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Old 11-28-2011, 07:31 PM   #29
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So how do these pumps work? Is it a rotary hydraulic pump or something more crude? Maybe a power steering pump driven by some sort of electric motor and a porportioning valve?

Perry
Perry,

I have never taken one completely apart, will not claim to know its inner workings, but I think this is one part not to try to build yourself.

I'll give you one concern, seal and rubber component compatability with BRAKE FLUID. One time at work, I rigged up a demonstration setup using a clear plastic line (this was demonstration only, a learning tool) and a brake fluid based master cylinder and slave cylinder but filled with ATF because it was red and visible in the tubing, the ATF swelled up the seals overnight, froze them solid.

Saftey is critical.
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Old 11-28-2011, 07:45 PM   #30
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I was not planning on building such a system but wanted to know how they worked from an engineering standpoint. There are different approaches to accomplishing the same goal. Different manufactures may have different designs with some being better than others. There is some lag because you have to have electric motors that are used to build up hydraulic pressure. The question is, does the system have pressure on standby and it is regulated with a valve or does the pressure have to build up after it sees a brake signal? The second technique being slower.

Perry
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Old 11-29-2011, 02:26 AM   #31
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I have an Actibrake master cylinder on my Air Stream . it has an hesisation in the system when I brake . Should I consider replacing it with another brand of master cylinder ? Would this help ?
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Old 11-29-2011, 02:40 AM   #32
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What brand of master cylinder does Air Stream put on their new trailers ?
GM has used a master Cylinder driven by the power steering pump for many years My Dodge diesel has the same thing. I would say the ones used on the Air Stream are similar design but driven by an electric motor .
Don
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Old 11-29-2011, 05:56 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by Don.44 View Post
What brand of master cylinder does Air Stream put on their new trailers ?
GM has used a master Cylinder driven by the power steering pump for many years My Dodge diesel has the same thing. I would say the ones used on the Air Stream are similar design but driven by an electric motor .
Don
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They don't.....

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Old 11-29-2011, 06:20 PM   #34
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I have an Actibrake master cylinder on my Air Stream . it has an hesisation in the system when I brake . Should I consider replacing it with another brand of master cylinder ? Would this help ?
Don
Don,

I think this could be a tough question, it has multiple possiblilties.

Do you have additional history on the performance, did this just develop, or has it been a long term nagging issue?

Any changes to any brake component? New controller, wiring, other?

Have you inspected the connections for power to the actuator?

Have you looked at the entire brake line system for evidence of any leaking, include examining calipers.

If Actibrake is functioning normally, I'm voting for a thourough bleeding to see if any air MIGHT be causing the delay. My .02$ states that the mere flow of Brake Fluid out of a bleed screw on this setup IS NOT a guarntee of a completely bled system.

The actuator operates and tries to create pressure, any air bubble will compress first, pump continues, pressure finally is created, but any air bubble = delayed accuation.

Proper controller, approved for Actibrake?

I think this is a start to this list, but other things are still possible, contaminated brake fluid?

Good luck.
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Old 11-29-2011, 06:26 PM   #35
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...... The question is, does the system have pressure on standby and it is regulated with a valve or does the pressure have to build up after it sees a brake signal? The second technique being slower.

Perry
Perry,

Standby pressure would effectively be causing brake drag, this would be a major heat creator, burn things up. When we drive our vehicles, we are taught not to rest our foot on the brakes, that creates pressure in the lines and would also cause brake drag and heat, excessive wear.

I have a failed Actibrake, maybe someday, I'll put a hack saw to the case, open it up and see what is behind the curtain.

Regards,

Gary
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Old 11-29-2011, 07:11 PM   #36
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I converted my 60 tradewind to disc's using a Prodigy brake controller, a Titan Brake-rite actuator and Kodiak disc brakes. We have about 20,000 miles on that setup with no problems.
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Old 11-29-2011, 07:14 PM   #37
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Standby pressure should not apply brakes unless the proportioning valve was bad.

Perry
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Old 11-29-2011, 07:31 PM   #38
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Perry,

Standby pressure would effectively be causing brake drag, this would be a major heat creator, burn things up. When we drive our vehicles, we are taught not to rest our foot on the brakes, that creates pressure in the lines and would also cause brake drag and heat, excessive wear.

I have a failed Actibrake, maybe someday, I'll put a hack saw to the case, open it up and see what is behind the curtain.

Regards,

Gary
I think what Perry is talking about is a system like GM's hydroboost of yesteryear. An electric pump pressurized fluid in a cylinder closed off from the brake lines and calipers. This stored pressure applied the brakes instantly upon an electrical signal when the pedal was applied. The pump simply kept the cylinder charged.

The system used for trailers (our ASes anyway) do not utilize stored pressurized fluid. They must start the motor, pump, pressurize the fluid and apply the brakes. That's why we have apply lag.
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Old 11-29-2011, 07:33 PM   #39
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Standby pressure should not apply brakes unless the proportioning valve was bad.

Perry
Not a proportioning valve. All they do is properly proportion the front and rear brakes on a car or truck. Like 60% of apply pressure to the rear and 40% to the front.
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Old 11-29-2011, 07:59 PM   #40
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A proportional valve that has an analog input from the brake controller that sends pressure to the wheel calipers as opposed to a proportioning valve that regulates brake application between the front and rear brakes of a car. I would think a system that has to pump up to pressure would be slow.

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Old 11-29-2011, 08:10 PM   #41
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A proportional valve that has an analog input from the brake controller that sends pressure to the wheel calipers as opposed to a proportioning valve that regulates brake application between the front and rear brakes of a car. I would think a system that has to pump up to pressure would be slow.

Perry
Gotcha. We always just called them apply valves.
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Old 11-30-2011, 10:34 AM   #42
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Not a proportioning valve. All they do is properly proportion the front and rear brakes on a car or truck. Like 60% of applied pressure to the rear and 40% to the front.
It's the right idea, but doesn't it apply more to the front?
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