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Old 12-01-2014, 10:12 PM   #57
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Disc brake discussion

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Originally Posted by GCinSC2 View Post
J. Morgan,



I'm not trying to convince anyone to install EOH, only really want to help anyone explore getting the most out of their EOH system but ain't nobody gonna convince me to convert to magnetic brakes.

Where did you see me say that a conversion to magnetic brakes is something anyone should do?

I simply stated that electric brakes are more than adequate for a trailer like an Airstream.

I like Disk trailer brakes. I bought my first trailer equipped with disk hydraulic brakes in 1990. This trailer when purchased used vacuum/hydraulic control which I later changed to elec/hyd.

In the years since I have purchased over a dozen other trailers with disk brakes, and some with drum. The ones I have bought are great systems, I like them a lot, but their are still places where electric brakes work fine.

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Old 12-01-2014, 10:14 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by dznf0g View Post
Nev-r adjust certainly reduces maintenance...in theory. Really, not too many folks in RV land have them. The problem then becomes lack of inspection and cleaning. One advantage of discs are the fact that they are self-cleaning, or shed their brake dust. Drums capture and hold brake dust---all over the backing plate, etc.
Nev-r adjust electric brakes are far superior to those that must be adjusted.

Regular electric brakes should be adjusted about every 2,000 (two thousand) miles, to keep them at their maximum braking power.

All that's needed to keep the nev-r adjust electric brakes at maximum braking power, is back up the trailer a few feet every 1000 to 2000 miles.

Yes, they cost a few bucks more, but they do indeed satisfy the brain far more than regular electric brakes.

Unfortunately, most owners with standard electric brakes, do not have a clue that they should be frequently adjusted, to provide maximum braking power. Most owners wait until the magnets need replacing at 25,000 to 30,000 miles or less, and then most shops would still not adjust the brakes, because if you ask them how, they will hym and haw about the correct procedure.

Therefore, installing the seld adjust electric brakes, pays many many dividends.

Then of course, as this thread had talked about, we have disc brakes. Some opinions disagree that they are superior, but the cold and hot facts are that they are superior in every way, than electric brakes, self adjusting or not.

If they were not superior, then why do most cars and small trucks today have them???

The discs are cheaper to maintain than electric could ever be.

Disc's do not fade, as electric brakes do.

The only large difference in price, is the cost of the disc actuator.

Yes there are some good disc systems and some that are just fair. A reputable Airstream parts dealers, most always strive for the best. Yes there are a couple of new dealers, that are basically mindful of the customers pocket book, as opposed to top performance of the parts they sell.

A dealers reputation, when it comes to things like disc brakes, is something that each potential buyer should consider.

No dealer is perfect, but there are a few that constantly strive to be "top notch".

We feel that potential upgrades to disc brake buyers, should carefully do some home work, to assure themselves that they are making the correct decision, as best they can.

Price alone, is not the only consideration to make.

Be happy and always strive for the maximum in safety.

Safety is cheap, when the negative alternative happens.

A well informed Airstream or Argosy owner, will always be at the top of the "big smiles list".

Time after time, that has been proven to those "smiliers".



Andy
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Old 12-01-2014, 10:19 PM   #59
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Hi, if you want your trailer to stop every time, keep the drum brakes. If you want your trailer to stop better, when they work, change to disc brakes. If, and when, they make disc brakes that work as well as my Lincoln Navigator brakes, or any other automotive brakes, I might consider them. Right now disc brakes on Airstream trailers are a Mickey Mouse, Hong Kong, after market nightmare. And many comments on this thread prove it.
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Old 12-01-2014, 10:32 PM   #60
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The trailers I have primarily use 10,000 pound Dexter axles with disk brakes, they have been very reliable, especially once I switched to Dexter actuators.

The primary issue I have had is that two 30 amp circuits are required to reliably operate the actuator, one from the battery, and one through the brake controller.

Most of my road failures have been because of a failure of one or the other of these circuits.

The wheel units have been perfect. I have never had to replace a rotor and ALL of my brake pads have lasted for over ten years.

If AS cant do this with their systems, (or aftermarket) then they suck, and they aren't trying hard enough.


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Old 12-01-2014, 11:43 PM   #61
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We have Kodiak calipers and a Carlisle actuator on our 1971 dual axle Tradewind. This has worked beautifully from the day I installed everything as part of an axle swap. We use Michelin radials and the stopping performance is excellent. The only problem is that we don't always get stuff stowed in the trailer well enough to keep it in place under emergency braking.

One trick for bleeding is a remote switch to turn on the actuator while under the trailer; this lets one do the bleeding w/o an assistant. Frequent refilling of the actuator is required, however; perhaps i'll rig an IV-style fill for that purpose the next time I do this.

I do wish I could find a brake controller that was like the Max-Brake, though; having trailer brakes be proportional to truck braking would seem to be ideal. W/modern trucks having integral controllers, the market for sophisticated add-on controllers is disappearing.

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Old 12-02-2014, 05:32 AM   #62
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Does anyone know if the Dexter actuators incorporate a residual valve?

Judging from the way the sound and work from start-up, they do not.
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Old 12-02-2014, 07:46 AM   #63
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Does anyone know if the Dexter actuators incorporate a residual valve?

Judging from the way the sound and work from start-up, they do not.
If you mean a high pressure accumulator, I don't think so. Neither I nor the Tuson Engineer are aware of any trailer actuators which utilize an accumulator.
That would, IMO, solve many issues with delay.
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Old 12-02-2014, 07:56 AM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barts View Post
We have Kodiak calipers and a Carlisle actuator on our 1971 dual axle Tradewind. This has worked beautifully from the day I installed everything as part of an axle swap. We use Michelin radials and the stopping performance is excellent. The only problem is that we don't always get stuff stowed in the trailer well enough to keep it in place under emergency braking.

One trick for bleeding is a remote switch to turn on the actuator while under the trailer; this lets one do the bleeding w/o an assistant. Frequent refilling of the actuator is required, however; perhaps i'll rig an IV-style fill for that purpose the next time I do this.

I do wish I could find a brake controller that was like the Max-Brake, though; having trailer brakes be proportional to truck braking would seem to be ideal. W/modern trucks having integral controllers, the market for sophisticated add-on controllers is disappearing.

- Bart
Bart, the Direclink does monitor, and act upon, the OBDII data stream. Although the Tuson Engineer would not delve deeply into their proprietary programming, he has hinted that the TV brake line pressure is part of that programming. So, apparently, although it does not tap into the hydraulic line, (which makes me nervous anyway, as a mfr rep) it gets and acts upon that info. I can't say it for sure, but I do know the Direclink feels much better than any other controller I have used. I have not experienced the MaxBrake, but understand it performed very well.
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Old 12-02-2014, 08:07 AM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J. Morgan View Post
The trailers I have primarily use 10,000 pound Dexter axles with disk brakes, they have been very reliable, especially once I switched to Dexter actuators.

The primary issue I have had is that two 30 amp circuits are required to reliably operate the actuator, one from the battery, and one through the brake controller.

Most of my road failures have been because of a failure of one or the other of these circuits.

The wheel units have been perfect. I have never had to replace a rotor and ALL of my brake pads have lasted for over ten years.

If AS cant do this with their systems, (or aftermarket) then they suck, and they aren't trying hard enough.


1/2 Ton 4WD Truck, 72 Sovereign Hensley Arrow
I, likewise, have had zero issues....lucky???? My Actibrake was not one of the recalled units, and works perfectly....but for how long? My rubber lines are plenty long enough with no kinking. They did contact the frame though, so I wrapped them with fuel line as an isolator. I have had no caliper performance issues and my rotors look virtually new, with no groves in them even.
My interaction with the Direclink Engineer was to inquire about application lag, and see if that was something they address with their actuator. My initial contact was to inquire about re-programming mine to an "NE" model, so I could be ready for an easy replacement with their actuator when the time comes, maybe ABS and Sway control as well. (haven't decided on that yet..$$$$$).

This led to over 20 emails and several phone conversations about future product enhancements, and performance algorithm tweaks. I found this company to be VERY interested in customer feedback, and several of the items, like a screen color change to accommodate sunglasses wearers (particularly polorized), putting screen brightness controls on the main screen, and some others are already being worked on for next gen product.

I like companies that are interested and spend time with customers and really listen.
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Old 12-02-2014, 08:43 AM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dznf0g View Post
If you mean a high pressure accumulator, I don't think so. Neither I nor the Tuson Engineer are aware of any trailer actuators which utilize an accumulator.
That would, IMO, solve many issues with delay.
Back when I was building street rods, we always used what we called and was marketed as a "residual valve" in the brake line between the master cylinder and the system. We used a 10lb on the rear if it had drums, and a 5lb on the front for discs. It was a small, 3/16" in line unit, just a little larger than a union, and they would give you a much firmer and better feeling brake pedal, eliminating the feeling that you needed to pump the brakes.

I'm thinking one of these 5lb "residual valves" might reduce the delay.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/wi...3278/overview/
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Old 12-02-2014, 09:26 AM   #67
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You might be on to something Steve.

In building cars it was kind of a rule that cars with low mounted master cylinders, like street rods with the master cylinder under the floorboard, that the caliper pistons would tend to retract too much when the fluid was pushed back in the MC.

If memory serves me, in these cases, where the MC was low mounted, I would use a 5 or 10 psi RPV on drums, and a 2 psi RPV on disk.


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Old 12-02-2014, 09:55 AM   #68
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Mount the pump higher?
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Old 12-02-2014, 11:03 AM   #69
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Mount the pump higher?
My pump is mounted alongside the storage box behind the propane tanks. The line goes out of the pump just about dead level along the belly pan. When I was bleeding the brakes, I first raised the tongue high so that any bubbles would tend to come back into the reservoir, then lowered the tongue to help urge any bubbles back toward the calipers. One bleeding did a good job of eliminating lag.
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Old 12-02-2014, 11:17 AM   #70
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Mount the pump higher?
Doug,

My pump is mounted where the factory mounted it in the storage box behind the propane bottles, or where the batteries are mounted in some models. I suppose it could be moved but it would really be vulnerable to damage in most any other location.
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