Journey with Confidence RV GPS App RV Trip Planner RV LIFE Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Take a Speed Test Free 7 Day Trial ×
 


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 04-01-2012, 01:54 PM   #1
2 Rivet Member
 
2010 16' Sport
Houston , Texas
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 21
Brake activation blows fuse

We have a 2010 Sport that was bought in Texas and is now here in Scotland, UK.

As part of the conversion, to be used in the UK, we had the tail lights changed to EU complaints ones (we bought from Airstream in Tebay, UK) and had a good 2011. The first road trip of 2012, this weekend was cut short as we noticed the indicator buzzer was not sounding (this is needed in the UK to show the indicators are signalling).

Investigation showed that a fuse between Prodigy brake controller and the tow bar connection was blown. Replaced fuse, running lights and indicators work fine, however as I applied brakes.....fuse blows.

Not entirely sure how wiring from tow hitch to caravan is wired, however, any pointers as to what might be causing fuse to blow when activating brakes is appreciated.

Fuse is 20 Amp.

Dave
davinho is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2012, 03:17 PM   #2
Master of Universe
 
Gene's Avatar
 
2008 25' Safari FB SE
Grand Junction , Colorado
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 12,702
Brake lights and turn signals may use a common bulb with a dual filament. There are two hot contacts, one for each circuit. There are other ways of doing this with one bulb, but this is one of them.

The indicator buzzer could have been wired incorrectly too.

A short in the bulb or socket could be a problem. If you have LED's, I don't know how they are wired.

Gene
Gene is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2012, 09:59 PM   #3
Rivet Master
 
JFScheck's Avatar
 
2020 30' Classic
Derwood , Maryland
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,515
Images: 37
Any chance you can get a local auto repair individual to check out the voltage applied and take resistance measurements compared between to the sets of lights (right side & left side) and see if they are similar or not?
__________________
John "JFScheck" Scheck
2020 30’ Airstream Classic
**I Love U.S.A.**
JFScheck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2012, 02:42 PM   #4
2 Rivet Member
 
2010 16' Sport
Houston , Texas
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 21
Okay, so it's the weekend and here's what I am going to try:

1. Buzz out the tow wiring on the truck and make sure there are no shorts.
2. Disconnect the brake controller and connect the tow cable to the trailer and check to see if the lights all come on, especially the brake lights when I activate the brake. This way I eliminate that the brake lights are causing the problem.
3. Reconnect the brake controller.
4. Check for any obvious shorts on the connector between the tow harness and the trailer, there is a little corrosion so I will change the connector block and put in a water tight box.

Anything else?
davinho is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2012, 02:57 PM   #5
3 Rivet Member
 
Erik Olson's Avatar
 
1974 29' Ambassador
CONCORD , North Carolina
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 192
Images: 23
Send a message via Skype™ to Erik Olson
I don't want to oversimplify your problem, but I was blowing the 15A Draw-Tite brake control fuse that was installed in my tow vehicle on a trip a few weeks ago. Until I thought about what had changed since the last trip, I was at a total loss.

Turns out we had taken out the trailer battery for winterizing and the battery terminal cables, which were just hanging loose in the battery compartment, had crossed during transit. Lucky for us, there was a 15A fuse at the brake controller to take the fall, otherwise we may have damaged a lot more.

Anyway, look for crossed wires and anywhere your situation may have changed before you really pull your hair out.
__________________
Erik Olson
1974 Ambassador 29' Ohana
www.overlandfilmstudios.com
Erik Olson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2012, 03:06 PM   #6
2 Rivet Member
 
2010 16' Sport
Houston , Texas
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 21
Erik,

I agree that's it's probably something simple and I'll probably kick myself when I find out.

Thanks!
davinho is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2012, 03:43 PM   #7
Rivet Master
Airstream Dealer
 
Inland RV Center, In's Avatar
 
Corona , California
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 16,497
Images: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by davestewart2 View Post
We have a 2010 Sport that was bought in Texas and is now here in Scotland, UK.

As part of the conversion, to be used in the UK, we had the tail lights changed to EU complaints ones (we bought from Airstream in Tebay, UK) and had a good 2011. The first road trip of 2012, this weekend was cut short as we noticed the indicator buzzer was not sounding (this is needed in the UK to show the indicators are signalling).

Investigation showed that a fuse between Prodigy brake controller and the tow bar connection was blown. Replaced fuse, running lights and indicators work fine, however as I applied brakes.....fuse blows.

Not entirely sure how wiring from tow hitch to caravan is wired, however, any pointers as to what might be causing fuse to blow when activating brakes is appreciated.

Fuse is 20 Amp.

Dave
DO NOT, ever, ever, ever, fuse the brake circuit.

It's better to burn up wiring should there be a real dead short, as opposed to taking a risk of a fuse blowing when you least expect it to, and find you have ZERO brakes.

Andy
__________________
Andy Rogozinski
Inland RV Center
Corona, CA
Inland RV Center, In is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2012, 03:52 PM   #8
Site Team
 
azflycaster's Avatar

 
2002 25' Safari
Dewey , Arizona
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 15,615
Images: 62
Blog Entries: 1
Just to clear something up for me, is it the brake lights that are failing or the brakes themselves. These are two different circuits from the TV to the trailer. Knowing which is failing would help diagnose the problem.
__________________

Richard

Wally Byam Airstream Club 7513
azflycaster is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2012, 05:03 PM   #9
Rivet Master
 
Jim Flower's Avatar
 
2012 30' International
1997 25' Safari
1967 20' Globetrotter
Burlington , Ontario
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,499
Quote:
Originally Posted by davestewart2
Okay, so it's the weekend and here's what I am going to try:

1. Buzz out the tow wiring on the truck and make sure there are no shorts.
2. Disconnect the brake controller and connect the tow cable to the trailer and check to see if the lights all come on, especially the brake lights when I activate the brake. This way I eliminate that the brake lights are causing the problem.
3. Reconnect the brake controller.
4. Check for any obvious shorts on the connector between the tow harness and the trailer, there is a little corrosion so I will change the connector block and put in a water tight box.

Anything else?
I hope you are in the NW where the place is over run with distilleries since these issues can be challenging. I had them twice. First time was a short to the frame between the controller and the brake switch. Second was a bad bulb in the vehicle. I suppose if you have determined the vehicle is ok, it could be a trailer bulb.
__________________
Jim
Jim Flower is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2012, 01:27 PM   #10
2 Rivet Member
 
2010 16' Sport
Houston , Texas
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 21
Fuse Blowing

Quote:
Originally Posted by azflycaster View Post
Just to clear something up for me, is it the brake lights that are failing or the brakes themselves. These are two different circuits from the TV to the trailer. Knowing which is failing would help diagnose the problem.
For now I am going to say that its the 'lights' as when I press the brake pedal in the TV...Pop! I've ordered some fuses and bulbs, am going to take the bulbs out and try again, replacing one at a time to see where the short might be.
davinho is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2012, 01:37 PM   #11
Site Team
 
azflycaster's Avatar

 
2002 25' Safari
Dewey , Arizona
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 15,615
Images: 62
Blog Entries: 1
You can apply the trailer brakes manually with the brake controller which should not turn on the brake lights. I can do that with my Prodigy Controller. If it is just the brake lights and you have LEDs, they are polarity sensitive and might be wired incorrectly.
__________________

Richard

Wally Byam Airstream Club 7513
azflycaster is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2012, 02:02 PM   #12
Rivet Master
Airstream Dealer
 
Inland RV Center, In's Avatar
 
Corona , California
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 16,497
Images: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by azflycaster View Post
You can apply the trailer brakes manually with the brake controller which should not turn on the brake lights. I can do that with my Prodigy Controller. If it is just the brake lights and you have LEDs, they are polarity sensitive and might be wired incorrectly.
Electric trailer brake controllers are supposed to be wired so that should you apply trailer brakes only, the brake light should also come on, warning a driver behind the trailer that your slowing down.

Andy
__________________
Andy Rogozinski
Inland RV Center
Corona, CA
Inland RV Center, In is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2012, 03:23 PM   #13
3 Rivet Member
 
WK57ABF's Avatar
 
2007 25' Classic
kendal , cumbria, UK
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 213
Images: 4
Hi Dave,

Sounds as if your brake controller is wired wrong - there should not be a fuse between your brake controller and the 7-way socket on your tow vehicle. It looks as though your auto-electician has used the blue wire from the brake controller (which operates the brakes) when converting your trailer from the two filament US system to the UK three filament system (stop, turn, taillight).

We are at Killin, Stirlingshire in a couple of weeks and then in the Findhorn Bay area, so keep in touch if you don't sort it and need any further help.

John in the UK
WK57ABF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2012, 02:15 PM   #14
2 Rivet Member
 
2010 16' Sport
Houston , Texas
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by WK57ABF
Hi Dave,

Sounds as if your brake controller is wired wrong - there should not be a fuse between your brake controller and the 7-way socket on your tow vehicle. It looks as though your auto-electician has used the blue wire from the brake controller (which operates the brakes) when converting your trailer from the two filament US system to the UK three filament system (stop, turn, taillight).

We are at Killin, Stirlingshire in a couple of weeks and then in the Findhorn Bay area, so keep in touch if you don't sort it and need any further help.

John in the UK
John,

Thanks for the PM!

I have a device that I can stick in the fuse socket, as I am now curious as to how much current this is drawing.....maybe a short is causing excessive current draw? Any idea how much is ' normal'?

Dave
davinho is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2012, 03:38 AM   #15
3 Rivet Member
 
WK57ABF's Avatar
 
2007 25' Classic
kendal , cumbria, UK
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 213
Images: 4
Dave,

There is only one fuse on the brake controller and that is on the black feed to the controller which is uaually a 20 or 30 amp circuit breaker.

Check that the blue wire from the brake controller, 14 gauge (20 amp) for a single axle, goes straight to the brakes with no other connections or fuse in that line.

Don't know if you have changed the trailer end 7 blade US plug for a UK round pin plug but the wiring should be :

left turn - red
right turn - brown
ground - white
charge wire - black
running lights - green
brakes - blue

Now the most important part of the US to UK conversion - a separate wire will have to be run from the socket (trailer end) to the stop lights.

In our trailer rear light cluster, we disconnected the centre back-up light (clear lens) and fitted an amber lens and used that llight for turn signals. The other two red lenses were used for running and stop lights.

I suspect that your electrician is not familiar with the US two bulb system and in converting to our 3 bulb system has in some way used the blue brake wire to operate bulbs.

I know how to convert to UK wiring but find it difficult to put down on paper!!!

Incidentally, is your ex-electrician/light convertion guy the infamous Mr. R...., who is now wanted by the police?

John in the UK
WK57ABF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2012, 01:28 PM   #16
2 Rivet Member
 
2010 16' Sport
Houston , Texas
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by WK57ABF
Dave,

There is only one fuse on the brake controller and that is on the black feed to the controller which is uaually a 20 or 30 amp circuit breaker.

Check that the blue wire from the brake controller, 14 gauge (20 amp) for a single axle, goes straight to the brakes with no other connections or fuse in that line.

Don't know if you have changed the trailer end 7 blade US plug for a UK round pin plug but the wiring should be :

left turn - red
right turn - brown
ground - white
charge wire - black
running lights - green
brakes - blue

Now the most important part of the US to UK conversion - a separate wire will have to be run from the socket (trailer end) to the stop lights.

In our trailer rear light cluster, we disconnected the centre back-up light (clear lens) and fitted an amber lens and used that llight for turn signals. The other two red lenses were used for running and stop lights.

I suspect that your electrician is not familiar with the US two bulb system and in converting to our 3 bulb system has in some way used the blue brake wire to operate bulbs.

I know how to convert to UK wiring but find it difficult to put down on paper!!!

Incidentally, is your ex-electrician/light convertion guy the infamous Mr. R...., who is now wanted by the police?

John in the UK
John,

I am going to check which wire the fuse is in this weekend.

The auto reset circuit breaker is in place from the battery to the brake controller, so that's fine. There is also another wire which has appeared to make turn and signal ( not explaining this well) and the indicators, etc are fine.

The conversion guy is as you state above......say no more, am only glad we didn't pay too much to him.

Thanks again John......incidentally a, when do you reckon you'll be up at Findhorn? We are in Insch which is not that far away.....

Cheers,

Dave (07557 009649)
davinho is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2012, 02:00 PM   #17
Moderator dude
 
Action's Avatar

 
1966 26' Overlander
Phoenix , Arizona
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 7,501
Images: 13
You state the circuit has a 20 amp fuse protection. Normal current draw would be about 1/2 to 2/3 of that.

I suspect you have a hot circuit (blue wire as stated above) that is grounded (earth) after the brake light switch and before it gets to the load. (the light or lights) When the brake pedal or controller actuates the brake light switch and circuit the current goes to the least resistance. To ground (or earth) instead of the lights.

Look for a cut wire (Red or brown) at the bulb socket from the old 2 lite system touching ground. Or the blue wire swapped for the white wire.

Depending on the wire harness running a seperate wire may be easier than using the existing wire harness.


>>>>>Action
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Action

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Action
__________________
1966 Mercury Park Lane 4 DR Breezeway 410 4V, C-6, 2.80 - Streamless.
1966 Lincoln 4 door Convertible 462 4V 1971 Ford LTD Convertible 429 4V Phoenix ~ Yeah it's hot however it's a dry heat!
Action is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2012, 02:43 PM   #18
Rivet Master
 
1974 Argosy 20
2014 20' Flying Cloud
Kooskia , Idaho
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 4,591
Quote:
Originally Posted by davestewart2 View Post
John,

Thanks for the PM!

I have a device that I can stick in the fuse socket, as I am now curious as to how much current this is drawing.....maybe a short is causing excessive current draw? Any idea how much is ' normal'?

Dave
Electric brakes take about 3 to 3.5 amps per wheel. It is a good way to know if all the electric parts of the brakes are working to measure the current. Single axle should be around 6-7 amps, double around 12-14 amps.
idroba is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2012, 03:03 PM   #19
Moderator dude
 
Action's Avatar

 
1966 26' Overlander
Phoenix , Arizona
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 7,501
Images: 13
Please correct me if I am wrong, I believe the brake (indicator) lights and the electric brake feed to operate the electric brakes are two seperate circuits.Each with their own circuit protection.

>>>>>>>>Action
__________________
1966 Mercury Park Lane 4 DR Breezeway 410 4V, C-6, 2.80 - Streamless.
1966 Lincoln 4 door Convertible 462 4V 1971 Ford LTD Convertible 429 4V Phoenix ~ Yeah it's hot however it's a dry heat!
Action is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2012, 12:50 PM   #20
2 Rivet Member
 
2010 16' Sport
Houston , Texas
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 21
Latest and greatest:

- Checked the break lights and running light and they all work okay.
- Disconnected the blue wire (brake on AS) activated brake pedal in Tow Vehicle (Fuse blows).

- Haven't managed to determine which line the fuse is in yet as it was snowing a good part of the weekend and freezing cold.
davinho is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
DirecLink Brake controller... Mexray Brakes & Brake Controllers 123 01-03-2016 08:58 AM
Dexter brake shoes....a problem. ROBERT CROSS Brakes & Brake Controllers 34 07-04-2012 10:51 AM
Third brake light livexl Classic Motorhomes 5 05-31-2012 07:28 AM
OEM brake actuator? 1958 Traveler cuyeda Brakes & Brake Controllers 26 03-26-2012 08:42 PM
Need help immediately on brake hose part mumbers dadstoy Classic Motorhomes 3 03-23-2012 05:09 PM


Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by the Airstream, Inc. or any of its affiliates. Airstream is a registered trademark of Airstream Inc. All rights reserved. Airstream trademark used under license to Social Knowledge LLC.



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:07 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.