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Old 03-12-2005, 02:57 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markdoane
Craig,

I don't think you looked at the Brakesmart controller either. It's not the same as the old Kelsey Hayes controllers (yeah, I had one).

This is 'new technology'. I don't think it's illegal.
Mark,
I've looked at the advertisements and the installation instructions of the new units. While you might have been pointing out to Andy that the new technology allows for less to go wrong with the extra plumbing, I was just mentioning that improper installation could cause either system to let you down. I'm just curious how many accident claims Caravanner Insurance or Andy ever investigated where leaks from that old system were the cause?
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Old 03-12-2005, 03:34 PM   #16
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Craig,

My experience with the old Kelsey Hayes brake controllers was that they had a built in failure mode detector.

When they leak you know about it immediately, because your left knee is wet from leaking brake fluid. If you don't fix it immediately, your shoe fills up with brake fluid and you make a squishing sound when you walk.
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Old 03-12-2005, 03:47 PM   #17
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The new Hensley dosen't require you to tap into the brake line. A friend has one and likes it but the cost is $500.00 Canadian. Marvin
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Old 03-12-2005, 05:33 PM   #18
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The only info I can find on the Hensley "Tru-Control" brake controller is that it was a private label Brakesmart, made for Hensley. One guy didn't like the orange color, made to match the Hensley hitch.

The cost is VERY high for a Brakesmart, I think around $350 USD.
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Old 03-12-2005, 08:40 PM   #19
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The 1990 installation manual for my "old" Kelsey Hayes hydraulic/electric brake controller states that "All Kelsey hydraulic actuated electric brakes controllers require less than .02 cubic inches (0.3 cubic centimeters) of fluid from the master cylinder. The actuating cylinder is rated for 5000 psi." Also that it is compatable with anti-lock brakes on trucks and vans, and gives a T fitting chart for 1990 and older vehicles.

This was less than 16 years ago. I wonder if K-H was unaware that it had been illegal to install their controllers for over 14 years when they printed these instructions.

Neal
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Old 03-12-2005, 09:01 PM   #20
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Keep in mind that the early Kelsey-Hayes controllers required a sizeable amount of brake fluid. While I have no idea of the actual volume, it was enough to physically move the lever on the controller. The lever, in turn, would actuate the brakes.

I feel quite certain that later-day controllers that tap into the hydraulics are exactly like Don in Minnetonka outlined.

But it sure was cool in the old days watching the lever move in proportion to how hard the brake pedal was pushed.

Tom
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Old 03-12-2005, 09:17 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markdoane
Craig,

My experience with the old Kelsey Hayes brake controllers was that they had a built in failure mode detector.

When they leak you know about it immediately, because your left knee is wet from leaking brake fluid. If you don't fix it immediately, your shoe fills up with brake fluid and you make a squishing sound when you walk.
Darned effective alarm system wasn't it? LMFAO
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Old 03-12-2005, 09:25 PM   #22
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Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by uncleneal
The 1990 installation manual for my "old" Kelsey Hayes hydraulic/electric brake controller states that "All Kelsey hydraulic actuated electric brakes controllers require less than .02 cubic inches (0.3 cubic centimeters) of fluid from the master cylinder. The actuating cylinder is rated for 5000 psi." Also that it is compatable with anti-lock brakes on trucks and vans, and gives a T fitting chart for 1990 and older vehicles.

This was less than 16 years ago. I wonder if K-H was unaware that it had been illegal to install their controllers for over 14 years when they printed these instructions.

Neal
We all have to remember what state Andy has his business in. No dastardly black assault rifles, no driving an RV without a special license, no driving the Motorhome off the interstate in some locales and probably no picking your nose in public if the "powers that be" have their way. Kalifornia has a strange way at looking at liability.
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Old 03-13-2005, 12:46 PM   #23
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Tapping into any hydraulic brake line is also "not recommended" by all of the auto manufacturers that install ABS braking systems.

They say, that it will interfer with the proper brake operation.

We had one customer, that confirmed that they voided his brake warranty.

Andy
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Old 03-13-2005, 03:32 PM   #24
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Andy,

If you're referring to the old Kelsey Hayes brake controllers, that may be true. I don't think it's true for the newer models.

The Magnuson-Moss act protects consumers from having their warranties "voided", unless the product is proven to be the direct cause of the failure. The add-on device must also be explicitly prohibited in the owners manual.

Regardless, it is very "common", for dealers to void warranties, just to improve their profits. They make more money off of "you", than they do off the "manufacturer"
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Old 03-13-2005, 03:57 PM   #25
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ABS braking systems are fantastic.

My life depended on it, and it came through, otherwise I would have simply slid into a wreck.

Why oh why the, would anyone want to tinker with that system, that could render it useless.

But on the other hand, some will, simply because it's there.

Not me, as a pilot, a believe and promote "maximum" safety.

If someone wants to live on the edge, or lean way over it, that is certain their freedom of choice.

Andy
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Old 03-13-2005, 04:53 PM   #26
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. . . . . Why oh why the, would anyone want to tinker with that system, that could render it useless.

But on the other hand, some will, simply because it's there. . . . .

Andy
Andy,

I don't think the idea is to render it useless. And certainly no-one would do it 'simply because it's there'.

Would you even consider that there's more than just "your way, or the highway". It seems to me a lot of people have tried this system and found it to be safer/quicker/more responsive than the inertial system.

Is it just possible the Brakesmart system is safer? Or is that not even worth your consideration.
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Old 03-13-2005, 05:42 PM   #27
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It was my understanding Airstream was to start puting disc brakes on all "Classic" models begining Feb1/05. We had a 25' Classic in transit when I got this info. after the feb date. Wondering if ours would have the new system I called the factory. Was told they were on hold for 6-8 weeks. Also the suggested list for ours was $59.995, I notice they are now $59,000 plus--suppose this reflects the cost of the new system.
Pieman
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Old 03-13-2005, 08:03 PM   #28
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LeeC, you are right. I was thinking, that it did not take any extra fluid to operate, it just has a sensor in the line. Marvin
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