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08-01-2013, 10:33 AM
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#1
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Rivet Master
Commercial Member
1986 31' Sovereign
1975 25' Tradewind
1967 17' Caravel
Sherfield English
, Hampshire
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 700
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Help! Help! Positive Ground Tow Vehicle
Good Morniing America!
Can anyone please help?
I am fitting a Prodigy RF to an Avion. A very pretty trailer with a very pretty tow vehicle - a 51 Chevy pick-up
Only problem, the Chevy is POSITIVE EARTH!!!
I can't see how to reconcile the positive vehicle power going through the hitch AND powering the brakes??
Advice soon please! This is a live job on a countdown
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08-01-2013, 10:46 AM
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#2
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Rivet Master
1966 22' Safari
Hilltop Lakes
, Texas
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,764
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Just a guess...
Would separate wiring from the brakes to the controller work? In other words, disconnect the brake ground (earth) cable from the trailer frame, and connect it to a wire that runs to the negative side of the controller--wire size adequate for the current, of course.
I claim no experience whatsoever in doing this, so accept or reject this idea as you see fit.
Good luck!
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08-01-2013, 10:51 AM
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#3
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Figment of My Imagination
2012 Interstate Coach
From All Over
, More Than Anywhere Else
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 10,868
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mimiandrews
Would separate wiring from the brakes to the controller work? In other words, disconnect the brake ground (earth) cable from the trailer frame, and connect it to a wire that runs to the negative side of the controller--wire size adequate for the current, of course.
I claim no experience whatsoever in doing this, so accept or reject this idea as you see fit.
Good luck!
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If you do that, the power for the brake controller would have to be provided by a 12v-to-12v isolation transformer, which should allow you to reverse the polarity by hooking one side up backwards.
But that doesn't help with the lights, only the brakes.
__________________
I thought getting old would take longer!
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08-01-2013, 10:57 AM
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#4
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Retired.
Currently Looking...
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, At Large
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 21,276
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Protagonist
But that doesn't help with the lights, only the brakes.
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Light bulbs don't care if they are positive or negative earth.
Honestly, neither do the brake magnets.
__________________
Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy, and taste good with ketchup.
Terry
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08-01-2013, 11:03 AM
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#5
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Home of Vortex tuning
2013 27' FB Eddie Bauer
Spearfish
, South Dakota
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 614
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I've never heard of an american vehicle with a positive ground. Our trucks were 6 volt negative ground until they went 12 volt around late 50's early 60's.
I had issues with installing a 8 track player ( I'm old) in my '58 MGA.
I had a separate battery to power it and mounted the case without grounding it to avoid this problem.
Unless you totally insulate the hitch from frame grounding there will be issues.
Somewhere in that '51's life it was converted 6/12 volt, +/- flipped.
__________________
"Chip Tank" is in Westwood Ca.
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08-01-2013, 11:28 AM
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#6
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Rivet Master
2008 27' Classic FB
1959 22' Flying Cloud
fairview
, New Mexico
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 575
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What you need is a new voltage regulator for the pickup that is neg ground. Swap the wires for the amp gauge reverse the battery cables . Then polarize the reulator per instructions on the reg. And then you have a neg ground system.
__________________
Avion C11
1959 Flying Cloud 1969 Tradewind
1973 Safari
1983 34 ft Limited
2004 F250 superduty ext cab
2014 F350 longbed superduty crewcab
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08-01-2013, 11:28 AM
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#7
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Rivet Master
2012 28' International
Currently Looking...
New Orleans
, Louisiana
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 2,077
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If the truck was converted to postive ground, may be easier to convert it back. I have 3 english sports cars and the 2 older ones are postive ground and the third is negative.
__________________
Jim N5TJZ Air# 174
2012 International Serenity 28
2005 Safari 25 SS Traded
1968 Globetrotter Sold
2011 F150 Ecoboost
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08-01-2013, 11:37 AM
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#8
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Rivet Master
2008 27' Classic FB
1959 22' Flying Cloud
fairview
, New Mexico
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 575
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__________________
Avion C11
1959 Flying Cloud 1969 Tradewind
1973 Safari
1983 34 ft Limited
2004 F250 superduty ext cab
2014 F350 longbed superduty crewcab
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08-01-2013, 12:03 PM
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#9
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Rivet Master
1977 Argosy 24
Currently Looking...
Milltown
, Wisconsin
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,087
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As an old hot rodder, my advice is it's time to change the truck to negative ground. The only problem will be the radio if it has one.
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08-01-2013, 01:50 PM
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#10
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Rivet Master
1965 17' Caravel
1983 27' Excella
Walnut Grove/Laguna Woods
, California
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,635
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CDONA
I've never heard of an american vehicle with a positive ground.
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Hudsons were negative ground until they went to 12v in 1954 or 55.
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08-01-2013, 01:51 PM
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#11
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Rivet Master
Commercial Member
1986 31' Sovereign
1975 25' Tradewind
1967 17' Caravel
Sherfield English
, Hampshire
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 700
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ventport
As an old hot rodder, my advice is it's time to change the truck to negative ground. The only problem will be the radio if it has one.
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"Funny", my friend has a friend who is a hot rodder! I'm positive changing the polarity will solve it! The "stock" answer!
Sorry, couldn't resist it!
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11-05-2014, 07:07 PM
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#12
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2 Rivet Member
1978 Argosy 24
MooreHaven
, Florida
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 75
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Fords were positive ground for many years,never saw a GM car with positive ground.That was common on english cars, to change it on them the fuel pump was a problem along with the fuel gauge and the radio and generator no simple job
__________________
This is only temporary unless it works! Red Green
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11-11-2014, 02:53 PM
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#13
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Moderator dude
1966 26' Overlander
Phoenix
, Arizona
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 7,497
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldiesel
Fords were positive ground for many years,....
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Ford Motor company was 6V and positive ground up to 1955. In 1956 all Ford Motor Company US products went to 12 V negative ground.
>>>>>>>>>>Action
__________________
1966 Mercury Park Lane 4 DR Breezeway 410 4V, C-6, 2.80 - Streamless.
1966 Lincoln 4 door Convertible 462 4V 1971 Ford LTD Convertible 429 4V Phoenix ~ Yeah it's hot however it's a dry heat!
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11-18-2014, 10:51 AM
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#14
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Rivet Master
1987 32' Excella
Nepean
, Ontario
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,414
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My 1999 Dodge Ram 2500 with Cummins Diesel came from the factory with a positive ground. It also has a factory-installed Bargman connector for the umbilical cord.
__________________
VE3JDZ
AIR 12148
1987 Excella 32-foot
1999 Dodge Ram 2500HD Diesel
WBCCI 8080
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11-18-2014, 11:22 AM
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#15
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Site Team
2007 30' Classic S/O
Somewhere
, South Carolina
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 6,436
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blkmagikca
My 1999 Dodge Ram 2500 with Cummins Diesel came from the factory with a positive ground.
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Care to check this or prove somehow?
Wishing the OP luck, just challenging the Dodge statement.
My 1997 and 2005 Dodge Cummins each have two batteries.
__________________
S/OS #001 2005 Dodge Ram 2500 5.9L 6 Speed
16" Michelins, Hi Spec Wheels, Max Brake, Dexter 4 Piston Disc Brakes, Carslile Actuator, Equal-I-Zer, Dill TPMS. Campfire cook. BMV-712. DEMCO 21K Lb Cast Iron coupler
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11-18-2014, 11:44 AM
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#16
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CHIEF THINGAMAJIG FIXER
1964 26' Overlander
bugtussel
, South Carolina
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 47
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Wasn't going to say anything because I didn't know if it might be a canadian thing but I second the Ram observation. Positive ground????
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11-18-2014, 12:03 PM
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#17
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Rivet Master
1972 31' Sovereign
1975 31' Excella 500
Currently Looking...
Benton
, Arkansas
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 5,868
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Really old thread, but really there isn't any issue when switching a vehicle from positive to negative ground.
Gauges don't care, starter doesn't care, most other electric motors don't care, lights don't care...
Therefore the easiest solution is to convert the vehicle to negative ground and 12volts at the same time.
Going to 12 volts isn't a challenge either, just a few more simple fixes.
1/2 Ton 4WD Truck, 72 Sovereign Hensley Arrow
__________________
The fact that I am opinionated does not presuppose that I am wrong......
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11-18-2014, 12:25 PM
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#18
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Site Team
2007 30' Classic S/O
Somewhere
, South Carolina
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 6,436
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Disagree.
Modern vehicles are packed with electronics and computers.
__________________
S/OS #001 2005 Dodge Ram 2500 5.9L 6 Speed
16" Michelins, Hi Spec Wheels, Max Brake, Dexter 4 Piston Disc Brakes, Carslile Actuator, Equal-I-Zer, Dill TPMS. Campfire cook. BMV-712. DEMCO 21K Lb Cast Iron coupler
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11-18-2014, 12:48 PM
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#19
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Moderator dude
1966 26' Overlander
Phoenix
, Arizona
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 7,497
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By the mid to late 1950s all US built vehicles were negative ground. Most of the vehicles built in the UK (no matter the builder like Ford of England) were postive ground (earth) until the late 1960s with Austin holding out to 1971. Many of these have been coverted to negative ground.
Since about 1968 when electronic devices (mostly ignition products) were introduced on US built automobiles to start to comply with GVT regulation, the ground side of the system becomes very important as electronic devices require a clean and strong electrical signal from both sides. Many vehicles that had early electronic devices also had a new additional ground wire instead of relying on the engine block or frame as a good source of ground. This was to get a clean ground signal for the electronic device.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>Action
__________________
1966 Mercury Park Lane 4 DR Breezeway 410 4V, C-6, 2.80 - Streamless.
1966 Lincoln 4 door Convertible 462 4V 1971 Ford LTD Convertible 429 4V Phoenix ~ Yeah it's hot however it's a dry heat!
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11-18-2014, 02:18 PM
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#20
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Rivet Master
1972 31' Sovereign
1975 31' Excella 500
Currently Looking...
Benton
, Arkansas
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 5,868
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Help! Help! Positive Ground Tow Vehicle
But I cant name a single car that uses any kind of computer that left the factory with a positive ground system.
As stated above, the last American vehicle to have positive ground lest the factory in 55.
I happen to own one of these cars that I converted to 12 volts and negative ground in just a little time, for not a lot of money.
http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/g...Sonoma-1-1.jpg
As an aside, pointless trivia, there are many who contend that positive ground is superior to negative ground in the transmission of power throughout a vehicle.
1/2 Ton 4WD Truck, 72 Sovereign Hensley Arrow
__________________
The fact that I am opinionated does not presuppose that I am wrong......
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