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Old 12-01-2014, 06:15 PM   #43
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Electric drums are on trailers because they satisfy the law requirement and they are cheap.

However, I'm not at all satisfied with by E/H drums either.
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Old 12-01-2014, 06:20 PM   #44
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How much more stopping can a brake accomplish beyond providing enough stopping power to lock the wheel?

Like I say, disk hyd are best, but s for me, well maintained electrics are more than adequate.


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Old 12-01-2014, 06:30 PM   #45
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I'm not dissatisfied because of the stopping power, it's great.

I'm dissatisfied with the delay, and the two failures I've already had in one year.
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Old 12-01-2014, 06:31 PM   #46
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How much more stopping can a brake accomplish beyond providing enough stopping power to lock the wheel?

Like I say, disk hyd are best, but s for me, well maintained electrics are more than adequate.


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None, but that's not my point. Drums are more likely to individually prematurely lock up and more prone to individually not function without more frequent maintenance and repair, which we all accept as normal for the animal. We don't accept it on E/H because we expect them to behave and have low maintenance like our cars.
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Old 12-01-2014, 06:45 PM   #47
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Folks,

Interesting discussions. I did my own hose reconfig and bled my brakes several times as my repairs evolved and alignment of the planets moved in and out of phase.

My only experience is with the 4 piston Dexter calipers.

I don't think Dexter is to blame for the bleeding issues, Airstream attached with a flare fitting hose that really does not have easy provisions for bleeding, attached thread has before and after pics of my old hose vs. my combo line of hose and steel line that allowed pretty easy inboard bleeding of the 4 calipers which I see as critical to having any reliable chance of bleeding the system which is an absolute factor to any delay discussion.

As I have no experience with standard electrical brakes, can't make any comparisons.

Just as a sidebar to EOH I have to back down a hill in my yard to park my trailer. Very slow, blind side thru some trees into a carport. It requires a lot of braking modulation. The MaxBrake actually increases or decreases the system PSI just off of my trucks brake system pressure, you hear the load on the actuator.

This has a short video clip and pictures of my rework and my commentary.

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f439...ime-96724.html

I feel my rig's brakes are unified and much more than adequate and since my last efforts are untouched for any rework.

I'm not trying to convince anyone to change, but if you have EOH and feel you have an unacceptable delay, I bet it can be fixed.

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Old 12-01-2014, 07:02 PM   #48
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I've read that one of the reasons we didn't have disc in the 1970s was that Airstream held up development through patent monopolization (wrong terminology perhaps). There isn't any questions as to superiority. Electric drums are out of adjustment ten minutes down the road from service and are thoroughly inadequate for repeated stops.

So the delays and tech problems of discs are understandably a barrier for most. But this changed with the TUSON anti-lock module. Now there is no good reason to avoid disc any longer.

Gary's thread is excellent. And there some other threads on here about antilock and discs. So, too, the TUSON antisway module.

Better tires are the right step as are better brakes.
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Old 12-01-2014, 07:13 PM   #49
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I don't think that properly working drums are really more prone to lock up.

In my experience most lockups occur when moving at low speed in a turn when a motion actuated brake controller is caught "off guard". This happens about equally with elec or elec/hyd.

There is no real delay with my electric brakes, and whatever tiny delay there might be is equal whether elec or elec/hyd.


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Old 12-01-2014, 07:20 PM   #50
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Disc brake discussion

One reason for some people to avoid disk/hyd brakes is cost.

My brake adjustment lasts 3,000 miles easy, every time.

While it can be argued that electric trailer brakes are "old technology", so are bumper mount trailers.

As I said above, Hyd disk brakes are great, but elec drums work well. I never worry about them any more than I would hyd brakes.

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Old 12-01-2014, 07:24 PM   #51
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Gary, I recall us having some discussion (I think) while you were working your analysis. I do think there is one issue that is a Dexter design issue. A bleed point in a any caliper must be at the highest installed point in the fluid cavity in order for air to accumulate there and be readily pushed out. On the inboard caliper, I ASSUME the line is the highest point. But using the same orifice to admit high pressure fluid and remove air is problematic. If you crack the line as you would with a bleeder, the extremely fast inrush of fluid under pressure will break up the air bubble into many many small bubbles and distribute them throughout the fluid cavity.

I have tried, as I stated above, to loosen the line barely (at a weep volume) to hopefully keep the air bubble at the line port and have a better chance of pushing it out.

There needs to be a bleed point, higher than the line inlet, located away from the line inlet on the inboard caliper half....OR the cross over line should be on the top of the caliper, not the bottom.
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Old 12-01-2014, 08:03 PM   #52
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Rich,

Agreed, in a perfect world the inboard caliper half would have an independent bleed screw. Then Dexter would have to make sure the inboard caliper half gets the bleed screw.

OR a hose fitting design than Incorporated a bleed port somehow.

On a professional basis, I deal with air bubbles in small displacement clutch hydraulic release systems throughout the day helping our customers troubleshoot their systems, tiny air bubbles = big problems.

J. Morgan,

I'm not trying to convince anyone to install EOH, only really want to help anyone explore getting the most out of their EOH system but ain't nobody gonna convince me to convert to magnetic brakes. And having a pressure transducer based controller is just icing on the cake to controlling 16 pistons.
I had a non-compatible EOH installed by my dealer and backing down my hill it was pretty much all or nothing cause the hill was messing with it in addition to being non-compatible with EOH.
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Old 12-01-2014, 08:14 PM   #53
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None, but that's not my point. Drums are more likely to individually prematurely lock up and more prone to individually not function without more frequent maintenance and repair, which we all accept as normal for the animal. We don't accept it on E/H because we expect them to behave and have low maintenance like our cars.
What's the frequent maintenance and repair? Maybe, mine are neglected, because I don't do any. I have Nev-R-Adjust brakes and Nev-R-Lube hubs. What else is there?

Ken
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Old 12-01-2014, 09:07 PM   #54
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The late 1970's trailers did have disc brakes, but only in the longer, ie 31 foot trailers. They were vacuum operated from the engine.

Bill


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I've read that one of the reasons we didn't have disc in the 1970s was that Airstream held up development through patent monopolization (wrong terminology perhaps). There isn't any questions as to superiority. Electric drums are out of adjustment ten minutes down the road from service and are thoroughly inadequate for repeated stops.

So the delays and tech problems of discs are understandably a barrier for most. But this changed with the TUSON anti-lock module. Now there is no good reason to avoid disc any longer.

Gary's thread is excellent. And there some other threads on here about antilock and discs. So, too, the TUSON antisway module.

Better tires are the right step as are better brakes.
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Old 12-01-2014, 09:15 PM   #55
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Am looking at getting new axles for my trailer and am considering whether to stick with the drum or get disc brakes so I am reading carefully.

Another question: I camped next to a fellow Airstreamer who spent a half day under his fairly new trailer changing a caliper on a disc brake that had seized or jammed or something and locked the wheel, causing a great deal of heat and smoke. He said that this was the second time that this had happened on his trailer. Is this a common occurrence? I have read that if disc brakes sit for a long time the slides for the caliper can get rusty and cause them to drag. Is this a common problem for disc trailer brakes? I had a caliper lock up on my old truck last year, possibly from a failed hose they said that did not let the caliper release pressure. Would not want that on a trailer.
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Old 12-01-2014, 09:38 PM   #56
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What's the frequent maintenance and repair? Maybe, mine are neglected, because I don't do any. I have Nev-R-Adjust brakes and Nev-R-Lube hubs. What else is there?

Ken
Nev-r adjust certainly reduces maintenance...in theory. Really, not too many folks in RV land have them. The problem then becomes lack of inspection and cleaning. One advantage of discs are the fact that they are self-cleaning, or shed their brake dust. Drums capture and hold brake dust---all over the backing plate, etc. Unless the BEST of materials are used, particularly for the self adjustment barrel and screw, they become ineffective and stuck. So regular drum removal is still necessary. Compound that with the owner's feeling of "nev-r-touch" convenience of Nev-r-lube and the drums nev-r-come-off....until something isn't working very obviously.

Discs can be thoroughly visually inspected every tire rotation without any dis-assembly. There are no adjustment mechanicals, no hidden parts, pads can be inspected through the back of the caliper, friction surfaces can be inspected, Nev-r lube bearings can be inspected for feel and excessive clearance without dis-assembly. (arguably, so can drums, except the shoes can interfere with that "feel").

To address the other post about calipers becoming stuck.....not multi-piston calipers where pistons are on both sides of the rotor. On those, the caliper is fixed and all motion is in the pistons which compress each pad independently. Single piston calipers slide on the knuckle, or hub flanges. If those sit for an extended period (like years), they can stick and cause heat and wear to the outboard pad...but it is pretty rare even for those of us who put up the AS for the winter. Again, an easy inspection during tire rotation. Also, with hydraulic brakes all pistons get equal apply pressure, always, until they get really old and the interior of the rubber line deteriorates. then you could get some flow issues.

I was ALWAYS chasing voltage and high resistance variations with electric brakes. At least every couple years...due to wire breakage/fatigue, corrosion, abrasion, etc. Without that maintenance, you get unequal braking apply and apply force. Add to that, unequal wear to the magnet friction surface and eventually shorted magnets, and you have a lot more maintenance and repair. At least that's been my personal experience thus far.
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