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slowmover · 08-14-2012, 08:08 PM

10.2" That's how it fit a 14" wheel.

wkerfoot · 08-14-2012, 08:31 PM

For what its worth, I recall that the Kodiak calipers are single piston floating calipers and the 12" Dexter calipers are double piston fixed pistons.

Bill

TouringDan · 08-14-2012, 09:03 PM

Thanks for starting this thread Perry.

Not that it makes any difference, but does anybody know what calipers and actuator Airstream uses when they provide disc brakes as an option on new trailers?

Does anybody know of any test data on the braking performance of 12" drum brakes versus 12" disc brakes for an 8,000 lb Airstream Trailer (or SOB)?

Dan

slowmover · 08-14-2012, 09:29 PM

Does anybody know of any test data on the braking performance of 12" drum brakes versus 12" disc brakes for an 8,000 lb Airstream Trailer (or SOB)?

I looked for and didn't find it. 2Airishuman probably had something stashed away. In "most" instances drums & discs won't be that different . . it is in repeated hard use (mountain descents) that discs pay for themselves in one day. Or, in wet weather over many miles. Etc.

Second is that the "best" brakes will stop the rig faster than the TV solo. To do this with drums takes quite a bit of work, and finesse to get it all correct. No voltage drop problems, no funky magnet problems, and perfect adjustment (on all wheels, equally). By comparison, a set of discs has no similar set-up problems.

Plus, the aftermarket now offers some high-zoot rotors and pad compounds for those willing to experiment. Best quality calipers have yet to be determined (if the interchange from OEM to trailer aftermarket is 1:1).

Using a decelerometer (60-0, repeatedly) will show the differences. But the test is those downgrades, wet surfaces, and equal braking force by all wheels.

Correct hitch rigging (per scale value formula) gets the most weight on the TT wheels, too. And a level trailer keeps one or two axles from "loading up" (tandem or tridem) that the rearmost loses traction in hard braking. TT tires also need to have good traction (design & condition) for brakes to have maximum effectiveness. (As TT tires should always be run at maximum sidewall pressure, this is moot as a discussion point).

The addition of TT anti-lock for disc brakes will be the icing on this cake where the TV is equipped the same way. The threads on DIRECLINK and TT Anti-lock have more info on that.

.

TouringDan · 08-14-2012, 09:59 PM

In "most" instances, drums and discs won't be that different...

That makes sense in theory, but in reality I believe that discs will stop substantially quicker and with much less drama than drums because they are a much simpler design and "always adjusted properly since they need no adjusting". Anybody that has panic stopped a car with drum brakes versus a car with disc brakes knows that this is true.

I don't see why a TV with a trailer will stop faster than the TV alone. As long as you have enough braking force to skid the tires, the stopping distance depends on the coeficient of friction between the tires and the road surface and the ability to keep the tires from skidding (thanks to ABS). I don't have all the driving experience that you have towing loads, so you may be correct. I just don't understand how this is possible (if indeed it is).

Dan

ROBERTSUNRUS · 08-14-2012, 10:35 PM

Hi, so if the disk brakes are so modern on trailers why do they use parts from an almost 30 year old Chevy. The drum brakes, for the most part, are very dependable; When they make a modern disk brake system for trailers that is as dependable as the ones on my old tow vehicle, I will think about them. With proper use of your brakes, not riding them three miles down the mountain, all brakes work better. DOWN SHIFT YOUR TRANS. My only complaint with trailer drum brakes is the fact that, unlike cars and trucks, they aren't balanced. [Thank You Centramatics]

crispyboy · 08-15-2012, 06:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SafariSS

Don't get me wrong I am sure they are awesome performing but I can buy alot of 39.00 backer plates for my old traditional electric brakes.

Not to hijack the thread but prices have gone up on backing plates. Last week I found out that 3 of 4 grease seals went bad (replaced seals March 2012) and had to purchase new complete backing plates at a cost of $69 plus tax each. (trailer had new drums and backing plates in 2010 with limited mileage). Magnets and drums were severely grooved from continually turning up the controller. Found a machine shop that could reface the magnet portion of the drum ($75 for 3 drums). The trailer also has electric brake wiring issues that I haven't tracked down yet - not getting equal amperage to each wheel.

Sometime in the future I will go disk brakes and get rid of the electric brake HEADACHE! If you run a pivot point project hitch you know for certain when the brakes are adjusted equally and when they are not. Adjustment is not an issue with disk brakes. If I hadn't already had trip plans scheduled I would have made the change.

Where is the best place to mount the hydraulic actuator? Will it work inside of the toolbox on the tongue? Can it be subjected to the weather or does it need to be inside the coach?

crispyboy · 08-15-2012, 07:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ROBERTSUNRUS

Hi, so if the disk brakes are so modern on trailers why do they use parts from an almost 30 year old Chevy.

All disk brakes work essentially the same way. The improvements have come from the braking material, rotor design and size (vented, grooved) and single piston vs. dual piston. The only negative that I can think of against reliability can be different with the materials that make up the caliper. Some vehicles are subject to "lot rot" when they sit around and not used. Calipers or pistons can get sticky if they are not used on a regular basis. The Chevrolet parts mentioned should be a common item that could be obtained from an autoparts store out in the middle of nowhere.

The actuators seemed to be the most troublesome part and it sounds like they are getting better.

perryg114 · 08-15-2012, 09:22 AM

The industry for trailer disk brakes seems to be driven by the boat market where corrosion is more of an issue. You can get the Kodiak calipers in stainless steel and also coated steel to resist corrosion. Can you imagine drum brakes after being exposed to salt water and then left to sit for months. I will probably use DOT5 fluid if I go with a disk brake system. DOT5 won't rot the hydraulic system like standard brake fluid. The military uses if for that reason and I have used it as well with no issues. There are alot of urban myths related to not using DOT5 but I think most of them are started by the folks that want your brake components to rot.

Perry

overlander63 · 08-15-2012, 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TouringDan

Not that it makes any difference, but does anybody know what calipers and actuator Airstream uses when they provide disc brakes as an option on new trailers?
Dan

Airstream no longer offers disc brakes for trailers.

perryg114 · 08-15-2012, 11:45 AM

I talked with Kodiak and they have been very helpful and easy to communicate with. They are not aware of problems with the Airstream rims but that does not mean that the problem does not exist. It would be nice to know what year AS rims are going to be a problem.

Perry

overlander63 · 08-15-2012, 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by perryg114

I talked with Kodiak and they have been very helpful and easy to communicate with. They are not aware of problems with the Airstream rims but that does not mean that the problem does not exist. It would be nice to know what year AS rims are going to be a problem.

Perry

1970 through at least 1978. I'll see if I can remember to take and post a photo here, so y'all will know if your wheel looks like *this*, you may have a problem.

AtomicNo13 · 08-15-2012, 07:34 PM

I have the Kodiak hub/ discs mated with a Carlisle actuator.

Both are very high uality, and stop my heavy 34 triple axle like nothing.
The pads are common off the shelf parts. Pads are very inexpensive, plentiful, available in a variety of ualitys and compounds.

I also believe AS offers this same package as an option on current year trailers.
My conversion was performed at the factory FWIW,

Now that I have used this, I will never use drums and magnets EVER again... they simply don't feel strong, or safe, not to mention the effectiveness,

perryg114 · 08-15-2012, 07:47 PM

Ok here is a shot of one of my rims. Does this look like this rims from the 70's what won't work?

Perry

overlander63 · 08-15-2012, 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by perryg114

Ok here is a shot of one of my rims. Does this look like this rims from the 70's what won't work?

Perry

I'm afraid so. If you put the wheel on, it won't turn. It will look like you could just scrape the dirt and crud off the wheel, and it would work, but after you do that, it will look like if you just sanded the corrosion off, it would work, etc. I ended up getting shims to move the wheel out to clear the calipers. and then it was still really a close fit.

perryg114 · 08-16-2012, 06:59 AM

So I wonder what type of brake pads the Dexter calipers use? I think I will work on drawing up the rim and send it to Kodiak and let them take a look at it.

Perry

aftermath · 08-16-2012, 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by overlander63

Airstream no longer offers disc brakes for trailers.

Last year I went in to the local Airstream dealer and talked to the head technician about changing over to disc brakes. He told me that properly functioning, maintained and adjusted drum brakes work as designed and will stop the trailer just fine. He went on to say that the change over is expensive and that the issue was with the actuators being used.

When Airstream first put them on trailers the actuators were really problematic and after a couple of years they changed them over to another type which likewise had some issues. He said that there were new ones out there but none had really been proven over the long run as yet. His suggestion to me was to wait until things settled down and a dependable actuator made it to the market.

Like cars, the discs are better but if the actuator is questionable I am going to wait. I find it interesting that Airstream is not offering disc brakes as an option at this time. Thanks for the info.

**GCinSC2** · 08-18-2012, 06:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by perryg114

So I wonder what type of brake pads the Dexter calipers use? I think I will work on drawing up the rim and send it to Kodiak and let them take a look at it.

Perry

Perry,

I have a spare set of Dexter calipers and brakes in my garage from my '07 30' S/O. Caliper part number K71-636-00 and pads K71-629-00. IIRC these are 6,000 lb. If you need any pic's or dimensions, I'll try to help.

I have gone thru a lot of brake system modifications and repairs, very long story and I have mentioned that I want to post about my .02$ that disc brake lag can and does exist, I have worked on mine to where I don't feel that I have ANY appreciable lag and my brakes are as strong as they need to be. Sorta wish a AS Guru could go for a test drive and comment. I will be posting soon hopefully with my video proof of my brake system performance, no it is not tire smoke related.

Also a clarification about the calipers, 4 pistons/caliper, fixed caliper position.

Gary

nickmeloy · 08-19-2012, 09:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GCinSC2

...
I will be posting soon hopefully with my video proof of my brake system performance, no it is not tire smoke related.
...

Gary

I am very interested in the modifications/refinements that you have made to your disc brake system. Please post them, or send me a PM.

**GCinSC2** · 08-19-2012, 12:35 PM

nickmeloy,

I just need to get a video on youtube and write up my .02$ worth. I want to be able to back it up and I hope the video will convey that visually. Something that I'd also like to share is a veteran AS'er perspective on my trailer braking.

Now what is my gmail password? I'll figure it out.

Gary