Why Michelin tires?

[runnersg]

Originally Posted by Action

In my opinion (which is about worthless unless you read this on the internet. Then it is factual because everything on the internet is true)

It is a higher end tire that you will pay a premium to obtain
If you are operating a high end travel trailer, high end tires may be the match you seek.
As far as I know none of the Michelin tires are designed for trailers - they are designed either as passenger car tires or light truck tires
As a LT tire the load capacity may be greater
You may be able to drive continuously at speeds greater than 65 mph - unlike a ST tire
You may be able to abuse them to a greater degree than a lower end tire
There may be some ego involved in owning a set

Typically owners will up grade to a larger diameter rim size when replacing tires as well which allows the user to have greater load capacity or a greater margin of reserve load capacity.

And in the arena of damage to a trailer, (with some restrictions) greater load capacity may reduce the possibility of a major tire event causing damage to the coach.

Individual results may vary
Some assembly required
Batteries not included if you get TPMS

>>>>>>>>>>>>Action

I have an Eddie Bauer and it came standard with Michelins.... Airstream must think they are trailer tires.

[ShinyPete]

I have avoided commenting on the tire debate threads for most of my 3ish years in AF. Too controversial.

However, our Pete's GYMs are right at 3yrs old (2413 build dates), rarely lose air from the 65 lb AS recommended pressure for our 27fb (6500 lbs wet), live in the pole barn covered when not rolling, and have rolled maybe 5000 miles with no issues.

I'm interested in better tires certainly if they will work. I've waited for the new Michelin P-rated 15" XLs and apparently they are now available. So the other day I asked a local 2nd generation tire man(two family stores) that I trust about ordering me a set (do a good bit of business with him) and he said no.

No, as in, he won't mount P-XLs nor LTs on our AS. He said I'll sell you the best STs I can find (may have Been Maxis actually), but I'll only put STs on your coach. Hmmm well now that is interesting.....

Anyone else had this discussion with their tire dealer? I'm just curious not trying to stir a huge debate.


Sent from my iPhone using Airstream Forums

[OTRA15]

Originally Posted by ShinyPete

. . .
Anyone else had this discussion with their tire dealer? I'm just curious not trying to stir a huge debate.

Too late, the flood gates are now officially open!

[MOS]

where is the build date on GYM tires ?

[CapriRacer]

Originally Posted by ShinyPete

I have avoided commenting on the tire debate threads for most of my 3ish years in AF. Too controversial.

However, our Pete's GYMs are right at 3yrs old (2413 build dates), rarely lose air from the 65 lb AS recommended pressure for our 27fb (6500 lbs wet), live in the pole barn covered when not rolling, and have rolled maybe 5000 miles with no issues.

I'm interested in better tires certainly if they will work. I've waited for the new Michelin P-rated 15" XLs and apparently they are now available. So the other day I asked a local 2nd generation tire man(two family stores) that I trust about ordering me a set (do a good bit of business with him) and he said no.

No, as in, he won't mount P-XLs nor LTs on our AS. He said I'll sell you the best STs I can find (may have Been Maxis actually), but I'll only put STs on your coach. Hmmm well now that is interesting.....

Anyone else had this discussion with their tire dealer? I'm just curious not trying to stir a huge debate.


Sent from my iPhone using Airstream Forums

Yes.

I have a homemade race car trailer that has used P215/75R14 Passenger Car tires since the day I bought it (as part of the race car purchase.) The trailer has no suspension - as in the tires are the only thing that flexes. I back calculated what pressure I would need and came up with somewhere about 20 psi - I use 25 psi. Admittedly, I don't put many miles on the trailer as all the tows were short distances - a couple hundred miles at most!

When I went to order tires for the trailer (that size isn't normally stocked!), I was informed that because it was for a trailer, not only would they not mount the tires directly on the trailer, they wouldn't even order the tires for me - that the only tire appropriate for a trailer is an ST tire.

I didn't bother to argue with the guy. I just asked if I brought in wheels with tires on them - and new tires to be exchanged, would he do that? He said he would, so I ordered tires from Tire Rack and did the exchange 2 at a time.

So there are ways around this problem.

But I would caution everyone to completely do your homework before you do this. There are situations where you can get yourself into trouble.

My personal recommendation is to weigh your trailer fully loaded - even if you are going to use the size that came on the trailer. It is known that some trailer manufacturers have not done a good job of sizing tires for their trailer. I don't know if Airstream is one of those or not. It is important that you know what the loads on the individual tires are. Be sure to account for side to side and front to rear variation Tires on a trailer are not evenly loaded!

[Rich Jenkins]

Originally Posted by MOS

where is the build date on GYM tires ?

Here ya go:

http://www.tirebuyer.com/education/h...-of-your-tires

"The first two digits are the week of manufacture, and the last two digits are the year. For example, if the last four digits of the DOT code are 0203, that means that the tire was manufactured during the second week of the year 2003."

[switz]

Airstream is installing the current model of the 16" Michelin LT225/75R16/E LTX M/S2 tires on 16" SenDel To3-66655T wheels on both the Pendleton and all Classics since 2015. These are their two heaviest trailers now.

That is what I retrofitted to our 2014 31' Classic. In the 2014 and earlier models of The Eddie Bauer models, they had these same tires and wheels as well.

What I read here on the forum are folks experience. Only two or three posters are real tire experts that often chime in with important details concerning tire loads etc.

Use what tires or whatever you want. It is your trailer after all. We have all made choices and get to live with the results.

[jcanavera]

Many tire dealers will not mount any tire other than a ST tire on trailers. I really believe it is because of one of two reasons. One is warranty and possibly an agreement with the manufacturer not to sell or mount tires on a class of vehicle that they weren't designed for.

Since we know that Airstream and some 5th wheel manufacturers are using the 16" Michelin LT tire on some models there must be some implicit understanding with Michelin. I can't see these manufacturers sending trailers out the door with tires that Michelin wouldn't stand behind.

Also keep in mind than other than road hazard damage, we have folks who now have at least 6 years of experience with their Michelin's. If this tire wasn't up to the task, we truly would have started seeing some reports by now.

At this point I'm into year 4 with my set and have surpassed the life I got from my Marathons and Maxxis ST tires.

At this point I think I'm very comfortable with the safety and performance on the 16" LT tires. I'm not sure however how large the universe is of those going with the P rated Michelin offering. I think we may need a few more years of feedback before we reach the level of comfort that we see with the 16's.

Jack

[Action]

Originally Posted by CapriRacer

But I would caution everyone to completely do your homework before you do this. There are situations where you can get yourself into trouble.

My personal recommendation is to weigh your trailer fully loaded - even if you are going to use the size that came on the trailer. It is known that some trailer manufacturers have not done a good job of sizing tires for their trailer. I don't know if Airstream is one of those or not. It is important that you know what the loads on the individual tires are. Be sure to account for side to side and front to rear variation Tires on a trailer are not evenly loaded!

In 1997 I bought a new 27' boat that weighed dry North of 6000 pounds. The dual axle trailer the dealer matched to the boat was rated well for the length and the load of the boat. However the combined load rating of the tires were rated for about 300 pounds greater that the dry weight of the total load of boat and trailer. (I weighed after taking delivery at some distance) Since the dealer was about 700 miles from my home I lost the first tire on the way to my home. No damage other than the tire and the dealer paid for everything. In the next 22 months 4 tires failed. It had a spare. The tire company was out of the NE and shipped tires under warranty however I discovered the load margin wasn't good. The biggest deal was the tires were on 14" rims and that was done for easier unloading/loading at the boat ramp. (Lowered trailer)

I believe Airstrem does better than that. And as stated above, being informed as to what you have and how it will be used goes a long way to having a better camping experience. No one want to handle a tire issue when traveling.

As to the Michelins on an EB Airstream. That is high end of the high end. Not much competition and if there is, the market place demands the high end everything. Airstream is listening. And I bet on the least expensive trailers, AS will be in a price slot with some one else. High end tires are not a consideration when loosing market share. (Or breaking into new markets) So if a tire is rated to to the anticipated load and the consumer is price sensitive and does not demand high end ....... in the case of tires expect round, black and cheap. And the first 2 are optional.

>>>>>>>>>>Action

[jcanavera]

Originally Posted by Action

As to the Michelins on an EB Airstream. That is high end of the high end. Not much competition and if there is, the market place demands the high end everything. Airstream is listening.
>>>>>>>>>>Action

I don't believe however, that Airstream was looking high end initially when the EB was released. If you go back previous to that trailer, the folks on this forum had been complaining about ST tire failures and Airstream was watching and listening. It was folks here who started making the switch out and were using Michelin LT's as the tire of choice that were the innovators in this movement. I sincerely believe that the EB was the test bed that Airstream used to verify in their minds that there was an LT tire out there that could be an adequate or superior substitute to ST's.

For all intents the continued migration by those of us to LT's here actually fueled Airstream's interest in the LT tire beyond the Eddie Bauer. What they saw was dissatisfaction that their premium product was less than premium if the ST tires were perceived as marginal by existing and future customers. In essence the trailer line has evolved to include the Michelin LT as the standard tire on their high end trailers because many of us now expect it.

What we need to see in the future is that the LT become the standard for them on most of the product line. That truly will put them in a different class in the towing community, moving them away from the limitations that an ST tire has.

Jack

[Phoenix]

JCanavera, well stated!

I believe the early evaluation of 16" wheels and LT tires was initiated by AirForums member Bob Thompson, circa 2005.

For a short history lesson, see discussion thread: Tires... Tires... Tires...

[Dexterpix]

It is funny to me that people are using the reasoning that "Airstream is mounting Michelin's on their heaviest trailers" so it must be the right thing to do? Didn't the same people just argue that Airstream didn't know what they were doing when they put GYM ST tires on their trailers? Funny Uh. Now Airstream has figured it out but only on 2 models of trailers?

Joe D

[first choice]

The tire issues reported seem to come from members in the hot States. Not too much heard from the Northern States and Canada. I hate operating anything at it's maximum such as 65 MPH. Found Cooper Tires make a trailer tire under the name of " Hercules" that has a much higher Speed Rating and has a network of dealers. This tire has performed very well on a couple of recent trailers for me,BUT I operate in Canada and as far south as Tennessee. Maybe this will help some,,,,, Good luck

[TheCabin]

As far as AS making thoughtful technical decisions on tires, all that they need to do is talk with Michelin Technical in Greenville, SC. If a formal joint memo would then appear making it clear what can be used I think we would all quickly react. Isn't this the way the business sector claims that they can work together and make better and faster decisions than those resulting from being dragged kicking and screaming by the government? Where is the ever popular spirit of Corporate Responsibility being displayed by AS?

[Soyboy]

Dexterpix - LOL. I think you hit the nail on the head. When I am working on my trailer fixing things that shouldn't need to be fixed, I often wonder of AS knows or cares what it is doing!

[Action]

Originally Posted by TheCabin

Where is the ever popular spirit of Corporate Responsibility being displayed by AS?

Follow the money. When it affects sales, changes occur. The market place has always ruled!

Otherwise the "corporate responsibility" is to put the minimum standard in place. And then tell you through the owner's manual of your responsibility.

>>>>>>>>Action

[switz]

Airstream only needs tires to get the trailer down the assembly line. When it is "released from production", the dealer's line of credit is charged for the trailer and the dealer is now the proud owner of inferior tires. He hopes they get the trailer to the dealership where the worry is transferred to the typical unaware buyer.

Thus the choice for the cheapest Chinese made tires even with the GoodYear name. Of course the name may imply the expected life of the tire.

[awiegel]

I have one of the single axle trailers, a 22 ft FBR. Great trailer, very maneuverable, but that is a lot of weight on two tires.

On this last trip, one of the GYMs separated on a curve at freeway speed near Roseburg Oregon. Lots of blue smoke and unneeded excitement. Got it changed OK, and no damage to the trailer thankfully. But when I went to the tire shop, I sure got an earful about all the failed GYMs they see. I had them take off the other one. The tread was visibly spreading apart in the middle. An early warning a suppose. I replaced both with what I could get at the time, Les Schwab specials, but load range E instead of D.

After spending more time than I would like reading everything on this forum, some of it twice, I have searched out the 16 inch wheels TO3SM from Sendel and found two different Michelin tires, the LTX: LT225/75R16 115/112R E which seems to be quite popular on the forum and the LT225/75R16 XPS Rib 08404 LRE. These are both 29.4 inch diameter tires, while the old 15 inch GYMs were 28.3. I will look, but suspect that I easily have the extra 1/2 inch of wheelwell capacity, even allowing for full suspension travel.

What I would like to know from those who know is what are the perceived advantages and disadvantages between these tires - ignoring price.

Thank you very much for your help,

Andrew

[xrvr]

I think the ribs are a lot more expensive.

[OTRA15]

Welcome to the forum Andrew! We have been contemplating a similar upgrade, and I will reply more fully tomorrow from home. We also have a single axle so our parameters are similar.

I have also read most of the threads on this topic, and seem to recall that the rib tires contain a warning not to operate them at high temperatures, but don't quote me.

The 20-footer thread has a number of FC20 owners who have already made the upgrade:

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f516...rs-127845.html

If you use "Search this thread" at the top there for "Sendel Michelin" the relevant posts should be easy to find. If not I will locate them manana.

Cheers,

Peter

PS we are aiming for the Michelin LTX M&S E load, for off-road and snow traction in curves and braking.