disc vs drum brakes

[Inland RV Center, In]

Originally Posted by at_wanderer

I have been told I do not want disk brakes on my trailer because they are surge operated and a general headache when backing.
I took only a few minutes to look up Kodiak's brakes and it seems to me they are not surge actuated but electyric/hydraulic? Does that mean they have an electric pump for the hydraulic fluid that is controlled by the same type of brake controller as would be used on drums?
Sorry, I am uneducated on this as well as possibly confused.
Can someone help me out?

Unfortunately, some people offer information, meaning to be helpful, but, offer the wrong information.

Surge brakes are ok, but certainly not for travel trailers.

Electric brakes are ok for some owners too, and that is a choice that they wish to make.

Disc brakes, do require more of an investment. But disc brakes are not like the up and down stock markets.

We all have heard the saying, the difference is between day and night.

By industry standards, and from thousands of disc brake owners, disc brakes are definately "day."

Those same owners refere to electric brakes as "night," and a moonless one at that.

That is not to say that electric brakes are not safe, because they are safe. But disc brakes do offer much much more safety in braking.

Perhaps Airstream could provide a tow vehicle/trailer combo, with the trailer equipped with disc brakes, on a test drive basis, at the next international rally.

How many would like to see them do that?

Please let me know, and I will get together with Airstream powers that be, and see if it can be arranged.

I personally think it would be a heck of a thing for them to do, so that anyone that may be interested, could find out, first hand.

Andy

[Tin Diesel]

We have struggled almost since we got our 30' classic to get the drum brakes to not pull to one side. Had it in twice to a local RV shop - to no avail. Have spent hours adjusting the little star-shaped adjusters. Probably something in the wiring.

Let me tell ya... it ain't no fun driving up and down mountain passes in Colorado when you don't have confidence in your brakes!

We were going to do the disc-deed sometime this winter, but expedited the project when we found out our axles were shot... might as well do them together.

If you like the confidence that comes from numbers, its becoming so popular that we can't get them done at Roger Williams Airstream in TX until JANUARY! (its late September now - for future readers of this string).

Andy at Inland says I could do it myself, but the labor component of the overall cost isn't that bad - and I'd much rather have somebody who has done hundreds of these do mine for me.

If you want them, better get in line now (but you're gonna have to get behind me!)

If you want to know what they quoted me, PM me or email me.

[at_wanderer]

Thanks Andy, but I'm still in the dark on this. What operates the disk brakes? What kind of actuator applies the pressure?

[bobkelly]

Andy----If the marketing folks at AS are willing to support disc brake demo drives at Bozeman, great. At the same time, I'd like to see a direct comparison of stopping distances and vehicle/AS straight line stability between discs and drums . Something similar to what the auto marketing folks do. Hire an outside agency to supply two TV/AS rigs. The only difference would be one AS has disc, the other drum brakes. Professional drivers would stage the comparison demo. The fairgrounds at Bozeman could have the needed space for such an event. I've attended GM sponsored events at El Toro Marine Air Station in So Cal where professionally driven demos were combined with client drives.

[bobkelly]

Tin---When you talked with the folks at Roger Williams about discs, do they offer the complete line of Kodiak disc choices or just one package that pre-determines the corrosion protection level on the disc and attach hardware and the brake pad material?

[bobkelly]

AT----The AS disc brake operates just like the ones on your car. Hydraulic pressure forces the brake pads in the caliper to clamp the rotating disc. The hydraulic system is pressurized by an electric pump.

[Inland RV Center, In]

Originally Posted by at_wanderer

Thanks Andy, but I'm still in the dark on this. What operates the disk brakes? What kind of actuator applies the pressure?

An "actuator" powers the disc brakes.

A "brake controller" mounted in the tow vehicle, powers the actuator.

Caution must be used when purchasing both.

There are good actuators and there are problem actuators. Then there is the actuator manufacturer. There are very good ones, and then there are some that are not so good.

There are some brake controllers that work fine with electric brakes, but not so well with a disc brake actuator.

Andy

[Inland RV Center, In]

Originally Posted by bobkelly

Andy----If the marketing folks at AS are willing to support disc brake demo drives at Bozeman, great. At the same time, I'd like to see a direct comparison of stopping distances and vehicle/AS straight line stability between discs and drums . Something similar to what the auto marketing folks do. Hire an outside agency to supply two TV/AS rigs. The only difference would be one AS has disc, the other drum brakes. Professional drivers would stage the comparison demo. The fairgrounds at Bozeman could have the needed space for such an event. I've attended GM sponsored events at El Toro Marine Air Station in So Cal where professionally driven demos were combined with client drives.

Who would you suggest front those costs?

GM has a budget for research that probably equals Airstream annual income.

Andy

[uwe]

Wasn't there a brake comparison test done already and the resutls published? I seem to remember a photo sequence somewhere.

[bobkelly]

Originally Posted by Inland RV Center, In

Who would you suggest front those costs?

GM has a budget for research that probably equals Airstream annual income.

Andy

Andy----In post #21, the suggestion was made that disc brake marketing would be neat at the next international and asked for a show of hands.

I like the idea also. As one who will be at the next international in Boseman, I'd be very interested in seeing them demo'd as well as test drives. A test drive of a new truck and airstream is not as convincing in selling disc brake options on new orders or retrofits to older models at the AS factory, without a comparison drive that isolates the disc brake influence.
Otherwise, unless I happen to already drive the combination being offered for test drives, I wouldn't know what to attribute the differences between my combination and the one from AS.

Airstream fronts the costs associated with their marketing efforts. The international will have the largest audience of any single AS gathering and the physical plant to support it, so it's the best place to do this, if it's in the cards from Airstream's business plan perspective.

[uwe]

Originally Posted by bobkelly

Andy----In post #21, the suggestion was made that disc brake marketing would be neat at the next international and asked for a show of hands.

I like the idea also. As one who will be at the next international in Boseman, I'd be very interested in seeing them demo'd as well as test drives. A test drive of a new truck and airstream is not as convincing in selling disc brake options on new orders or retrofits to older models at the AS factory, without a comparison drive that isolates the disc brake influence.
Otherwise, unless I happen to already drive the combination being offered for test drives, I wouldn't know what to attribute the differences between my combination and the one from AS.

Airstream fronts the costs associated with their marketing efforts. The international will have the largest audience of any single AS gathering and the physical plant to support it, so it's the best place to do this, if it's in the cards from Airstream's business plan perspective.

Hey Bob, I invite you to test tow my 5200lb Chelapi with 4 disc brakes, if you want.
NOTHING beats personal experience.

[ROBERTSUNRUS]

Hi, I for one would like to see a test compareing disc to drums on matching trailers useing the exact same tow vehicle to tow both trailers. It would need to be about three tests each. First test, 20 MPH to 0 MPH. Second test, 40 MPH to 0 MPH. Third and final test 60 MPH to 0 MPH.
Drum brakes work better than disc brakes at slower speeds and at colder temperatures. [lineing and surface temperatures] Disc brakes work better than drum brakes at higher speeds and higher temperatures. This is why many vehicles were built with disc up front and drums in back. I want to see actual documentation, not here say. [disc brakes better by 40-45-50% over drum brakes] As an old time hot rodder I heard a lot of B.S. but I always had my "Lion's Drag Strip" time ticket with me. "Documentation Please"

[uwe]

Originally Posted by uwe

Wasn't there a brake comparison test done already and the resutls published? I seem to remember a photo sequence somewhere.

I think it might be an older test from the 70's, and a .pdf
One of the automotive Magazines published it.

[azflycaster]

On the lighter side...

When I was out looking at new trucks recently, I asked the salesman if he knew where the connector for a brake controller was located. He asked me how big a trailer I was going to tow. I told him it was 25' and about 5200 pounds loaded. He then stated that I shouldn't need trailer brakes on a trailer that size with this truck.

At that point I called the sales manager over and told him I wanted a different salesman. I explained that the guy I was dealing with had no idea what he was talking about and if people listened to him they would be breaking the law and soon be dead.

I was assigned a new salesman and bought the truck. The break connector was right where he said it was.

[2airishuman]

the testing/demos have ALREADY been done.

many times.

many published.

trailer life did this 2-3 years ago and the results were in the magazine.

the data clearly suggested the advantage of disc brakes.

cheers
2air'

[Mike Lewis]

Originally Posted by ROBERTSUNRUS

Hi, I for one would like to see a test compareing disc to drums on matching trailers useing the exact same tow vehicle to tow both trailers. It would need to be about three tests each. First test, 20 MPH to 0 MPH. Second test, 40 MPH to 0 MPH. Third and final test 60 MPH to 0 MPH.
Drum brakes work better than disc brakes at slower speeds and at colder temperatures. [lineing and surface temperatures] Disc brakes work better than drum brakes at higher speeds and higher temperatures. This is why many vehicles were built with disc up front and drums in back. I want to see actual documentation, not here say. [disc brakes better by 40-45-50% over drum brakes] As an old time hot rodder I heard a lot of B.S. but I always had my "Lion's Drag Strip" time ticket with me. "Documentation Please"

Speaking of documentation, where did you get the info that said disc are only better at hi speeds and hi temps---not true !!!! also this has nothing to do with why disc we used on front and not rear-----the reason for only putting them on the front only was there is very little braking needed on the rear as most vehicle weight is transfered to the front wheels when stopping. Once manufactures had the ability to control breaking electronicly they put disc front and rear. Prior to this the only way to control rear wheel lock up was to use smaller less effecient drum brakes on the rear . Pieman

[richinny]

i think the parking brake was a factor too. i'll never forget my first rear disc job ;-)

[Goin camping]

Originally Posted by ROBERTSUNRUS

This is why many vehicles were built with disc up front and drums in back. "

I gotta ask this. Why do my Mercury Marauder, Crown Vic Sport and F250 all have Discs on all four corners?

[Mike Lewis]

Originally Posted by richinny

i think the parking brake was a factor too. i'll never forget my first rear disc job ;-)

rick your right --that was a concideration --if truth be known the cost factor may have been it more than anything else. ---pieman

[Mike Lewis]

Originally Posted by Goin camping

I gotta ask this. Why do my Mercury Marauder, Crown Vic Sport and F250 all have Discs on all four corners?

With todays technology there have been lots of changes--electronic controls now monitor individual wheel rpm while breaking and accelerating. The are able to accurately apply or release brake application to individual wheels thus controling wheel spin {traction control} and wheel lock up {anti-lock}. Even tire inflation can be monitored by watching individual wheel rotation. None of this came overnight. When disc first came out like many things they we primitive compared to today. So to answer your question, they just didn't have the technology then that we have today. I would imagine 20 years from now what we see will be laughable too. ---pieman