Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 03-26-2012, 12:37 PM   #15
Rivet Master
 
noreen&sal's Avatar
 
1981 27' Excella II
mays landing , South Jersey
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,179
Images: 9
Quote:
Originally Posted by perryg114 View Post
Yes they are very thin and they should be twice that thick to fill out a standard 12" drum. If they are not thick enough they are only going to touch the drum in the middle which causes problems. I have never had glued on linings fail before on a car.

Perry
So, as thin as they are, not enough "meat" for rivets? Sal.
__________________

__________________
Sal & Nora
Let us live so that when we die even the undertaker will be sorry. Mark Twain
AIR 42483
TAC N.J. 17
WBCCI 24740
noreen&sal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2012, 12:41 PM   #16
ALUMINUM OBSSESSION
 
1993 34' Limited
Hamilton , Ontario
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 157
Since these brake situations are taking place, it would be wise
to inspect the brakes every spring before you use the trailer.
Rust can get in between the shoe and the lining.
This has happened on cars/trucks.
Heat, as well as inferior materials can definately cause the lining to separate from the shoe. I'm sorry my fellow airstreamers are experiencing these problems.
__________________

__________________
william Haym is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2012, 12:49 PM   #17
Rivet Master
 
1981 31' Excella II
New Market , Alabama
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 5,648
I wonder if disk brake pads are made in china as well. Maybe going to disk brakes would make these problems go away. However, if the disk brake systems use a trailer specific brake pad then you may have the same problems because there is this mindset in the industry that anything trailer is not worth spending the money to do right. Why does something that is used on farmer John's pig trailer that never goes over 25 MPH, need to be engineered correctly.

Perry
__________________
perryg114 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2012, 01:16 PM   #18
CLOUDSPLITTER "Tahawas"
 
ROBERT CROSS's Avatar

 
2003 25' Classic
Zanadude Nebula , WNY
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 11,153
Images: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by noreen View Post
I just did the backing plate replacement recently. Is it just me or are the linings very thin. I actually wondered why I was bothering. Sal.
Sal,
Yes...the Dexter lining's are a lot thinner than a regular auto replacement.

That's the reason you can't just drill and rivet a standard Dexter shoe. You need enough material on the new lining to account for the drilling and countersinking of the rivet holes in the new linings.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wmarsha View Post
Have you finished your install of the new shoes? if not, have them riveted, also. save yourself some aggravation down the road. If so, how much work is it to take them out versus the lost miles in replacing them prematurely? thanks for the headsup.
Yes, I have replaced with OEM Dexter 7000lb shoes.
How much work? I think what folks find most frustrating about replacing just the shoes is getting the darn springs re-secured without the proper tools. Most find it easier to replace with the "loaded" assembly. The price's quoted on etrailer say to me that the entire assemblies are made in China.
That may very well also apply to the Airstream OEM's.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Globie64 View Post
this is pretty interesting. I have about 500 miles on my new Dexter axle, and have noticed that the brake drums get rusty very quickly- we live in a damp environment, and the car brakes grind after sitting for a few days, but I had never noticed this with the trailer. How many miles have you all gotten out of a set of brake shoes?
Surface rust on the friction surface of drums & rotors is common in damp conditions. Not usually a serious problem on vehicles used every day as the friction material usually removes it within a couple brake applications. On a trailer that sit's for an extended period it becomes a bit more of a problem. But as you can see in the pic's from my bearing re-pack post, even after sitting thru the WNY Winter it's not cause for drum replacement.
I had less than 10k on the OEM's, not for ware but for cracks and glazing, 6k on the second set for bonding failure.

Perry,

Have you replaced the shoes with the 7000lb replacement's? They are supposed to have a more aggressive friction material than the 4-5k shoes.

Bob,

You might consider trying to find a local brake rebuilding shop in your area that can do the riveted up-grade.
Or do the google for Buffalo Clutch in NY and ask Greg for his recommendation's, he seemed to be very familiar with the bonding problem.

Bob
__________________
PFC.....

“After all these years the reason I continue to love Thanksgiving.....I still sit at the kids table.”
RLC

Sandra wanted to go to Cleveland on vacation,
but I’m the Husband, so we went to Cleveland.
RLC
ROBERT CROSS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2012, 01:38 PM   #19
Rivet Master
 
Bob Thompson's Avatar
 
Corpus Christi , Texas
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 936
Images: 67
I think my approach will be....take the new shoes to a Brake and Clutch rebuilder and have them surfaced with the best shoe material plus rivets.
__________________
So Long!
Bob Thompson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2012, 01:56 PM   #20
CLOUDSPLITTER "Tahawas"
 
ROBERT CROSS's Avatar

 
2003 25' Classic
Zanadude Nebula , WNY
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 11,153
Images: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Thompson View Post
I think my approach will be....take the new shoes to a Brake and Clutch rebuilder and have them surfaced with the best shoe material plus rivets.
Bob,

Keep us posted...

I plan to have my cores done also but won't be installing them until the new Dexters fail/ware out.

Bob
__________________
PFC.....

“After all these years the reason I continue to love Thanksgiving.....I still sit at the kids table.”
RLC

Sandra wanted to go to Cleveland on vacation,
but I’m the Husband, so we went to Cleveland.
RLC
ROBERT CROSS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2012, 02:00 PM   #21
Rivet Master
 
1981 31' Excella II
New Market , Alabama
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 5,648
The friction material I have is too aggresive as it is. This causes brakes to lock up. You get a situation where the brakes are locked or they are off. Drum brakes are very sensitive to the shape and type of friction material. The braking force is amplified by the friction of the shoe on the drum. Too much friction and they lock. Too little and they never lock. This is why the front shoe is made differently than the rear shoe.

Perry
__________________
perryg114 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2012, 09:29 AM   #22
CLOUDSPLITTER "Tahawas"
 
ROBERT CROSS's Avatar

 
2003 25' Classic
Zanadude Nebula , WNY
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 11,153
Images: 1
Question Up-date.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ROBERT CROSS View Post
Had to get it back together ASAP, didn't need all the hardware, just better quality shoes.

No word back from Dexter yet.

Bob
I just replied to this email.......


Ms Massie,

Thank You for your prompt reply.
I would like to clarify one point, the brake shoes I recently replaced on our 2004 Airstream were not the originals from 2004. They were Dexter replacements with less than 6000mi on them. As you can see in the attached photo I believe your comment on inadequate bonding definitely applies in this situation as there was plenty of friction material left.
I use a Hensley Arrow hitch along with their Trucontrol brake controller and have never experienced brake lock-up or overheating problems.

Regards,
Bob Crosse






On Mar 27, 2012, at 9:36 AM, Massie, Connie wrote:

Good morning Mr. Crosse,

Your e-mail was sent to our Service/Warranty department for our direct
response to you. First of all, we want to thank you for writing to inform
us of your experience in the pad separating from the metal shoe table.
Pad separation can be caused by heat, or if the shoe surface had
contamination in which the bonding did not adhere to the metal shoe table,
if due to insufficient bonding. You report that the brake pads were from
your 2004 Airstream trailer.

We have made changes to our bonding process and vendors over the years in
order to manufacture the best components in the industry. While we are
aware of our competitors using riveted linings, we still continue to bond
our brake linings as various testing indicates that this works the best in
the trailer industry. We appreciate your input because this allows us to
continually upgrade our processes as technology allows.

Thank you so much for your input. If we can be of any further service
please feel free to contact us.

Best Regards,


Connie Massie
Warranty Administrator
Dexter Axle Co.
Phone #: 574-296-7301

First Name: Robert
Last Name: Crosse
Email Address: [emailxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx[/email]
Phone: 716 xxxxxxxxx
Preferred Method of Contact:: Email
Questions or Comments: TWIMC,
I replaced the brake shoe's on our 04 Airstream Classic today. I had
re-packed the wheel bearings and noticed that although there was plenty of
friction material left,(6000mi), there was an 1/8" gap between the friction
material and metal core. I took the shoe's off and the entire pad came off
one and the other one broke in half.



I don't have the receipt for the ones I replaced 6k ago but I sure have the
one for today!! $252.30---4) K71-127-00 12"x2".

How about a riveted option?

I have been an Auto Tech for 35 years and the only time I ever saw similar
failures it was due overheating and even then it only exhibited severe
cracking, no separation.

I do feel they should last longer...better materials.
They used too...... I had Dexter shoes on our 63 Safari for over 30000mi-18
Seasons.

Thank You,

Bob Crosse


Page: Dexter Axle - Trailer Axles and Running Gear Components - Contact Us

__________________________________________________ ____________________
This email has been scanned by the Symantec Email Security.cloud service.
For more information please visit Hosted Anti-Spam Filter | Email Anti-Virus | Web & Email Security
__________________________________________________ ______



Bob
__________________
PFC.....

“After all these years the reason I continue to love Thanksgiving.....I still sit at the kids table.”
RLC

Sandra wanted to go to Cleveland on vacation,
but I’m the Husband, so we went to Cleveland.
RLC
ROBERT CROSS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2012, 10:56 AM   #23
Rivet Master
 
crispyboy's Avatar
 
1994 30' Excella
alexandria , Kentucky
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 1,655
Images: 3
What a non-answer Dexter gave you about your problem. They might as well have told you to "go fly a kite in a coal mine".
I think I would look into having them riveted.
__________________
Steve, Christy, Anna and Scout (Border Collie deceased 11-30-2016)
1994 Classic 30'11" Excella - rear twin
2009 Dodge 2500, 6 Speed Auto, CTD, Quad Cab, Short Bed
Hensley with adjustable stinger
WBCCI # 3072
crispyboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2012, 10:59 AM   #24
Rivet Master
 
1981 31' Excella II
New Market , Alabama
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 5,648
I believe the reason that the linings are so thin is because they a cheap. I also think that in so doing that they are not filling the shoes all the way up. In other words the lining thickness is about half as thick as it should be to match a 12" diameter drum. This causes the drum surface to only touch the center of the drum. To test this theory out you would need a new drum and a new shoe. Put the shoe inside the drum and see if there is a gap at each end of the lining. If I am right, the shoes will only touch in the center. There may be as much as a .030 gap at each end. So these cheap shoes won't break in properly because of the diameter miss match which is going to cause erratic braking performance. It will also cause hot spots on the lining and possibly contribute to the bonding issues.


Perry
__________________
perryg114 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2012, 11:28 AM   #25
Well Preserved

 
1993 21' Sovereign
Colfax , North Carolina
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 20,190
Quote:
Originally Posted by perryg114 View Post
I wonder if disk brake pads are made in china as well. Maybe going to disk brakes would make these problems go away. However, if the disk brake systems use a trailer specific brake pad then you may have the same problems because there is this mindset in the industry that anything trailer is not worth spending the money to do right. Why does something that is used on farmer John's pig trailer that never goes over 25 MPH, need to be engineered correctly.

Perry
If you get the Kodiak brakes, they use an automotive pad, available
at any auto parts store.
__________________
Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy, and taste good with ketchup.
Terry
overlander63 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2012, 11:49 AM   #26
CLOUDSPLITTER "Tahawas"
 
ROBERT CROSS's Avatar

 
2003 25' Classic
Zanadude Nebula , WNY
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 11,153
Images: 1
Thumbs up

Don't give up on them yet gang..... just received another email asking for more info.

Will keep you posted.

Bob
__________________
PFC.....

“After all these years the reason I continue to love Thanksgiving.....I still sit at the kids table.”
RLC

Sandra wanted to go to Cleveland on vacation,
but I’m the Husband, so we went to Cleveland.
RLC
ROBERT CROSS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2012, 12:05 PM   #27
Rivet Master
 
1981 31' Excella II
New Market , Alabama
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 5,648
For $250 you should get free shoes for life.

Perry

Quote:
Originally Posted by ROBERT CROSS View Post
I just replied to this email.......


Ms Massie,

Thank You for your prompt reply.
I would like to clarify one point, the brake shoes I recently replaced on our 2004 Airstream were not the originals from 2004. They were Dexter replacements with less than 6000mi on them. As you can see in the attached photo I believe your comment on inadequate bonding definitely applies in this situation as there was plenty of friction material left.
I use a Hensley Arrow hitch along with their Trucontrol brake controller and have never experienced brake lock-up or overheating problems.

Regards,
Bob Crosse






On Mar 27, 2012, at 9:36 AM, Massie, Connie wrote:

Good morning Mr. Crosse,

Your e-mail was sent to our Service/Warranty department for our direct
response to you. First of all, we want to thank you for writing to inform
us of your experience in the pad separating from the metal shoe table.
Pad separation can be caused by heat, or if the shoe surface had
contamination in which the bonding did not adhere to the metal shoe table,
if due to insufficient bonding. You report that the brake pads were from
your 2004 Airstream trailer.

We have made changes to our bonding process and vendors over the years in
order to manufacture the best components in the industry. While we are
aware of our competitors using riveted linings, we still continue to bond
our brake linings as various testing indicates that this works the best in
the trailer industry. We appreciate your input because this allows us to
continually upgrade our processes as technology allows.

Thank you so much for your input. If we can be of any further service
please feel free to contact us.

Best Regards,


Connie Massie
Warranty Administrator
Dexter Axle Co.
Phone #: 574-296-7301

First Name: Robert
Last Name: Crosse
Email Address: [emailxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx[/email]
Phone: 716 xxxxxxxxx
Preferred Method of Contact:: Email
Questions or Comments: TWIMC,
I replaced the brake shoe's on our 04 Airstream Classic today. I had
re-packed the wheel bearings and noticed that although there was plenty of
friction material left,(6000mi), there was an 1/8" gap between the friction
material and metal core. I took the shoe's off and the entire pad came off
one and the other one broke in half.



I don't have the receipt for the ones I replaced 6k ago but I sure have the
one for today!! $252.30---4) K71-127-00 12"x2".

How about a riveted option?

I have been an Auto Tech for 35 years and the only time I ever saw similar
failures it was due overheating and even then it only exhibited severe
cracking, no separation.

I do feel they should last longer...better materials.
They used too...... I had Dexter shoes on our 63 Safari for over 30000mi-18
Seasons.

Thank You,

Bob Crosse


Page: Dexter Axle - Trailer Axles and Running Gear Components - Contact Us

__________________________________________________ ____________________
This email has been scanned by the Symantec Email Security.cloud service.
For more information please visit Hosted Anti-Spam Filter | Email Anti-Virus | Web & Email Security
__________________________________________________ ______



Bob
__________________
perryg114 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2012, 11:37 PM   #28
Rivet Master
 
JFScheck's Avatar
 
Vintage Kin Owner
Rockville , Maryland
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,474
Images: 33
Any more updates, damn - I'm kinda missing the disc brakes from my '09 25 footer classic... :-(
__________________

__________________
John "JFScheck" Scheck
2015 Roadtrek CS Adventurous XL
2015 Mercedes Sprinter 3500 XL Chassis with Mercedes BlueTec V6 Diesel
**I Love U.S.A.**
JFScheck is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
DirecLink Brake controller... Mexray Brakes & Brake Controllers 123 01-03-2016 09:58 AM
Dexter Axle replacement ljmorr3 Axles 17 03-29-2013 02:42 PM
Brake wiring goofup... Need some help SafariFaye Brakes & Brake Controllers 9 05-06-2012 08:37 PM
OEM brake actuator? 1958 Traveler cuyeda Brakes & Brake Controllers 26 03-26-2012 09:42 PM
Driver side brake lights do not work 82 excella General Repair Forum 17 03-16-2012 04:40 PM


Virginia Campgrounds

Reviews provided by




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:08 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

Airstream is a registered trademark of Airstream Inc. All rights reserved. Airstream trademark used under license to Social Knowledge LLC.