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Old 09-19-2016, 07:20 PM   #29
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However it does have some marketing benefits as some consumers are buying it!

Got any snake oil?

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Old 09-20-2016, 08:53 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by Tireman9 View Post
Sorry but the fact is it is the pressure that carries the load not the tire construction. Tire construction may be "stronger" in some but not all cases simply to allow it to retain a higher pressure and/or to pass a specific regulatory test such as the "plunger" test.
Sorry but your post makes no sense.
The tire is designed for a maximum load range at a given pressure. If we take your statement literally 3,000lbs capacity tire at 80psi could be used to support 6,000lbs at 160psi.
The way ST tires need to be constructed is the very reason they are so susceptible to thread separation. In today's tire world there is no reason to continue to make these type of tires.
You will never see ST tires on the tandem axles of a semi tractor and yet they are subjected to massive side stress. We buy conventional tires for our tractors and ST tires for our trailers because they are simply cheaper. Not only that we could get the casings retreaded. That's where those massive chunks of rubber come from on the roadways. We stopped that practice as soon as we could afford to put the more expensive conventional tires on the trailers as well.
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Old 09-20-2016, 10:50 AM   #31
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This discussion is almost as old as what tow vehicle is best.

I ran the initial Marathons that came with my six sleeper for 4 years. In that time I inflated to the max of 65psi cold for maximum carrying weight and had no issues.

The Marathon issue came up and next tires I bought were Maxxis "D" rated tires, again max pressure 65psi. I went with Maxxis because they have a nylon cap that is suppose to help reduce tread separation. This was a personal choice. I'm sure all the major brands are just as good.

What I learned (from jcanavera) was that as the tires age (regardless of brand), they begin to loose some of their carrying capacity. I wanted every margin of safety and I no longer wanted to swap my tires out every 4 years (regardless of mileage)...

So, last tires I installed in 2012 were Maxxis "E" rated tires. Which is overkill for my 25 foot trailer, but the tires are now 4 years old, the cost difference negligible and even with any degradation with age, I'm very certain I'm very comfortably well within spec given my load. These "E" rated tires have a max pressure of 80, I typically fill them to about 75psi. Have run on these tires for thousands of miles in hot, cold, warm, fully loaded, base weight highway, washboard gravel roads, etc and believe me, if you have anything less than a 28 that isn't a slide out, there are few wrong answers here. I know there are a lot of folks with opinions here, some will say you'll shake your Airstream apart with the stiffer tires, but in the end you do what you feel is best (and hopefully correct) given the info that is provided here "as-is".

I will say however that once you get into slide outs or 30' or larger trailers, tire selection and proper procedures are 5x more important as some of these trailers are nearly 2x the GVWR of my 25er...not that they aren't important for shorter rigs....just the weights get really high, upward of 10,000lbs GVWR or possibly more.

One other thing that I didn't see mentioned here was rim. Some rims are not rated for 80 psi, so placing 80psi tires and inflating them to 80psi on a rim rated for 65psi can be a dangerous combo. Though most are rated to handle 80psi, you should be certain.

As an even added layer of tire and safety, I have had Centramatic balancers on my trailer since nearly new....also have steel air valves and of course, balanced tires (no I didn't balance the hubs).

Your mileage and exp can and will vary.
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Old 09-20-2016, 11:34 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by franklyfrank View Post
Sorry but your post makes no sense.
The tire is designed for a maximum load range at a given pressure. If we take your statement literally 3,000lbs capacity tire at 80psi could be used to support 6,000lbs at 160psi.
The way ST tires need to be constructed is the very reason they are so susceptible to thread separation. In today's tire world there is no reason to continue to make these type of tires.
You will never see ST tires on the tandem axles of a semi tractor and yet they are subjected to massive side stress. We buy conventional tires for our tractors and ST tires for our trailers because they are simply cheaper. Not only that we could get the casings retreaded. That's where those massive chunks of rubber come from on the roadways. We stopped that practice as soon as we could afford to put the more expensive conventional tires on the trailers as well.
Not sure how you arrived at the extrapolation of doubling the pressure.

All tires have a specified pressure for a max load capacity. The confusion comes about with the fact that some tires say "Max" pressure, some say "cold" pressure and some just say "pressure".

The problem is that if tires said "max pressure" some folks would be bleeding off the hot air pressure which is almost certainly a quick way to end up with a failed tire.


I stand by my statement that it is the air pressure that carries the load. Otherwise why would the entire worldwide tire industry publish load / inflation tables?

The "container" for that air pressure is the tire and there are tests the container must pass. Most tires fail the running drum tests with heat related symptoms. Increased thickness of rubber or body or belt cords almost always results in increased heat generation and/or more heat retention so for most tires thinner is better.
One of the "features" of ST type tires that some claim allows them to run cooler is less tread depth.

Side loading stresses are a separate item. trailer suspension design results in significant increased "Interply Shear" forces in trailer application. These forces were not known in the 1970's when ST standards were written.

I do agree that St type tires need to have their testing requirements updated and significantly changed. This might even mean that most applications go away leaving LT type tires but the RV industry has fought any improvement in tire quality or requirements so it is not likely to happen.
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Old 09-21-2016, 08:43 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by franklyfrank View Post
Sorry but your post makes no sense.
The tire is designed for a maximum load range at a given pressure. If we take your statement literally 3,000lbs capacity tire at 80psi could be used to support 6,000lbs at 160psi.
The way ST tires need to be constructed is the very reason they are so susceptible to thread separation. In today's tire world there is no reason to continue to make these type of tires.
You will never see ST tires on the tandem axles of a semi tractor and yet they are subjected to massive side stress. We buy conventional tires for our tractors and ST tires for our trailers because they are simply cheaper. Not only that we could get the casings retreaded. That's where those massive chunks of rubber come from on the roadways. We stopped that practice as soon as we could afford to put the more expensive conventional tires on the trailers as well.
Just some insight into the way tires are constructed.

The strength of the body plies is proportional to the inflation pressure. So a Load Range E tire (80 psi) is about 23% stronger than a Load Range D (65 psi). What typically happens is the ply cords either have more ends per inch, or they are a larger (and therefore stronger) cord. In some cases an addition ply is needed to get the strength, but in the range of LT and ST tire sizes, that rarely occurs.

A side note: As the size goes up - like from an LT215/85R16 to an LT235/65R16 - the strength of the body plies must go up as well to compensate for the increased perimeter trying to hold the air inside without bursting.

Also, the load carrying capacity is NOT directly proportional to the inflation pressure. If you plot a load curve, you will find it is more or less a straight line, but it does NOT go through the origin (Zero,Zero!). So doubling the pressure does not double the load carrying capacity.

I explore some of this here: http://barrystiretech.com/loadtables.html
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Old 09-21-2016, 09:01 AM   #34
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So in reading the last posts of Tireman and Capri, is it correct that if I have LR-E tires (80 PSI max inflation), I can elect to inflate them to 65 PSI and they essentially become LR-D tires in terms of load carrying ability? Said another way, if LR-D is all I need from a weight carrying standpoint, but I have LR-E tires installed, will inflating them to 65 PSI inflation be "safe"?

The obvious example is replacing LRD GYM's with LRE Maxxis 8008's.
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Old 09-21-2016, 09:29 AM   #35
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Good information, in my experience, you get what you pay for,there are no bargains out there and I like michelins......
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Old 09-21-2016, 09:30 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silvertwinkie View Post
This discussion is almost as old as what tow vehicle is best.

I ran the initial Marathons that came with my six sleeper for 4 years. In that time I inflated to the max of 65psi cold for maximum carrying weight and had no issues.

The Marathon issue came up and next tires I bought were Maxxis "D" rated tires, again max pressure 65psi. I went with Maxxis because they have a nylon cap that is suppose to help reduce tread separation. This was a personal choice. I'm sure all the major brands are just as good.

What I learned (from jcanavera) was that as the tires age (regardless of brand), they begin to loose some of their carrying capacity. I wanted every margin of safety and I no longer wanted to swap my tires out every 4 years (regardless of mileage)...

So, last tires I installed in 2012 were Maxxis "E" rated tires. Which is overkill for my 25 foot trailer, but the tires are now 4 years old, the cost difference negligible and even with any degradation with age, I'm very certain I'm very comfortably well within spec given my load. These "E" rated tires have a max pressure of 80, I typically fill them to about 75psi. Have run on these tires for thousands of miles in hot, cold, warm, fully loaded, base weight highway, washboard gravel roads, etc and believe me, if you have anything less than a 28 that isn't a slide out, there are few wrong answers here. I know there are a lot of folks with opinions here, some will say you'll shake your Airstream apart with the stiffer tires, but in the end you do what you feel is best (and hopefully correct) given the info that is provided here "as-is".

I will say however that once you get into slide outs or 30' or larger trailers, tire selection and proper procedures are 5x more important as some of these trailers are nearly 2x the GVWR of my 25er...not that they aren't important for shorter rigs....just the weights get really high, upward of 10,000lbs GVWR or possibly more.

One other thing that I didn't see mentioned here was rim. Some rims are not rated for 80 psi, so placing 80psi tires and inflating them to 80psi on a rim rated for 65psi can be a dangerous combo. Though most are rated to handle 80psi, you should be certain.

As an even added layer of tire and safety, I have had Centramatic balancers on my trailer since nearly new....also have steel air valves and of course, balanced tires (no I didn't balance the hubs).

Your mileage and exp can and will vary.
As to tire reliability. I have a 1998 Explorer beater that is parked outside on my driveway in Florida 24/7/365. It doesn't move for five months and It has a set of Michelins on it that are 12 years old. One of them had to be patched due to a flat repair (picked up a nail) Other than that tire needing 3psi added none of the other tires need air added. One side of the car is exposed to direct sun until 2m and I never bother covering the tires. That is why I have Michelin tires an all our 5 vehicles and the Airstream.
In contrast the GYM the trailer came with had to have Air added almost on the daily bases when on the road and of course no way could I move the trailer after it set a few weeks without adding air. In spite all of that meticulous maintenance I had a massive thread separation on one and two others were ready to go.
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Old 09-21-2016, 09:34 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by franklyfrank View Post
As to tire reliability. I have a 1998 Explorer beater that is parked outside on my driveway in Florida 24/7/365. It doesn't move for five months and It has a set of Michelins on it that are 12 years old. One of them had to be patched due to a flat repair (picked up a nail) Other than that tire needing 3psi added none of the other tires need air added. One side of the car is exposed to direct sun until 2m and I never bother covering the tires. That is why I have Michelin tires an all our 5 vehicles and the Airstream.
In contrast the GYM the trailer came with had to have Air added almost on the daily bases when on the road and of course no way could I move the trailer after it set a few weeks without adding air. In spite all of that meticulous maintenance I had a massive thread separation on one and two others were ready to go.
I absolutely can't fathom that in view of all the empirical evidence why anyone would want to run ST tires on their Airstreams when there are better and safer alternatives available.
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Old 09-21-2016, 11:20 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by franklyfrank View Post
I absolutely can't fathom that in view of all the empirical evidence why anyone would want to run ST tires on their Airstreams when there are better and safer alternatives available.
Several reasons -
They came with the trailer
The trailer needed tires and the tire dealer installed them
They are round black and hold air - what more is needed from a tire?
Never had an issue in the past why change now?

For some people an ST tire (Or any tire that has been on their trailer and they don't focus on tires they focus on camping) has never been an issue, they just keep air in the tire and go camping.

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Old 09-21-2016, 01:08 PM   #39
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So in reading the last posts of Tireman and Capri, is it correct that if I have LR-E tires (80 PSI max inflation), I can elect to inflate them to 65 PSI and they essentially become LR-D tires in terms of load carrying ability? Said another way, if LR-D is all I need from a weight carrying standpoint, but I have LR-E tires installed, will inflating them to 65 PSI inflation be "safe"?

The obvious example is replacing LRD GYM's with LRE Maxxis 8008's.

Yes you are essentially correct but there might be some slight disadvantages. Since I don't have a copy of the actual tire construction specification I can only identify some items that might impact the situation.

Tread depth MIGHT be deeper so the fuel economy might be worse
Sidewall MIGHT be thicker so worse fuel economy and more heat
Belts MIGHT MIGHT be thicker so worse fuel economy and more heat

RE Capri comments. He is correct in most cases BUT there are some exceptions and that is why I have to say MIGHT as it is possible to go from LR-D to LR-E and only need a change in the bead wire to pass a laboratory burst test (200 to 300 psi range). I don't know if all tire companies pay attention to such safety details but I know I was required too.

One thing you can do is to run higher than LR-D inflation and get a bit better fuel economy.
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Old 09-22-2016, 08:47 AM   #40
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I absolutely can't fathom that in view of all the empirical evidence why anyone would want to run ST tires on their Airstreams when there are better and safer alternatives available.
Frank,

One of the problem is that there simply aren't tires available in the appropriate 14" and 15" sizes to make the kind of swap you are suggesting. The problem is simply more complex than you are stating.
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