normally loaded for travel. I don't know where the under-trailer liquid storage tanks are located, but if for example you had a full tank(s) behind the trailer axle, very little weight under the bed, and a box of firewood in the rear bath, a sway condition would be more likely than a well-distributed load.

[cwf]

Originally Posted by FlyinNitwits

[There's something else besides wheelbase wrong with his setup, unless he has a long receiver extension positioning the hitch ball well behind the bumper. Could this be part of the problem?]

This is an interesting thought. I am not familiar with hitches but the tow ball unit our AS dealer sold us puts the ball about 7-8" out from the rear bumper. I have wondered if this was normal. I have it on the tightest setting.


Vancouver, BC
2015 Flying Cloud 23 FB / soon to be towed by VW Touareg TDI

Well, that can give a longer arm of moment.. Think of it as leverage. The further back from the rear axle, the more "leverage" And travel of the ball in all axis is increased.

I would get someone local to help sort this out, quickly.

You may have loose components or just bad combination or bad adjustment.. Approach logically, accepting there is an issue that my be beyond the forum helpfulness may be the right decision.

For instance, there was a thread that went on for months... When I spoke to the person with the problem, within 15 minutes we "found"'the problem. It has been flawless since then.

Yeah, just dumb luck, I agree.

[m.hony]

I still say check/adjust weight distribution/seay control first-


Sent from my iPhone using Airstream Forums

[PKI]

There are some posts that report the sway control on Reese Dual Cam hitches can have issues if the cams are not properly lined up with the bar surfaces. An experienced Reese user could probably provide details on what parameters to investigate.

Additionally, the balance of a 23FB would be negatively impacted by low LPG tanks, no storage in front of trailer, and/or full waste tanks with no fresh water in the forward tank.

The other possibility is that sway might have started inadvertently by driver input to road or wind movement and was amplified by repeated attempts to correct the sway.

[OTRA15]

Originally Posted by FlyinNitwits

We have experienced a couple of scary situations where our 2015 Flying Cloud 23FB, towed by our 2014 VW Touareg, started swinging wildly from side to side. First time was having just left home and gotten onto the freeway - long, slow bend to the left at about 40 mph. Second time was after an hour on the freeway, going downhill at about 60 mph. Both times we had no control - difficult to drive "into" things as it kept going from side to side. Truly thought we might flip.

My father thinks one of the brakes on the (dual axle) AS is binding. Any other ideas, before I take it to our (lousy) dealer?

Howdy, just wondering if you got this figured out? We might all be able to learn a thing or two. Thanks.