Disc vs Drum Brakes?

[TomW]

This month's (August, 2005) issue of TrailerLife Magazine has a good article on brake controller and disk brake compatibility.

Tom

[route66]

.................Maybe this is a personal question , but I'd be interested in the Actual cost of the Kodiak disc brake conversion kit for any 2 or 3 axle trailer and then the labor cost to install ?? Would really help in making budget choices and I'm sure that Dexter has the same parts available to make a conversion as well . thanks , r66

[Tin Hut]

Originally Posted by route66

.................Maybe this is a personal question , but I'd be interested in the Actual cost of the Kodiak disc brake conversion kit for any 2 or 3 axle trailer and then the labor cost to install ?? Would really help in making budget choices and I'm sure that Dexter has the same parts available to make a conversion as well . thanks , r66

Roger Williams Airsteam in your home town Weatherford could give you a quote. Call and ask for David Tidmore. Good luck on your search.

[route66]

................Thanks . I found the TL article and it quoted an installed price of $2150 . A three axle trailer would obviously be more equipment and more labor probably close to 3k or so . thanks , r66

[Minnie's Mate]

The price I was asking for was for a factory installation not a retrofit of a new coach. Has anyone purchased a new coach with the factory installed upgrade. It is my understanding that Airstream offers disc brakes as a standard upgrade on all of their coaches and as standard equipment on the Classics.

I, too, read the Trailer Life article on disc brakes and compatibility of trailer brake controlers. I have an '05 F-250 with the factory installed trailer brake controler and tow/haul package and according to the chart it is compatible with all of the disc brake systems except one...and that is probably the one that Airstream uses as the factory installed system. However, according to the notes that system is being upgraded to be compatible with the Ford system.

Does anybody know who makes the system that Airstream installs at the factory. Kodiak wasn't listed in the chart so I assume that Kodiak is the brand name and not the manufacturer's name.

[2airishuman]

minnie

here's a link regarding the tow command and disc brakes.....read in your f250's owners manual for the exact reference.

http://www.airforums.com/forum...3&page=1&pp=20

anyway my tube was one of the early classics with the disc upgrade....maybe the first tri axle since it was built in march and my order was placed the first week the option was made available in early february. i've towed several thousand miles with the system now and it's great. the disc brakes have performed very well without any adjustments to the brake controller after the initial setup. no true emergency/panic stops (thank goodness) but i have made some "urgent" stops and the truck stops better with the trailer in tow than without.

i'll be at the factory in 2 weeks for some minor coach repairs and will have the hubs/bearings/brakes inspected while there.....i'm curious to know if the brake pads will wear more on the front than the 2nd/3rd axle....or uniformly.

for anyone considering the disc option.....if you can afford it go for it.....if you can't afford it......skip the stereo/entertainment option and get the discs.

having said that, the drum brake airstreams have stopped reliably for many years....so i'm not sure i'd pay for a retro fit on a newer coach....unless already needing some replacement brake bits.

i'm sure any dealer can tell you what the price is.....it should be printed on the 2006 order sheet.....i'd guess it's 2500-3500 and worth every penny.

cheers
2air'

[axleman]

Originally Posted by Minnie's Mate

Does anybody know who makes the system that Airstream installs at the factory. Kodiak wasn't listed in the chart so I assume that Kodiak is the brand name and not the manufacturer's name.

Minnie’s Mate,



Kodiak ™ is manufactured by Kodiak Trailer Components. They will provide the rotors, calipers, etc…



The Actibrake electric/hydraulic actuator is manufactured by Active Technologies ™.



I hope this helps.



Regards,

Henry

[Boondocker]

Is the disk brake upgrade a reasonable do it yourself project or is it best to hire it out? (assuming average skills)

Rodney

[Dwight]

If you have average mechanical skills, you can do it yourself. If you pack your own wheel bearings, you can probably do it. The routing of the brake lines is the time consuming part. The retail parts run around $1200 for a triple axle.

[axleman]

Rodney,



I agree – running the brake line is the most time consuming part . We converted our shop trailer to Kodiak disc’s a year or so back. I love my maintenance man but I would have to consider him average in the “mechanical ability” area . Two axles plus the complete install took around 6 hours. Our driver said he needs an extra hand so that he can give it the much deserved “three thumbs up” !



Regards,

Henry

[dtbw]

A/S uses the Kodiak brakes and the ActiBrake acutator. Kodiak IS the manufacturer of the brakes. They use widely available GM disc pads and are a very robust design. A/S uses the e-coated brakes, while we install the silver cadmium plate for better corrosion protection, but all the internal moving parts of the Kodiak system are stainless steel.

A/S made disc brakes standard on ALL classic starting in February of 2005. A/S will retrofit virtually any trailer with the disc system at the repair center, BUT they will NOT install them as a factory option on the Safari or International models at ANY price. I talked to A/S just yesterday on the matter as I was ordering a unit for a customer and he wanted the disc brakes. A/S is simply not offering them except as a retrofit. So if you want them on a new Safari or International, either your dealer will have to do it (there is more to it than meets the eye and quite a few places to make mistakes that can come back to bite) or you will have to haul your A/S back to JC and have them do it. I asked it could be done after production but while it was still in JC and the answer was NO. A/S has no way to bill a dealer for work done in the repair shop which is where the retrofits are accomplished, only end customers. I know it sounds silly, but that it they way it is.

I will also warn anyone thinking about a DIY project that the actuator is a pretty touchy beast. It requires rigor be maintained regarding the wiring and especially the ground, including that in the tow vehicle. If a person is knowledgable and understands what is required and ensures that everything is upto snuff, then he/she should be okay, but UNDERSTAND that the result of not having the wiring absolutely perfect in all respects can result in intermittent brakes or no brakes. Disc brakes while excellent (yes I have them on my personal A/S), are more complicated as you are dealing with high pressure hydraulics and a sensitive microprocessor-based actuator. At this point in the rollout, I would advise that this job is best left to A/S or a qualified dealer.

David R Tidmore
GM Roger Williams Airstream
Weatherford, TX

[Uflyups]

Do A/S dealers always use the Actibrake system on their retro fit of drum to disk brake systems?

[2airishuman]

Originally Posted by Uflyups

Do A/S dealers always use the Actibrake system on their retro fit of drum to disk brake systems?

hi uflyups

welcome to the forums!

the a/s assembly line uses dexters gear on new builds now.

while the factory service center uses kodiac with actibrake for retro fits...

most dealers that do this conversion get the bits from the factory and use the same stuff.

there are other options,

dexters can be retro fit too.

there are all full stainless steel setups (used on boat trailers) that will work.

actibrake makes the controller board/fluid reservoir and so on, but there are other vendors for this gear too.

what do you have in mind?
diy or dealer? which one?

tell us more!

also there are more recent threads on this topic. (but david tidmore's posts are very very informative)

cheers
2air'

[nickcrowhurst]

The general feel of this thread has been very supportive of the use of disc brakes on our Airstreams. This sort of conversion would, initially, be very attractive to me. I admire skilled engineering, I believe in "you'll remember the quality long after you've forgotten the cost", and I can afford the conversion. However, (you just knew that word was coming.....) I have a couple of doubts:

1. Complexity generally leads to unreliability. Trailers are often left for long periods in damp corrosive atmospheres. Microprocessors and sensitive grounds can be troublesome in such conditions.

2. As I spend half the year in the USA, and half in the UK, I leave a motor vehicle unused in each continent for about 6 months. This is a typical period of non-use for many trailers during the winter. The greatest problem I have with leaving motor vehicles unused is seizing up of the hydraulic brake slave cylinders through lack of use, even with regular changes of brake fluid. I also leave unset the emergency (parking) brake. I do not wish to create similar problems with my Airstream.

3. For the past 7 years the electric brakes have performed normally after having been left for 8 months.

4. Discs create extra maintenance in changing brake fluid, and checking fluid level, and having to carry spare brake fluid.

5. Discs can create extra maintenance through leaks in seals in hydraulic cylinders.

These considerations lead me to avoid the disc conversion, but, on the other hand, I have only ever towed in the east, and I want the ability to cross the mountains with minimum brake fade in future years. Furthermore, I would appreciate the ability to adjust the my Jordan brake controller so that the brakes lock on braking, and then re-adjust to avoid this. That procedure would reassure me that I had adequate braking. I am unable to lock the brakes on my Excella, but Walt, of Walt's RV, Ocala, assured me that this was normal with a two axle Excella.

So, I'm still pondering the issue.

Nick.

[Pick]

I agree with Nick. For the simplicity and economy of electric drum brakes, they cannot be beat. Those disc brake systems can be really complicated to maintain and troubleshoot if there is a problem.

After seeing what "catsandi" went through with her disc brakes, I want no part of them.

[uwe]

Originally Posted by uwe

I installed disc brakes on my 1963 Overlander, and the stock steel wheels from my 1971 Airstream fit fine, no rubbing. I am, however, running Dexter's disc brake setup, not Kodiak. I am not sure if the interference is the same Dexter vs. Kodiak.
I have no practical experience yet, since I have not towed the beast yet. Can't wait to give it a test, though.

Wow, how time flies...
Having towed my 5200lb Overlander now for many many miles, I must say that I would NEVER go back to electric drums. Not while sober or in control of my actions, anyways. The maintenance is very easy - just pump some fresh brake fluid through the lines once a year, and flashlight all the junctions while you're at it. It takes about 2 hours, start to finish. My system is self installed, with new axles at the time. The brake sensitivity, and lack of fade or any other sign of brake trouble is simply stunning. This is especially true once one tows with a tow vehicle that has little reserves in capacity, such as my Suburban 1500.
I can descent very long and steep grades with applying the trailer brakes only, never even touch the truck's brake pedal and there simply is NO FADE, whatsoever.
The concerns of electrical problems possibly disabling the brakes applies the same as it would to electric drums, btw. The actuator lives in the interior space, well protected from moisture and atmospheric influences. Much like my TV, amp, radio etc.
Yes, trailers need maintenance, and yes, the hydraulic discs add a little to that. But, having towed similar trailers ( one with electric drums, one with hydraulic discs) the end result is just so much better that the little bit of extra cost and maintenance in the long run does not bother me.

[thecatsandi]

I did have some troubles with my brakes after the having my trailer repaired at the factory. THey had the batteries disconnected for several weeks. The brake computer in the actibrake unit reset. Unknown to me the purchasing dealer synced the brakes for me. I was un-aware of this process until Sanders finally figured it out.
That has been my only problem with my brakes and I LOVE the discs stopping power. This is good because I spend a lot of time in the mountains out west.

[wheel interested]

Ah yes stopping is a great feature in brakes and the disc brakes shorten stopping distances considerably! That I like.

[47WeeWind]

Hey Carol: Has Rosie been updated, like Betty Crocker is every decade or two?

[wheel interested]

LOL! Wish i could get that update!!!! The beauty of internet.