Crumbling Brake Pads

[SRW]

I had Kodiak disc brakes on my 2008 International for 11 months. During that time we have gone about 5,000 miles, with no panic stops.

When the wheels were removed to grease the bearings I saw that there is crumbling along the entire top edge of the outside break pads at all four wheels.

The inside break pads were perfect.

Other then the crumbling there is no other excessive wear such as cracks.

The pads look like someone tried to cope the edge with a rasp.

I know that brake pad crumbling is not particularly unusual with poor quality pads, but I am disappointed that it happened with Kodiak's.

[Action]

Could it be from normanl wear and the crumbs are the pieces of worn pad?

You might want to post a pic.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Action

[overlander63]

Originally Posted by SRW

I have added two photos of the crumbling brake pads.

Where are the photos posted?

[SRW]

OK, I have added two photos of the "crumbling" brake pads.

The top photo, of the outside pad, shows that the pad has started to disintegrate from the top edge down. What cause it - I am not sure. Would the crumbling have continued - I am not sure.

The bottom photo, of the inside brake pad shows a wear pattern that may indicate that the pad is over sized for the size of the rotor.

Is it normal for pads to extend above the edge of the rotor - I don't know, but the fact that they do so may explain the crumbling of the outside pads.

All out side pads are worn pretty much the same. All inside pads are worn pretty much the same.

SRW


Cal 4.jpg

Cal 5.jpg

[Action]

Awesome photos!

The left pic may indicate that debris was caught by the outside of the rotor. Sand??

How does the rotor look on the most outside edge?

>>>>>>>>Action

[HowieE]

If the pads are other than Chinese I would contact the manufacture and question the crumbling of the outer pad.

The pads in general were designed for a small dia. rotor as indicated but the ware mark on the inner pad.

[Rebee]

Just a thought, When the pads are mounted, in the normal location to the disk, is the face of the disk and the pad parallel. Appears the disk could be tilted toward the pad causing it to rub on the outer disk when not braking. Inspection could need some type of thickness gauge to check upper and lower side of pad to disk.

dale

[HowieE]

Originally Posted by Rebee

Just a thought, When the pads are mounted, in the normal location to the disk, is the face of the disk and the pad parallel. Appears the disk could be tilted toward the pad causing it to rub on the outer disk when not braking. Inspection could need some type of thickness gauge to check upper and lower side of pad to disk.

dale

If that were the case the pad would ware to the rotor in very short order thus eliminating the problem.

[overlander63]

I've seen the outer pads extend slightly over the outer edge of the rotor on the Kodiak brakes. The outer edge crumbling could be from the slight elongation of the rotor. The rotor's outer edge will push outward against the part of the pad that extends over it, eventually breaking pieces off from the force.

[SRW]

I spoke with a Kodiak rep this afternoon. (I had emailed them a few days ago, but received no response.)

I described how the brake pads were wearing, and that I had replaced them.

The Kodiak rep said that the wear pattern of the inside pad (with the raised edge) was due to the fact that the dimension of the brake assembly did not exactly match the diameter of the rotor, and was something they had seen before.

He suggested that it was difficult for Kodiak to make a system that dimensionally matched exactly all of the different brake pads available, and went on to say that the ridge would get "higher" as the pad continued to wear - and presented no risk or had a negative affect on the brake's performance.

He said essentially the same for the crumbling edge - no negative affect on performance.

SRW

[HowieE]

Not sure I would want to trust my life to a company that can't design a system to have the pads match the rotors. Small in pads on larger rotors is not acceptable. If they are that incompetent what else have they screwed up.

There is a tread on this forum of a member in England that has had 4 Kodak controller fail on his rig.

I trust we will hear more about Kodak.

[SRW]

".......There is a tread on this forum of a member in England that has had 4 Kodak controller fail on his rig." (Quote)

To be clear: I am very pleased with the "stopping" performance of the disc brake system that I had installed on my AS.

It is in fact an electric/hydraulic braking system using a brake controller manufactured by ActiBrake in conjunction with the Kodiak hydraulic brakes.

Does Kodiak even manufacture a electric/hydraulic brake controller?

Of course, its too bad that ActiBrake is no longer in business.

SRW



With

[Gene]

I'm glad you replaced all the pads (all meaning all 8 pads I hope). If I had this problem, I would be worried much more would crumble causing damage to the rotors.

Since the inner and outer pads are different they could have been made at different times on different machines using different stuff. A crumbling pad sounds like a very inferior product and may indicate a different source or material. The wear from a smaller rotor on the inner pad wouldn't bother me too much, although as more wear happened, would that ridge cause a problem. The response from Kodiak seems less that truthful.

Whether this is what happened or not, I don't know, but it seems when a previously reputable manufacturer starts outsourcing to another country they receive poor quality products until they convince their new supplier they won't accept garbage, or they'll get a new source.

I assume these are OEM brakes and another possible example of poor QC in Airstreams.

Gene

[WK57ABF]

SRW,

Have had braking problems on our 2007 25' Classic for two years now. Fourth Actibrkae has just been fitted and still having problems - mostly drag after release of brake pedal. My thoughts are that your pads are disintigrating due to excessive build up of heat.

On a trip I regularly stop and check axle hubs - always the outer hubs are extremely hot and the inner side by the drop arm is quite cool. Your outer pads are breaking up and inner are intact - my guess a heat issue.

I've never had pads on any vehicle (truck or motorcycle) that overlapped the discs.

Surprised Actibrake is out of business. Guess my 5th actuator will have to be a Dexter unit or some other brand. Also on our 2nd Ford IBC and have now been sent a new brake pressure transducer to fit to master cylinder.

Don't know if any of the above helps.

Regards, John in the UK

[SRW]

Originally Posted by CrawfordGene

I'm glad you replaced all the pads (all meaning all 8 pads I hope). If I had this problem, I would be worried much more would crumble causing damage to the rotors.

Since the inner and outer pads are different they could have been made at different times on different machines using different stuff. A crumbling pad sounds like a very inferior product and may indicate a different source or material. The wear from a smaller rotor on the inner pad wouldn't bother me too much, although as more wear happened, would that ridge cause a problem. The response from Kodiak seems less that truthful.

Whether this is what happened or not, I don't know, but it seems when a previously reputable manufacturer starts outsourcing to another country they receive poor quality products until they convince their new supplier they won't accept garbage, or they'll get a new source.

I assume these are OEM brakes and another possible example of poor QC in Airstreams.

Gene

Gene:

Yup, I did replace all 8 pads.

My AS is a 2008, 28' International, and the Kodiak disc brakes were installed by Roger Williams, in Weatherford, Texas.

SRW

[Inland RV Center, In]

Originally Posted by 1939 to ....

SRW,

Have had braking problems on our 2007 25' Classic for two years now. Fourth Actibrkae has just been fitted and still having problems - mostly drag after release of brake pedal. My thoughts are that your pads are disintigrating due to excessive build up of heat.

On a trip I regularly stop and check axle hubs - always the outer hubs are extremely hot and the inner side by the drop arm is quite cool. Your outer pads are breaking up and inner are intact - my guess a heat issue.

I've never had pads on any vehicle (truck or motorcycle) that overlapped the discs.

Surprised Actibrake is out of business. Guess my 5th actuator will have to be a Dexter unit or some other brand. Also on our 2nd Ford IBC and have now been sent a new brake pressure transducer to fit to master cylinder.

Don't know if any of the above helps.

Regards, John in the UK

It appears that the replacements for the Actibrake actuator will be Carlisle.

It has the same exact specs as the Actibrake.

Airstream, at of this moment has not decided which replacement they will use.

As soon as we learn what their choice is, we will post it.

Andy

[SRW]

Originally Posted by 1939 to ....

SRW,

Have had braking problems on our 2007 25' Classic for two years now. Fourth Actibrkae has just been fitted and still having problems - mostly drag after release of brake pedal. My thoughts are that your pads are disintigrating due to excessive build up of heat.

On a trip I regularly stop and check axle hubs - always the outer hubs are extremely hot and the inner side by the drop arm is quite cool. Your outer pads are breaking up and inner are intact - my guess a heat issue.

I've never had pads on any vehicle (truck or motorcycle) that overlapped the discs.

Surprised Actibrake is out of business. Guess my 5th actuator will have to be a Dexter unit or some other brand. Also on our 2nd Ford IBC and have now been sent a new brake pressure transducer to fit to master cylinder.

Don't know if any of the above helps.

Regards, John in the UK

UK John:

I have read that Airstream has a new supplier for the brake controller on this forum, although I can't remember exactly where. The name of the new supplier was listed.

I am going on a five day trip next week and will pay close attention to heat using my handy dandy infrared sensor. I must say. however, that I did not smell anything all last year that might have been related to over heated brake pads.

SRW

[ROBERTSUNRUS]

Originally Posted by SRW

OK, I have added two photos of the "crumbling" brake pads.

The top photo, of the outside pad, shows that the pad has started to disintegrate from the top edge down. What cause it - I am not sure. Would the crumbling have continued - I am not sure.

The bottom photo, of the inside brake pad shows a wear pattern that may indicate that the pad is over sized for the size of the rotor.

Is it normal for pads to extend above the edge of the rotor - I don't know, but the fact that they do so may explain the crumbling of the outside pads.

All out side pads are worn pretty much the same. All inside pads are worn pretty much the same.

SRW

Hi, in your pictures of the brake pads, the outer one looks to have been cooked. [overheated] And the inside pad also looks to be cooked, but not as bad. [but not good] It is never acceptable to have the pad extend past the rotor; As it wears, it will try to ride up or start to wear at an angle. Buy and install ceramic pads; And make sure they fit correctly. I have read that the original pads are not very good.

[WK57ABF]

SRW : I apologise for hijack.

Inland RV Centre :

Andy - are Active Technology out of business because of the present financial climate or a faulty product? The latter would go some way to explain my two year nightmare with braking issues - 2 of our 4 actuators had burnt out electrics.

Will be interesting to see which brake actuator Airstream will fit.

Thanks, John

[lynn]

Since Airstream currently uses Dexter disc brakes they will converting to the Dexter pump.