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Old 09-27-2007, 11:45 AM   #29
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Wasn't there a brake comparison test done already and the resutls published? I seem to remember a photo sequence somewhere.
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Old 09-27-2007, 08:14 PM   #30
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Who would you suggest front those costs?

GM has a budget for research that probably equals Airstream annual income.

Andy

Andy----In post #21, the suggestion was made that disc brake marketing would be neat at the next international and asked for a show of hands.

I like the idea also. As one who will be at the next international in Boseman, I'd be very interested in seeing them demo'd as well as test drives. A test drive of a new truck and airstream is not as convincing in selling disc brake options on new orders or retrofits to older models at the AS factory, without a comparison drive that isolates the disc brake influence.
Otherwise, unless I happen to already drive the combination being offered for test drives, I wouldn't know what to attribute the differences between my combination and the one from AS.

Airstream fronts the costs associated with their marketing efforts. The international will have the largest audience of any single AS gathering and the physical plant to support it, so it's the best place to do this, if it's in the cards from Airstream's business plan perspective.
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Old 09-27-2007, 09:17 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobkelly
Andy----In post #21, the suggestion was made that disc brake marketing would be neat at the next international and asked for a show of hands.

I like the idea also. As one who will be at the next international in Boseman, I'd be very interested in seeing them demo'd as well as test drives. A test drive of a new truck and airstream is not as convincing in selling disc brake options on new orders or retrofits to older models at the AS factory, without a comparison drive that isolates the disc brake influence.
Otherwise, unless I happen to already drive the combination being offered for test drives, I wouldn't know what to attribute the differences between my combination and the one from AS.

Airstream fronts the costs associated with their marketing efforts. The international will have the largest audience of any single AS gathering and the physical plant to support it, so it's the best place to do this, if it's in the cards from Airstream's business plan perspective.
Hey Bob, I invite you to test tow my 5200lb Chelapi with 4 disc brakes, if you want.
NOTHING beats personal experience.
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Old 09-28-2007, 12:13 AM   #32
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Brake test

Hi, I for one would like to see a test compareing disc to drums on matching trailers useing the exact same tow vehicle to tow both trailers. It would need to be about three tests each. First test, 20 MPH to 0 MPH. Second test, 40 MPH to 0 MPH. Third and final test 60 MPH to 0 MPH.
Drum brakes work better than disc brakes at slower speeds and at colder temperatures. [lineing and surface temperatures] Disc brakes work better than drum brakes at higher speeds and higher temperatures. This is why many vehicles were built with disc up front and drums in back. I want to see actual documentation, not here say. [disc brakes better by 40-45-50% over drum brakes] As an old time hot rodder I heard a lot of B.S. but I always had my "Lion's Drag Strip" time ticket with me. "Documentation Please"
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Old 09-28-2007, 10:15 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by uwe
Wasn't there a brake comparison test done already and the resutls published? I seem to remember a photo sequence somewhere.
I think it might be an older test from the 70's, and a .pdf
One of the automotive Magazines published it.
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Old 09-28-2007, 10:31 AM   #34
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On the lighter side...

When I was out looking at new trucks recently, I asked the salesman if he knew where the connector for a brake controller was located. He asked me how big a trailer I was going to tow. I told him it was 25' and about 5200 pounds loaded. He then stated that I shouldn't need trailer brakes on a trailer that size with this truck.

At that point I called the sales manager over and told him I wanted a different salesman. I explained that the guy I was dealing with had no idea what he was talking about and if people listened to him they would be breaking the law and soon be dead.

I was assigned a new salesman and bought the truck. The break connector was right where he said it was.
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Old 09-28-2007, 04:46 PM   #35
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the testing/demos have ALREADY been done.

many times.

many published.

trailer life did this 2-3 years ago and the results were in the magazine.

the data clearly suggested the advantage of disc brakes.

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Old 09-28-2007, 07:06 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by ROBERTSUNRUS
Hi, I for one would like to see a test compareing disc to drums on matching trailers useing the exact same tow vehicle to tow both trailers. It would need to be about three tests each. First test, 20 MPH to 0 MPH. Second test, 40 MPH to 0 MPH. Third and final test 60 MPH to 0 MPH.
Drum brakes work better than disc brakes at slower speeds and at colder temperatures. [lineing and surface temperatures] Disc brakes work better than drum brakes at higher speeds and higher temperatures. This is why many vehicles were built with disc up front and drums in back. I want to see actual documentation, not here say. [disc brakes better by 40-45-50% over drum brakes] As an old time hot rodder I heard a lot of B.S. but I always had my "Lion's Drag Strip" time ticket with me. "Documentation Please"
Speaking of documentation, where did you get the info that said disc are only better at hi speeds and hi temps---not true !!!! also this has nothing to do with why disc we used on front and not rear-----the reason for only putting them on the front only was there is very little braking needed on the rear as most vehicle weight is transfered to the front wheels when stopping. Once manufactures had the ability to control breaking electronicly they put disc front and rear. Prior to this the only way to control rear wheel lock up was to use smaller less effecient drum brakes on the rear . Pieman
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Old 09-28-2007, 07:28 PM   #37
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i think the parking brake was a factor too. i'll never forget my first rear disc job ;-)
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Old 09-28-2007, 07:28 PM   #38
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This is why many vehicles were built with disc up front and drums in back. "
I gotta ask this. Why do my Mercury Marauder, Crown Vic Sport and F250 all have Discs on all four corners?
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Old 09-28-2007, 07:32 PM   #39
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i think the parking brake was a factor too. i'll never forget my first rear disc job ;-)
rick your right --that was a concideration --if truth be known the cost factor may have been it more than anything else. ---pieman
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Old 09-28-2007, 07:46 PM   #40
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I gotta ask this. Why do my Mercury Marauder, Crown Vic Sport and F250 all have Discs on all four corners?
With todays technology there have been lots of changes--electronic controls now monitor individual wheel rpm while breaking and accelerating. The are able to accurately apply or release brake application to individual wheels thus controling wheel spin {traction control} and wheel lock up {anti-lock}. Even tire inflation can be monitored by watching individual wheel rotation. None of this came overnight. When disc first came out like many things they we primitive compared to today. So to answer your question, they just didn't have the technology then that we have today. I would imagine 20 years from now what we see will be laughable too. ---pieman
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Old 09-29-2007, 12:09 AM   #41
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I gotta ask this. Why do my Mercury Marauder, Crown Vic Sport and F250 all have Discs on all four corners?
Hi, I said many vehicles, not all, have disc on front and drums on the rear. My Lincoln Navigator has disc on all four and my wife's BMW also has disc on all four. When American vehicles started useing disc brakes they were vertually all front disc and rear drum and later four wheel disc were reserved for the performance models. Our T-Bird SC had four discs and our T-Bird LX had front disc and rear drums.
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Old 09-29-2007, 12:31 AM   #42
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Speaking of documentation, where did you get the info that said disc are only better at hi speeds and hi temps---not true !!!! also this has nothing to do with why disc we used on front and not rear-----the reason for only putting them on the front only was there is very little braking needed on the rear as most vehicle weight is transfered to the front wheels when stopping. Once manufactures had the ability to control breaking electronicly they put disc front and rear. Prior to this the only way to control rear wheel lock up was to use smaller less effecient drum brakes on the rear . Pieman
Hi, I have had actual experience with the, then, brand new front disc brakes that Ford and Mercury put on some of their cars in the early 70's. Some of these cars were built without a vacuum booster and when the car was started cold, with the carburetor on the high idle cam, many a porter lost control of the car and crashed brand new cars on the lot because of the fact that the disc brakes needed to warmed up to be effective. On the other hand it is well known that drum brakes tend to be somewhat grabby when cold. Ford didn't put smaller drum brakes on the rear, they used an equalizer or a pressure regulator to control front to rear balance. At high speeds disc brakes can handle the heat better than drums which can easily fade out when over heated. My experience as a Ford dealer shop foreman now and a dealer mechanic since 1968 is where I'm comeing from.
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