Why... Michelin discourages Trailer Use

[Ray Eklund]

Why, includes a lot of imagination. Why, opens Pandora's Box to the whims of the owner's expectations of their Michelin Tires on their Airstream. Why, also is open to speculation and this is my observation.

Michelin tires are excellent and long lasting on my Toyota's and my current Ford F350. Never an issue. When I trade my Tundra's into the dealership, the tires may be 50% worn, but the sales department wants them left on the truck. I offer each time to swap out their NEW Goodrich tires for my 'used Michelins' without success. The style of the wheel matters little to me, as each year the wheels change design.

If you sit outside your trailer and observe the multitude of Trailer and RV Traffic squeezing onto narrow parking spots... some drivers have more difficulty than others. The angles can be extreme and curbs and rocks are encountered in the process.

This is easily observed at Jackson Center when new trailer and Airstream owners are accessing a spot.

Low air pressure on one or more tires. The days of convenient Service Stations with reliable compressed air are becoming vague memories. It is time consuming going to Costco, park along side the service area to have 'nitrogen' added, if and when needed. I will shortly know in several weeks when getting the 25 foot road worthy and stocked for a busy Summer.

Parked at the Sandia Casino lot at Albuquerque, NM... RV's pulling their vehicle in tow over landscaping and curbs is not unusual, but common practice. Michelin or any other brand of tires.

I-40 west of Flagstaff, Arizona has 100 miles, more or less, of the right lane pot holes developing from 18 wheeler constant impacts. Even the passing lane is breaking down. It is almost impossible to avoid these when traveling a busy Interstate like I-40. The Arizona Department of Transportation installed many permanent signs about 'rough road for XXX miles'. Great.

These are some of my observations. You may have some of your own. Even Michelin Employees observe what you and I observe, ever day. We are more exposed to RV Parks and campsites Off the Grid and observe one or more abuses of the trailer's tires.

These issues are why Michelin does not want to cover tire damages when used on a trailer. Not that the tires cannot do the job, but the potential of hitting objects by new or just poor driving skills is much more than the company wants to be responsible.

I have said what I think. My 16" Michelin LTX tires are going to get a wide variety of use ever year. Is it the tire or the abuse brought onto themselves, the Airstream owner, to their tires. Of any brand?

[blkmagikca]

Ray, see http://www.airforums.com/forums/f438...ml#post1944589

Michelin covered the damage to my AS + replacement tire where there was no evidence of road hazard damage.

[paiceman]

blkmagikca: was it Michelin OR was it the local tire dealer, Airstream dealer of JC, that covered the issue. When I called Michelin several years ago about switching the trailer we had at the time they said that the warranty would not be in place. Curious.

[rvb]

I bought my Michelin tires for both the truck and trailer at Discount Tire and bought their tire warranty. They said they have no problem covering Michelin tires on a trailer.

[paiceman]

Rvb, not surprised our local tire dealer does the same, but his warranty claim with Michelin is interesting reading.

[Action]

Originally Posted by paiceman

blkmagikca: was it Michelin OR was it the local tire dealer, Airstream dealer of JC, that covered the issue. When I called Michelin several years ago about switching the trailer we had at the time they said that the warranty would not be in place. Curious.

Based on the letter posted in that thread it was Michelin. No one else.

With that said, Michelin did not state there was a defect or anything of that nature. (It is a liability thing) Michelin ponied up to the dollar amount for the tire and damage to the trailer not as a warranty coverage. More as a good will measure. Not that it makes a difference to the consumer. It does make a difference in a court of law.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Action

[paiceman]

Thanks

[Action]

As a reply to the OP, I assume Michelin discourages use of their tires on trailers because Michelin does not make a ST designed tire. They only make P and LT designed tires. P and LT designed tires were not designed for nor tested to meet an ST design. The ST design is specific for trailer usage.

IMO this is the only reason.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Action

[paiceman]

It's actually what the rep at headquarters told me when I called a few years ago.

[Action]

With in the last 12 months some one posted an online chat from the Michelin website. The chat conversation was the same. Michelin does not recommend their tires for trailer usage.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Action

[KJRitchie]

If Michelin offered a trailer tire they would clean up. It's an opportunity they are missing.

Kelvin

[SteveSueMac]

Originally Posted by Action

With in the last 12 months some one posted an online chat from the Michelin website. The chat conversation was the same. Michelin does not recommend their tires for trailer usage.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Action

That may have been me. I'm a Michelin 15" (p-rated) user and talked with both Airstream and Michelin before deciding to use them. Michelin doesn't recommend them for trailer use. Period.

I'm seriously considering the Goodyear Endurance (GYE) ST tire in 15" D load when I'm ready to swap out the Michelins. Not because I'm dissatisfied with the Michelins - I love them and they've treated me great for many thousands of care free miles. But I like the idea of an American made ST tire that can't possibly be worse than the Chinese GYMs that many people (myself included) hate.

I know the Michelins - even derated- have more than enough load capacity for my trailer - and I agree - if Michelins made an ST tire in 15" or 16" they would own the market. But if early adopters of the GYEs like them and see a marked improvement over GYMs, I'm in!

[Ray Eklund]

Very good ideas to work with.

Tread Separation on Michelin LTX225/75R16(E) M & S2 by blkmagikca (4-16-27)

Post #55 teagues: It's not so obvious from the formatting here, but we're looking at footnotes, and neither applies to the warranty. Footnote 2 that "...specifically excludes trailers, recreational vehicles..." refers back to the 3 year flat tire changing assistance.

Attached Michelin Limited Warranty and then to blkmagikca Post #93 that his Michelin tire and damage was covered by Michelin as customer goodwill. I would like to think that Airstream Jackson Center is... listening.
********

My experience with a 14" Marathon tire failing was... "your trailer is over loadied and caused the tire to fail".

This was when I actually weighed everything before it was put into our 2006 Safari. Even water at 8.6 pounds per gallon. Tools, food, water, clothes, etc.

My experience with Hi-Run 14" ST tires. "Your trailer is overloaded and caused the TIRES to fail."

I have never had a blowout on a vehicle tire since 1965. Other than nails puncturing a tire... nothing. But with ST tires...

The 14" Marathon was my first. Other problems were rock punctures on gravel Forest Service roads through the center tread.

I went to Maxxis and Greenball ST 14" tires, without incident or failure.

The Goodwill that Michelin did for blkmagikca is an example of a tire company that will investigate and give the consumer the benefit of doubt. This is good news for all trailer owners using Michelin products.

Costco would not remove the wheels, mount LT 16 Michelins onto my rims, onto my Airstream. But... would mount, balance the five Michelins onto the five wheels IF I mounted them... (Just in case you buy at Costco.) Other tire dealers will mount, but Costco reads the print on the side of your trailer and vehicle for 'factory specifications'.

Many of us want to, at first, blame the user for the failure of a tire on a trailer... until it is YOU or ME. The number of Airstream Forum users now using 16" Michelin tires may provide a true record of how a ST and a LT or a P tire compare to one another.

You, my fellow Beta Testers, are doing what the Tire Companies have not. That is thinking outside the norms we find ourselves and just want to improve our safety on the roads.

When did ST tires originate and why?

Had the 2017 BaseCamps been Beta Tested by YOU... there would be no discussions on this website. There is room for Cooper, Greenball, Maxxis, Goodyear and any other possible tire combination for testing. Be detailed, be honest and give your opinion.

The ST Tire maybe on its way out as Fiber Glass belted radials...

[Ray Eklund]

Wikipedia: Tire

An excellent beginning to understand what we all are dealing with. The number of tires made each year, from 450 factories, producing 1 billion tires annually... at the time this was printed. The US manufactured 170 million tires in 2015.

You can change the name of a tire... but you cannot change the quality without testing it.

[Mollysdad]

Originally Posted by KJRitchie

If Michelin offered a trailer tire they would clean up. It's an opportunity they are missing.

Kelvin

Not sure. Yes, Michelin would own the Airstream market, but these owners are a particular bunch. I'd dare say the market for GTM is not owners but manufacturers, it only has to get off the lot.
I'd say I've had at least 8 trailers of all kind, and I couldn't tell you what kind of tires came on any of them.
Even when I had a blowout in distant places, I wanted a matching tire and rim to get me home. I didn't want to spend my vacation looking for tires. Being on a motorcycle made it worse, I had to bungee the tire and rim on the bike and get it to the trailer. A lot of times in the west you don't have a choice in tire dealers. "You have a tire and rim in 15"? I'll be right there."
I did learn I'd never own another single axle trailer.

[blkmagikca]

Originally Posted by rvb

I bought my Michelin tires for both the truck and trailer at Discount Tire and bought their tire warranty. They said they have no problem covering Michelin tires on a trailer.

My TV tires (Michelin Defenders) were recently purchased at Discount Tire along with their warranty which covers road hazards. The AS tires had been purchased along with 16" wheels at JC at the same time as I had new axles installed; they do not have any enhanced warranty. When the time comes to change them (they are now almost 3 years old), I will buy them from Discount Tire and get the enhanced warranty. Discount told me that they will cover the cost of replacement of tires purchased with their enhanced warranty where they
do not have a reasonably proximity store, such as in northern New York State or in Canada - call them first and follow their instructions.

I've noticed that you will find semi trailers with Michelin tires, and if you read the commercial tire portion of their website they recommend it.

Action: Hey Dave, when I get back to AZ next winter, lets do another Famous Dave's lunch.

[MarkFinATX]

So why does JC put 16" Michelin LT's on new Airstreams? There's no warranty at all? I've been pulling "stuff" behind my cars, SUV's and now a 1/2 pickup for years. Yes, the Pendleton at 28' and roughly 7500 lbs. is the biggest trailer I've hauled and I consider my driving skills to be above average (would love to take a driving/towing course). But I have hit the curb a few times pulling into tight spots i.e. gas stations, parking lots with bunches of islands etc.
So my question is this: how do you determine when to change your trailer tires if you don't tow enough each year to wear the tread down? I've found out that after 10 years a service center won't repair a tire, but I'd never go that long for our AS. So 3 years? 4? I'm towing less than 10K miles a year.

[blkmagikca]

The 16" Michelin LTX tires are far superior to the 15" tires IMHO. They are not speed rated at 65 mph as are the ST's. I've had 2 tread separations plus one blowout on ST's between 2011 & 2014, when I changed over to Michelins. In all the ST "occurrences" I had to foot the bill, including repairs to the wheel wells. This time, wih LTX's, Michelin reimbursed me as a gesture of goodwill (i.e., they do NOT assume liability). Meanwhile, I tow about 15K miles per year. That's why JC is moving to the Michelin tires.

As far as tire life is concerned, most safety-minded people use 5 years from the DOT date code. Michelin warrants 6 years. Before I knew about date codes, I had a blowout on my '94 LY (diesel pusher) and the tire a was an 8-year old inside rear Michelin.

[franklyfrank]

Originally Posted by KJRitchie

If Michelin offered a trailer tire they would clean up. It's an opportunity they are missing.

Kelvin

Accept they would peel apart just like any other ST tire if they were to to build it to the same arcane specifications.
That is the real issue behind ST tire failiure and that is why Michelin will never build one. They don't hold up.

[SeaLevel]

Originally Posted by blkmagikca

The 16" Michelin LTX tires are far superior to the 15" tires IMHO. They are not speed rated at 65 mph as are the ST's.

The new Goodyear Endurance ST tires have a N (87mph) speed rating:

https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires...odel=Endurance