Brake Controllers - Prodigy and More... - Page 5

**jcanavera** · 09-12-2006, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 68 Overlander

...Wait, there's more! Hang in there until the first of the year and the new Jordan Ultima "Plus" might be out and it solves ALL problems! We will announce it as soon as we have firm information. We are Jordan Research's largest distributor, as far as we know.

I know I sort of held my breath when I made the jump to a Jordan, but in hindsight it was one of the best things I have ever done. I know that when I bought my Classic, the owner of my local dealership did the test tow and was so impressed with the performance of the Jordan that he told his parts guy to start stocking and installing this unit also.

I did my own installation and found that it was a snap. It's the best controller I have ever used.

Jack

bhayden · 09-12-2006, 02:41 PM

Trailer Brakes!!!!
Trailer Brakes!!!!

I watched the Lucy movie a few months back while we were in the Airstream. Had a chance to finally see the Robin Williams RV movie while traveling in one of British Airways " Boeing built Airstream's last month. Wasn't Diablo Pass the same one they tried to go over in the Long Long Trailer? I'm sure there were other direct take offs as well.

Many people have reported the problem with the Prodigy on constant velocity braking, many others have reported that their units apply the trailer braking required. So I suspect that with proper adjustment all is good and since the situations are rare to begin with it shouldn't be nearly as much fiddling as I have to do with the Hoppy.

Now that you've jogged my memory I do believe there was a resistor unit under the hood with the trailer brakes for the horse trailer my folks pulled with the old Pontiac Safari wagon. However, I believe you could also fine tune the braking by turning the knob on the front of the controller; the same knob that moved sideways with the braking.

I didn't realize it tied into the master cylinder but I don't see why the ABS would be an issue with a controller sensing hydraulic pressure. It may deactivate the trailer brakes at the same time the TV brakes are but that could be filtered out pretty easily. Or not if that results in safer braking.

The system that I had on my Dodge Charger and another horse trailer was different. It used the hydraulic pressure from the car to apply the trailer brakes. There was a separate master cylinder on the trailer and the coupling with the car was a piston arrangement with a hydraulic hose attachment. It was tied into the rear brake hydraulic system. All said and done it was a very good system. A bail on the trailers master cylinder engaged the trailer brakes when parked. Something you don't get with electric brakes and service was just standard Ford brake parts. No magnets to go bad or backing plates to replace.

-Bernie

Leipper · 09-12-2006, 06:36 PM

There's a good discussion over at RV.Net. One post notes that Jordon sold out to Camco. Don't know how well Camco will keep up the brand but there are a lot of very happy Jordon controller users out there (as seen in this thread!)

There was also a note that the Hensley controller used a hydraulic tap to sense brake need. One nice feature seems to be the remote panic button.

Sens-a-BRAKE is an example of the pedal pressure sensing type.

You can still find some vintage Airstreams with hydraulic actuators that were powered by a hydraulic line off the vehicle brake system. Those went out in the 60's I think.

Hydraulic disk brakes controlled by a standard electric controller and powered by the tow vehicle engine vacuum were available around 1980 +/- 5 years or so.

The new disk brake controllers use electricly powered hydraulic pumps and a computer to controll it. This means all they need from the tow vehicle is a voltage proportional to brake need, not a current. And they don't need any pulsing or other high frequency current manipulations like sometimes used to improve magnetic brake efficiency.

Constant speed braking is not a recommended practice. Very bad on brakes.

What I get about the ABS systems is that it is easy to mess up their detection of braking by tapping the hydraulic lines. That is why any modern brake controller that senses hydraulic brake pressure has to be very careful not to mislead the ABS.

Then there's Airstream's inertia sensing anti-sway through selective braking experiment. I think somebody could write an interesting book on the techniques and history of this stuff.

I wonder if the helper wheel on the tongue of Lucy's trailer had brakes? Probably not.

wkerfoot · 09-12-2006, 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leipper

...
You can still find some vintage Airstreams with hydraulic actuators that were powered by a hydraulic line off the vehicle brake system. Those went out in the 60's I think. ...

Bryan,

If you are referring to the brake controller which tapped into the hydraulic system, the period is in the 1970's. I purchased one for my PowerWagon in about 1974.

Bill

68 Overlander · 09-12-2006, 07:46 PM

That was the last era. They didn't bow out due to ABS, it was liability, it really was. ABS plays a part but came later. Brakesmart technology is right on time but I would not want to pay their product liability bill. Ford, who is the only OEM offering a system is in a better position because they have OEM protection. Like mentioned earlier, I'm surprised other didn't follow suit. For what its worth, Ford uses a Tekonsha engineered system and Jordan was asked to contribute as well but didn't. Yes, Camco now owns Jordan Research including the name, products and all. I have spoken at length with them and the 2020 is stopped in favor of redesigning to fit ALL vehicles with no special brackets.
I think Bryan makes some great points except brake controls that use the brake light switch will always be inferior to me because there is no good way to measure weight. Adjusting gain is a guessing game that many people get used but will not cover all situations. The accelerometer the Prodigy uses is better than time based, or pendulum but not as good as pedal travel or pressure. I have a mile or two with them all but that only gives me experience. All of that said, I would and do own a Prodigy too as a backup.

kaulike · 09-12-2006, 09:01 PM

Hi all,

We just bought a '69 Overlander 27ft. It is about 200 miles away, and I have been planning to rent a truck with hitch & controller to drag it home. Tomorrow is the day. HOWEVER, my rental truck is now not available.

I do have access to a 3/4 ton Ford F250 that has the correct hitch, but it does not have a brake controller. They regularly tow medium-sized Caterpillar tractors with it. Specs on the F250 show that it weighs over 6000 lbs, versus the trailer at 4100. Most of the roads are 40mph or less, and I can certainly drive slow or take a different route for the 30 miles I was planning to be on the freeway---in other words, I can do the whole trip at 40-45mph.

So the question is, can I get by without the brake controller if I take it real easy?

thanks all

kaulike · 09-12-2006, 09:06 PM

Ooo, hey... here's an idea. What if I make a momentary switch to go from cig lighter to brake input on the trailer! It won't be automatic, but I can use it in a pickle.

wkerfoot · 09-12-2006, 09:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kaulike

Hi all,

We just bought a '69 Overlander 27ft. It is about 200 miles away, and I have been planning to rent a truck with hitch & controller to drag it home. Tomorrow is the day. HOWEVER, my rental truck is now not available.

I do have access to a 3/4 ton Ford F250 that has the correct hitch, but it does not have a brake controller. They regularly tow medium-sized Caterpillar tractors with it. Specs on the F250 show that it weighs over 6000 lbs, versus the trailer at 4100. Most of the roads are 40mph or less, and I can certainly drive slow or take a different route for the 30 miles I was planning to be on the freeway---in other words, I can do the whole trip at 40-45mph.

So the question is, can I get by without the brake controller if I take it real easy?

thanks all

Yes, you can, however it is not recommended. Having said that, I brought our Safari over 400 miles down I5 to Orange without an operating brake controller. Take it slow, leave plenty of room in front and try not to brake suddenly. I had a brake controller in the PowerWagon from early 1974, however in the intervening 30 years the power was disconnected and the controller did not work. My main concern was the grade into Castaic, but I took it slow and made no sudden moves.

Do you have any experience towing?

Bill

herrgirdner · 09-12-2006, 09:09 PM

I believe that most state laws require that towed trailers over a certain weight have brakes. In case of an accident, it might invalidate your insurance if you don't have brakes, not to mention the frown on Smokie Bear's face.
regards

**wahoonc** · 09-12-2006, 09:14 PM

I had to tow my 80 Airstream home sans brakes, BUT I was towing with a CC dually that probably weighed as much if not more than the Airstream. It can be done but is not reccomended.

Aaron

FreshAir · 09-12-2006, 09:14 PM

My opinion is that the truck's brakes should be adequate if the brakes are in good repair. Your trailer is not loaded with your camping gear to which you then will definitely need the controller. Also I am aware that your Northern California roads can have some hills that will 'test' your stopping ability. If the truck is capable of transporting tractors tractors safely go for it. I do not plan to be on your roads in the near future.
Neil

kaulike · 09-12-2006, 09:16 PM

Uh oh: from the Calif. DMV web site:

In California, brakes are required on any trailer coach or camp trailer having a gross weight of 1500 lbs. or more.

I do have some experience with trailers, but it was quite a long time ago. I think I could probably make it safely, but the note about state laws and invalid insurance is a clincher.

Is there such a thing as a portable brake controller that I could hook up to the truck without one?

borisnovas · 09-12-2006, 09:25 PM

I would be dead almost a year now if I had not had the ability to stop my trailer- As an anchor is to a ship in the ocean; the ability to drag your trailer
down the highway will straighten you out as straight as an arrow in two seconds- 'nuff said-

TIMEMACHINE · 09-12-2006, 09:27 PM

Only one answer, spend $100 and get a brake controller. If the F250 is not too old there is already a wire harness that the controller can be plugged into without cutting or splicing if you use an adapter which is about $15. Prodigy makes a truck specific adapter for the F250. Installation is about 10 minutes. The contrller can be easily removed after the tow job.

Also, besides your own safety, herrgirder is right, the liability if something goes wrong could be disasterous.

John