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Old 08-05-2018, 02:52 PM   #1
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Diagnosing trailer brake issue

I have a 2016 FC 25 that we ordered new and is barely used. Until recently we towed with a 2002 GMC 2500 HD Duramax and always thought our trailer brakes worked fine. My wife is the more experienced tow driver having towed horses in a heavy trailer for many years and she swears she could feel the trailer brakes on AS were applying correctly with the 2002 truck.

We have not used the AS since it was stored late last Fall.

We have just bought a 2018 GMN 3500 Denali Duramax, hooked it up to the AS and the DIS (Driver Info Display) tells us we now have a trailer brake wiring problem.

Here's what we've discovered.

We started with properly cleaned connections on our RV trailer connector wire. We hooked up to set up the brake controller that comes integral to the new truck. The brake lights, turn signal lights and marker lights on the AS all worked fine when actuated from the truck.

The truck manual says that when we connect up we are supposed to get this message in our DIC, ""Trailer Connected". We did not and instead we got "Check Trailer Wiring".

The truck manual said that to determine whether the fault is on the truck or trailer side we should leave the truck running and connected then:
1. Disconnect the trailer wiring harness.
2. Turn the ignition off.
3. Wait 10 seconds then turn the ignition to "ON".
4. If the Check Trailer Wiring message reappears the fault is on the truck side (it did NOT reappear).
5. If the Check Trailer Wiring message only reappears when connecting the wiring harness then the fault is on the trailer side (it reappeared when we reconnected).

So, according to the truck, the fault IF ANY lies on the trailer side.

I checked the fuses in the AS (and checked the AS manual about fuses) and there does not appear to be any fuse on the AS for any wiring pertaining to the trailer brakes. I looked on the fuse panel and below the trailer at the wiring to the wheels for possible inline fusing. (Anyone have any contrary info??).

Since we were only planning to pull out the AS to test for level after adjusting the truck hitch down 2" to accommodate the higher new truck and toddle round the neighbourhood for a gentle test, off we went. (The trailer level was perfect).

We decided to try the truck manual's instructions to have the truck brake controller self adjust for brake gain and see what happened. That required us to accelerate to 32 to 40 kmh (20-25 mph) and while maintaining that speed apply the Manual Trailer Brake Apply Lever so the trucks computer could set the Gain. We did that. We then switched the DIC to the view that shows Trailer Gain which is supposed to show the applied Gain when the trailer is connected and brakes are applied and drive around our area. We applied the brakes on level ground and on fairly steep downhill grades travelling at 50-60 KMH (say 30 mph). My wife says she could not feel any trailer braking and the DIC showed no Gain on its display when she applied brakes.

We then stopped the vehicle and manually increased the Gain on the trailer brake controller to its highest setting (10.0) to see whether that would lock up the brakes (wheel skid) when we drove and applied brakes. We tried it and still felt no trailer braking - no trailer wheel skid - on the same route/speed as before.

At that point we parked the trailer in the yard and opened a bottle of wine.

Does anyone have input on how to diagnose the issue as well as we can out our end before we take it in to our GMC dealer (who maybe can't help with trailer brake issues) or god forbid our RV repair place ("we can get you in in maybe 4 weeks and can you leave it with us for say 3 weeks").

I'm wondering whether I put the probe of a meter into the trailer wire socket of the truck to see whether the truck is sending a signal to the AS brakes. Assuming I find the pin pertaining to the brake how do I do that (one tester probe on the brake pin and the other where? 12v(+)? 12v(-)? The problem is also finding which pin pertains to the brake. Good idea or bad idea? If the truck is sending a signal then what?

Ideas?

Thanks folks.
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Old 08-05-2018, 03:02 PM   #2
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Important stuff first, what kinda wine?

Any chance that you have any other tow vehicle available with controller to do a trial brake test with?

Wiring, maybe jut take a look under the trailer and see if wiring has obvious disconnections.

I think it might be interesting to check the trailer plug and read ohms on that brake circuit wire. Open circuit?
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Old 08-05-2018, 03:33 PM   #3
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Enjoy your wine, then....

IF the brake controller thinks no trailer is connected, it may not send voltage to the brake wire, so if you try that test and don't get any voltage, that may be normal. On the other hand if you get voltage, it may be OK or there may not be enough current available to operate the brakes.

Here is a test that is independent of the truck.

Disconnect the trailer umbilical cable from the truck (this is an important step to protect the brake controller). Make sure the USE/STORE switch is in the use position. Jack up the trailer, or use a trailer aid if you have it, to get a wheel off the ground. Pull the breakaway cable and see if the brakes stop the wheel from turning. If the wheel cannot be turned, your brakes, with the potential exception of the wire to the truck, are working. Replace the breakaway cable.

If you are electrically handy and have access to a DC ammeter, set the ammeter on a scale over 12 amps. Put the red test lead in the BATTERY pin on the trailer umbilical and the black test lead in the BRAKE pin on the trailer umbilical.

See:
https://www.etrailer.com/question-363.html

If you are holding the umbilical plug with the locking tab up (12-o-clock) the BAT pin is at 11 and the brake pin is at 7.

The brakes should draw about 12 amps, and you should be unable to turn the raised wheel. If you pass this test, it is highly unlikely there is anything wrong with your trailer. If you don't have access to an ammeter, you can use a jumper wire. The safest thing to do is get an automotive fuse holder with a 20A fuse and use that for the jumper.


Al
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Old 08-05-2018, 04:15 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GCinSC2 View Post
Important stuff first, what kinda wine?

Any chance that you have any other tow vehicle available with controller to do a trial brake test with?

Wiring, maybe jut take a look under the trailer and see if wiring has obvious disconnections.
Type of wine: Large

My neighbour has a new Ford ¾ ton for his RV so I'll ask him.

Wiring under trailer is smooth and intact.

Thanks.
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Old 08-05-2018, 04:26 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by Al and Missy View Post

Disconnect the trailer umbilical cable from the truck (this is an important step to protect the brake controller). Make sure the USE/STORE switch is in the use position. Jack up the trailer, or use a trailer aid if you have it, to get a wheel off the ground. Pull the breakaway cable and see if the brakes stop the wheel from turning. If the wheel cannot be turned, your brakes, with the potential exception of the wire to the truck, are working. Replace the breakaway cable.

If you are electrically handy and have access to a DC ammeter, set the ammeter on a scale over 12 amps. Put the red test lead in the BATTERY pin on the trailer umbilical and the black test lead in the BRAKE pin on the trailer umbilical.


The brakes should draw about 12 amps, and you should be unable to turn the raised wheel. If you pass this test, it is highly unlikely there is anything wrong with your trailer.

Al
Thanks Al. Great link to a good pic of the plug. Found one in the AS manual too though what you call BATT is in AS digram as Black 12v (+) (with White 12v (-) at 5:00. I assumed that from your reply though.

Never jacked up my trailer before but can give it a shot. I see where to put the jack as marked on the frame. Maybe dumb question though re firing the breakaway (which I've never done before) - if I reinsert the breakaway pin (it's a pin?) after firing does that simple action reestablish the original set up?

RE the volt/ammeter, I have a good one.

I'm confused on on the current draw test, do I do that after the breakaway is fired or is the ammeter test independent of that? Why would I be "unable to turn the raised wheel" with the test leads in place? (I have physics major but that was from a time before gravity was discovered).

Thanks,

Gary
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Old 08-05-2018, 04:50 PM   #6
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Re: BAT/+12V - different name for the same wire. Don't use the -12. The brakes are wired from the brake wire to ground already.


Rather than jacking, you could pull the front wheel on one side up on some lumber. About 3 pieces of 2x4 should do it. Loosen the lug nuts on the back wheel before jacking or pulling up on lumber.

Breakaway switches vary. Some are a metallic pin, others are plastic wedges. All are connected to a braided wire or plastic pigtail. Just pull it out. Check the wheel for rotation and put it back. Not good for the brakes to leave it out more than a few minutes. Yes, that establishes the original configuration.

Current test is separate from the breakaway test. When you put the test leads of the ammeter (note - set to more than 12 amp scale, not a volts scale) in place it forms a circuit between the +12V and the brakes which is exactly the same thing that the breakaway switch does as well as the same as the brake controller putting brakes full on.


Al
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Old 08-05-2018, 05:49 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Al and Missy View Post
Re: BAT/+12V - different name for the same wire. Don't use the -12. The brakes are wired from the brake wire to ground already.


Rather than jacking, you could pull the front wheel on one side up on some lumber. About 3 pieces of 2x4 should do it. Loosen the lug nuts on the back wheel before jacking or pulling up on lumber.

Breakaway switches vary. Some are a metallic pin, others are plastic wedges. All are connected to a braided wire or plastic pigtail. Just pull it out. Check the wheel for rotation and put it back. Not good for the brakes to leave it out more than a few minutes. Yes, that establishes the original configuration.

Current test is separate from the breakaway test. When you put the test leads of the ammeter (note - set to more than 12 amp scale, not a volts scale) in place it forms a circuit between the +12V and the brakes which is exactly the same thing that the breakaway switch does as well as the same as the brake controller putting brakes full on.


Al
Thanks very much Al. I will give it a try albeit not until later in the week. I'll let you know how it turns out.

Gary
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Old 08-05-2018, 08:29 PM   #8
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Make sure the umbilical cord plug is firmly inserted as deep as it will go, not just until the cover latch clears the tab on the plug. The orientation on some of the latest GM and Ford trucks is not the most robust, with the hinged cover on the bottom (cover on top is most robust). Also the plug on the end of the cable used in new Airstreams does NOT adhere to the Society of Automotive Engineers specification that the truck plugs were designed to. This combination of parts that were not designed to the same standard makes it more likely the the plug can fit loosely in the receptacle and worse tilt downward. When this occurs, the first pins to not make contact are the trailer brake control and or ground wires. The trailer lights probably continue to work, even if they have to find a secondary ground via the hitch ball. The sensitive brake controls are the most likely to not work in this instance.
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Old 08-05-2018, 08:46 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 66Overlander View Post
Make sure the umbilical cord plug is firmly inserted as deep as it will go, not just until the cover latch clears the tab on the plug. The orientation on some of the latest GM and Ford trucks is not the most robust, with the hinged cover on the bottom (cover on top is most robust). Also the plug on the end of the cable used in new Airstreams does NOT adhere to the Society of Automotive Engineers specification that the truck plugs were designed to. This combination of parts that were not designed to the same standard makes it more likely the the plug can fit loosely in the receptacle and worse tilt downward. When this occurs, the first pins to not make contact are the trailer brake control and or ground wires. The trailer lights probably continue to work, even if they have to find a secondary ground via the hitch ball. The sensitive brake controls are the most likely to not work in this instance.
Who in their right mind would hinge the cover on the bottom?
Was the truck receptacle installed up side down?
Seems like a great dust and moisture collector. IMHO
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Old 08-06-2018, 07:00 AM   #10
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Also the plug on the end of the cable used in new Airstreams does NOT adhere to the Society of Automotive Engineers specification that the truck plugs were designed to.

Curious, do you have a favorite replacement plug brand or design? Maybe a pic of good v not so good.

Just interested, not arguing.
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Old 08-06-2018, 08:30 AM   #11
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Caution. I cannot be sure that the umbilical cord interface is the source of the issue the original poster is experiencing, but it could be. In any case, the following discussion is good information.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TG Twinkie View Post
Who in their right mind would hinge the cover on the bottom?
Was the truck receptacle installed up side down?
Seems like a great dust and moisture collector. IMHO
I agree. The ability of the cover to collect dust and moisture and then project it into the receptacle onto the pins when the plug is removed and the cover snaps closed is not a good thing. Worse. however, is that the geometry in this orientation makes the trailer brake pins (which are on top in this orientation) the most likely to experiencing open circuits or intermittent connections. Tilting of the plug within the receptacle due to gravity or road vibration will tend to cause the the brake and ground pins to pull apart (rather than push together as would happen with the hinged cover on top and the trailer brake and ground pins are at the bottom). One of my last projects before retiring as an automotive engineer was to study intermittent connections in this interface and recommend changes.
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Curious, do you have a favorite replacement plug brand or design? Maybe a pic of good v not so good.

Just interested, not arguing.
Quick answer: Pollak. As noted, I study this interface before retirement. We measured and physically tested a variety of plugs, but due to the shear numbers we could not test them all, but we learned enough to make recommendations. The truck receptacles with 6 flat pins around a round center pin that come standard on full size trucks are are designed to the Society of Automotive Engioneers (SAE) standard known a J2863. This applies to at least Ford, Chevy/GMC, and Dodge. Not sure about the import brands.

The only brand of trailer plug that was found to comply to the requirements of SAE J2863 were the plugs made a company called Pollak. We did the most testing with the Pollak 12-706 plug, but I believe their other plugs comply as well. I cannot say that no other company's plugs comply with J2863, but we did not find any in our study. What we did find, was many "other brand" plugs that often differed dimensionally in several ways from the dimensions specified in J2863. Some of the plugs preformed "pretty good" (i.e. minimal intermittencies or open circuits during vibration and other testing, but none perfect" except the Pollak) and some pretty poorly. Some of the worst were the rubberized mold-on plugs, since they use a different terminal design than that specified in J2863 and the mold-on rubber plugs are not good at holding tight tolerances on dimensions like a hard plastic plug (though there are several "other brand" hard plastic plugs that also differ from SAE J2863). Unfortunately, we found that almost all trailer manufacturers that we were able to check (perhaps a dozen or two dozen brands, a good cross section, but clearly not all) use some sort of rubbery mold-on plug (including Airstream).

The conclusions of the study:

1. Receptacles oriented with the hinged cover on top performed best. Hinged cover on the side was almost as good. Hinged cover on the bottom was clearly inferior and allowed the most open circuits and intermittencies.

2. Plugs from Pollak performed the best and with them no issues were found with the receptacle in ANY orientation. Most other plugs tested had issues in in some or all receptacle orientations, but performed the worse by far with the hinged cover at the bottom. Some plugs were far worse than others. Because of the high number of different plug brands and designs (including cheap Chinese "knock offs" that were sold as a "name brand", but clearly weren't), it is impossible to make any recommendations other than Pollak.

3. Old/worn parts did not perform as well as new parts.

Caution. There was no way to test all possible brands, plug designs, and combinations. Please test your combination and convince yourself you have a good umbilical cord interface.

Suggestions to make it better:

1. Make sure the trailer plug is fully inserted as far as it will go each time you connect your Airstream to your tow vehicle. Do not stop pushing when the receptacle cover latch just barely latches on the trailer plug.

2. Wrap a velcro strip around the inserted trailer plug and receptacle hinged cover to make it harder for the plug to back out due to gravity and road vibration while driving.

3. Check this connection each time you stop for a travel break and push the plug back in as far as possible if it has moved.

4. During stops or at least before each day’s travel, check to make sure the trailer lights are all working. When you first pull away in the morning or after a rest stop, manually apply the trailer brakes to make sure they are working.

5. Monitor your trailer brake controller display while driving. If it indicates a problem, pull over as soon as possible in a safe location and check the trailer plug. Your issue might be more complicated, but it might be as simple as a loose trailer plug.

6. Replace the trailer receptacle and/or plug if they become worn or damaged. Wear and corrosion on the pins will make connectivity issues more likely. Wear or cracks on the plastic parts can allow for increased movement between the receptacle and trailer plug.

7. Change the trailer plug on your Airstream to a design that is compliant with SAE J2863. This information can be hard to find, but at a minimum all trailer plugs made by Pollak are compliant with SAE J2863.

8. Orient the 7-pin trailer receptacle on your tow vehicle with the hinged cover on top if possible.

I hope this information is helpful. You will not find any analysis of this interface this detailed at any truck or trailer manufacturer, so they you will got get this type of list of recommendations from their dealers. They may be unable to truly diagnose the source of an interface problem that needs to be studied as a "system", part truck and part trailer. Good luck!
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Old 08-06-2018, 08:53 AM   #12
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On the other end of the connection.....

I replaced my umbilical cord and, in the process, found three variants of the plug. One had only a single contact finger to mate with one side of the pin in the truck. Another had two contact fingers but the distance between them was not uniform pin to pin and they didn't seem to have much temper, they could be bent easily. The third was, not surprisingly, the most expensive but it had fingers on both sides, uniformly spaced to fit the pin tightly and a good temper. I think I paid over $60 for an 8' cable.

On my Ram I have to lift up slightly on the plug while inserting to get it to go in all the way. We have had it vibrate out once (just between us after DW plugged it it) but it happened right after leaving our site and the truck alerted me.


Al
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Old 08-06-2018, 09:19 AM   #13
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Had same problem on 2016 duramax and 2017 classic. Mechanic finally found
30 amp fuse in fuseblock under hood blown.
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Old 08-06-2018, 09:20 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Al and Missy View Post
I replaced my umbilical cord and, in the process, found three variants of the plug. One had only a single contact finger to mate with one side of the pin in the truck. Another had two contact fingers but the distance between them was not uniform pin to pin and they didn't seem to have much temper, they could be bent easily. The third was, not surprisingly, the most expensive but it had fingers on both sides, uniformly spaced to fit the pin tightly and a good temper. I think I paid over $60 for an 8' cable.

On my Ram I have to lift up slightly on the plug while inserting to get it to go in all the way. We have had it vibrate out once (just between us after DW plugged it it) but it happened right after leaving our site and the truck alerted me.


Al
Interestingly, SAE J2863 calls out a flat blade on the trailer plug, as is used on all Pollak plugs. Those that have bent or double sided terminals are clearly NOT designed to SAE J2863. Performance may vary widely when deviating from SAE J2863. Some terminal designs may be as good (or possibly better?), but many are clearly inferior. Some we found some that looked good, but the terminals were recessed into the plug body further than specified by SAE J2863, so did not make good contact. It is complicated. Terminal location within the plug can be as important as terminal design.
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Old 08-06-2018, 10:07 AM   #15
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My trailer brakes failed on my 2016 25’ FC that I tow with my 2016 Chevy High Country Duramax. Took it the chevy dealer and some sort of trailer brake control module failed. Fixed under warranty, brakes worked. I think I would take the truck to the dealer first to see if that is the problem.
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Old 08-06-2018, 10:12 AM   #16
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Make sure the umbilical cord plug is firmly inserted as deep as it will go, not just until the cover latch clears the tab on the plug. The orientation on some of the latest GM and Ford trucks is not the most robust, with the hinged cover on the bottom (cover on top is most robust). Also the plug on the end of the cable used in new Airstreams does NOT adhere to the Society of Automotive Engineers specification that the truck plugs were designed to. This combination of parts that were not designed to the same standard makes it more likely the the plug can fit loosely in the receptacle and worse tilt downward. When this occurs, the first pins to not make contact are the trailer brake control and or ground wires. The trailer lights probably continue to work, even if they have to find a secondary ground via the hitch ball. The sensitive brake controls are the most likely to not work in this instance.
Yes, my GM receptacle is the upside down variety (dual plug with the utility trailer plug the correct way round). I looked at the other side of the bumper and it doesn’t look like the dual plug unit could easily be flipped the other way round.

Can one buy an after market RV-end plug that conforms to SAE standards and how hard is it to swap plug ends?

I’ll have someone hold the plug in tight and square and test again.

Thanks!
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Old 08-06-2018, 10:56 AM   #17
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Joe,

Thanks for taking the time to share the info and type up that reply.

I like it.

I replaced the original plug a few years ago to an unbranded flat blade. I consider my electrical hand skills as good to semi skilled at least. No issues to date. My Dodge is top hinged and I found mini loop and ball elastic keepers at Lowe’s one is for the plug connection.

I’ll keep eyes open for branded Pollak 12-706 plugs and carry a spare.

Nicely reported, thank you.

Gary
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Old 08-06-2018, 06:45 PM   #18
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Yes, my GM receptacle is the upside down variety (dual plug with the utility trailer plug the correct way round). I looked at the other side of the bumper and it doesn’t look like the dual plug unit could easily be flipped the other way round.

Can one buy an after market RV-end plug that conforms to SAE standards and how hard is it to swap plug ends?

I’ll have someone hold the plug in tight and square and test again.

Thanks!
OK folks, I did the test and it appears Al (60Overlander) has hit the issue on the head for me.

With my wife observing the DIC on the dash I inserted the trailer plug very firmly maintaining insertion pressure with my hands, even when the upside down lid engaged the tab on the plug. This time we got the proper "Trailer Connected" message and the Trailer Gain DIC display actually worked and showed brake effort as my wife pressed the brake pedal. YAY!

Then, I relaxed my insertion pressure on the trailer plug. Without noticeable movement of the trailer plug in the truck receptacle the DIC display "Check Trailer Wiring" popped up.

I could repeatedly get the correct Trailer Connected message holding the proper insertion and repeatedly then get the Check Trailer Wiring by ever so gently releasing and putting some downward pressure on the trailer plug. Twice I got the proper connection and maintained it after releasing grip pressure, but if I gently pressed down on the trailer plug I lost the connection. This makes sense because as Al notes in the upside down configuration the contact for the trailer brakes is at the top of the plug and when the plug levers down that connection is the first to go.

I don't think "velcro welding" the drug plug cover in place on the trailer plug is going to cut it while doing normal driving with its customary dips and bumps. I need a solution that gives me a much tighter fit between trailer plug and truck receptacle. I could make the plug fatter with a wrap of electrical tape I suppose but I'm not sure that's a reliable long term fix. A better trailer plug is likely the solution.

Maybe I should tow the AS to our local hitch guy in Nanaimo (Mid Island Trailer & Hitch) and see what he can do. He has a good reputation although I've never had to use him.

I'll also look for a Pollak plug.

At least it's nice to know my trailer brakes still do work.

Thanks all.

Gary
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Old 08-06-2018, 06:55 PM   #19
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Well that wasn't too hard ... Hitchweb.com sells Pollak plugs (and other's plugs) online here in Canada ... the website does not list SAE J2863 in the specs section of any product. More investigation required ...

Gary
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Old 08-06-2018, 07:22 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gnijman View Post
OK folks, I did the test and it appears Al (60Overlander) has hit the issue on the head for me.
. . .

This makes sense because as Al notes in the upside down configuration the contact for the trailer brakes is at the top of the plug and when the plug levers down that connection is the first to go.
Glad I could help . . but the name is Joe, not Al (no big deal tho).


Quote:
Originally Posted by gnijman View Post
Well that wasn't too hard ... Hitchweb.com sells Pollak plugs (and other's plugs) online here in Canada ... the website does not list SAE J2863 in the specs section of any product. More investigation required ...

Gary
The Pollak 12-706 is basically the hard plastic "bolt-on" plug (they also make a metal housing version). It is available by number in many places online, including eBay.

In a trailer parts store, you probably won't see the 12-706 number listed, but if it is hard plastic and says "Pollak" on it, that's the one:


And yes, finding one that says it meets J2863 is tough. I remember the engineering drawing for the Pollak 12-706 did not specifically list that spec, but the part measurements all were within the tolerances listed in J2863.
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