Disc vs hydraulic brakes on new 30' classic

[cosmotini]

Have you seen 2airs arse? NO WAY it's anecdotal!

[2airishuman]

as we say in the turtle club...

"you bet your sweet arse" i did !



actually this has happened several times...

and the locations have VERY special mile markers now...

cheers
2air'

[barts]

Originally Posted by 2airishuman

in fact stopping distance is SHORTER than for JUST the TOW VEHICLE alone in some cases (like a big ford truck)...

If the above is true, the brakes on the tow vehicle are badly in need of work, or the tow vehicle tires are poor compared to the trailer tires...
or perhaps the truck's rear suspension (or lack thereof) gets in the way of hard braking when empty....

Disks are great. But right now the reason they're great has more to do
with the design (and cost!) trade-offs rather than physics.

BTW, electro-hydraulic controllers are available for drum brakes as well; this is a nice way of converting hydraulic surge brake systems to electric control.

- Bart

[ROBERT CROSS]

Originally Posted by 2airishuman

as we say in the turtle club...

"you bet your sweet arse"

cheers
2air'

2...... they would insist on the proper spelling, you bet your donkey.

[4slice]

I have the Carlisle actuator, which has worked well for me for seven years now. I do notice some lag time (a rather significant two seconds or so) while the pump pressures up. I recently mentioned this to the hitch shop where I bought it from. The customer rep said that Carlisle has rectified the issue with newer models which now have a two stream electrical process--full amperage goes to the actuator to build pressure fast, while a solenoid valve reacts to the degree of braking called for by the controller.

I haven't confirmed for myself that this is accurate, but if it is, I wish it had been available when I shelled out the many sheckles for the previous model....

[2airishuman]

Originally Posted by barts

If the above is true, the brakes on the tow vehicle are...

this reads like u may be at a disadvantage in this exchange apparently having NOT read the trailer life article (or the others) on this issue.

or seen the test results and distances.

one could argue the tires/maintenance/load balance issues but none of those apply (imv) to the published info...

and in the case of these LARGE trucks (like mine) ...

a 7-10,000 lb truck with 4 discs brakes =< stopping power than 7-10,000 trailer with SIX disc brakes...

yes there may b differences in pincher size to consider.

but with older truck (that have DRUMS at the rear) even with properly maintained brakes...

adding a 4-7,000 lb trailer with 4 MORE discs=more pinchers=>stopping power...

folks towing with 'big red' type brakes (cayenne) have had to UPgrade their bambis to disc...

because the trailer could NOT be controlled in panic stops...

this was shown/demonstrated and CORRECTED (with discs) while running the porsche/bambi combo on the closed course track near j/c...

more pinchers is good!

cheers
2air'

[wheel interested]

Originally Posted by 2airishuman

i have been in SEVERAL situations on flat roads going the same speed as those around me OR going the speed limit...

and ALWAYS maintaining lots of distance between me and the driver ahead...

where THAT DRIVER decides to come to a FULL STOP (like a U turn on the interstate) without warning...

or some1 changes lanes DIRECTLY in front of me and stops/turns or has NO brake lights...

and evasive maneuvers are not available (cars on both sides)...

so that my ONLY option was to stand on the truck brakes with trailer in tow...

in those situations having 10 disc brakes saved my arse, truck and stream ...

even though everything in the trailer (and in my shorts) was REarranged.
_________

2air'

Me too! A teenie bopper cut me off and slowed down and I had to hit the brakes hard, everything went flying in the truck and Airstream and she looked back just in time to speed up with only a heartbeat between us. Without disc brakes I know we would have contacted each other.

Never had any trouble with them. I think they are well worth it. There have been some other hard stops and I have considered myself very fortunate to have the shorter stopping distance. How about this one...two lane highway, late night, driver passing another but cannot complete the pass, nor does the driver fall back, I get forced onto the shoulder.

[2airishuman]

Originally Posted by ROBERT CROSS

2...... they would insist on the proper spelling, you bet your donkey.

that would be a diabetic donkey, right?

proud member since ~1979

cheers
2air'

[slowmover]

Originally Posted by 2airishuman

another more complicated but no less REAL issue is towing with drums BEHIND modern vehicles...that have BIG POWERFUL disc brakes (cayenne, armanda, x5, m/g class merc')...because the MISMATCH between the trailer brake performance/characteristics and the TV... can and does cause problems.

i've seen this firsthand and talked with several 'streamers... who had issues when the trailer wasn't UP TO the TV in terms of braking performance...

Yup. No matter what I do to modify drums they STILL won't be a good match for the TV. I want the trailer to react to my inputs predictably, NOT questionably.

The mantra I learned was that being lane-centered was what mattered. Alpha & Omega. (A point of departure for thinking through scenarios). And it was dependent on steering control . . I don't want the brakes to have an effect on moving my centerline (due to plenty of reasons we could cite); I want them to do one job spectacularly well, and that only. Any changes in direction relative to travel need to be driver-initiated . . and the most powerful trailer brakes to minimize input time/force by the driver is conducive to that goal.

[ROBERT CROSS]

My experience only...

When we got the haha we also started using the Tru-control, the improvement in brake operation was stunning.

Do not underestimate the importance of a quality brake controller properly set-up.

[Inland RV Center, In]

Most everyone agrees that disc brakes that are working properly on the trailer, does indeed shorten the stopping distance of the tow vehicle, short of sliding the tires.

The positive cause of that improvement, is that the trailer brakes provide more stopping power than it needs for itself.

Even the old original Airstream Excella-Vac disc brakes easily performed the same task.

But, some still love electric brakes, feeling that they are satisfactory for their needs.

Some like satisfactory, many like outstanding.

Some still like stick shift instead of automatic.

As always, to each his own pleasures and expectations.

And so it is.

Andy

[ROBERT CROSS]

Rite on Andy.... I do expect many pleasures...

[rluhr]

Originally Posted by 4slice

I have the Carlisle actuator, which has worked well for me for seven years now. I do notice some lag time (a rather significant two seconds or so) while the pump pressures up.

I hear this complaint from time to time. Two seconds is far too long to be waiting for brakes, and the cause should be investigated. People often blame the actuator, but in my experience it's usually NOT the cause of the problem.

Two things to check:

1. Check for proper fluid level in the actuator's reservoir.

2. Bleed the brake lines. Tiny air bubbles in the lines are very common, and easily rectified by bleeding the brakes. Unfortunately, I've discovered that even certain Airstream service centers are not 100% reliable at bleeding the brakes properly during installation. You can do it yourself with a few minutes of instruction, an assistant, and a brake bleeder wrench.

[GCinSC]

Very interesting post series, especially for this Newbie.

I had no idea that my Actibrake was NLA, I'll be watching for members recommendations for replacement actuator sytems as this pogresses. Yes, I have only towed it once so far but the braking seemed confident, controlled and consistant. I do have the option of shifting down to lower gears, one of the pluses of manuals. I watched the installation DVD for the system and one big advantage is the power bleeding that the Actibrake offers. I get involved in other bleeding challanges, this one looked really simple.

The only thing I wondered about with my Actibrake is the delay on de-energization. It lasted just a split second or so, but you can feel the trailer still applied after releasing the foot brake.

Any comments?

Andy, I do like your quartet, are you the drummer, singer or a picker?

[Inland RV Center, In]

Originally Posted by GCinSC

Very interesting post series, especially for this Newbie.

I had no idea that my Actibrake was NLA, I'll be watching for members recommendations for replacement actuator sytems as this pogresses.

Any comments?

The Carlisle actuator seems to be the best available at this time.

I would suggest that you double check your brake controller for proper operation.

Andy, I do like your quartet, are you the drummer, singer or a picker?

None of the above.

Andy

[4slice]

Carlisle actuator lag time...

Rluhr, last summer the hitch shop (actually a spring/axle shop) flushed the entire system, put in new brake fluid and bled it. The lag was still present as before. I've gotten used to applying the hand controller two seconds before I anticipate having to use the brakes. That's okay for traffic lights, but not much help if a moose were to trot out of the ditch, at night, in the rain, on a mountain road....

[Inland RV Center, In]

Originally Posted by 4slice

Carlisle actuator lag time...

Rluhr, last summer the hitch shop (actually a spring/axle shop) flushed the entire system, put in new brake fluid and bled it. The lag was still present as before. I've gotten used to applying the hand controller two seconds before I anticipate having to use the brakes. That's okay for traffic lights, but not much help if a moose were to trot out of the ditch, at night, in the rain, on a mountain road....

If Actibrake was still in business, they would have offered some assistance to solve that delay problem.

In the meantime, your best bet would be to replace the actuating unit.

Better to be safe, than sorry.

Andy