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Old 09-08-2016, 08:21 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Boxite View Post
Well, Larry... You're wrong.
The atmosphere is not 70% Nitrogen. It's 78% Nitrogen. :

First of all, it's virtually impossible for the tire company to give you a 100% nitrogen-fill. This is because the tire starts out with ordinary atmosphere within it before they fill it with nitrogen.... It's NOT pure nitrogen in your tire.
IF anyone thinks about this... if you start out with ordinary compressed air (78% N)... and if the tire later has a 5 psi drop and needs "topping off" with additional ordinary compressed air.... then you now have MORE THAN 90% Nitrogen!
In fact, assuming a 5 psi loss of air each time they're checked, with only 5 such checking/top-offs, the tire has in excess of 98% pure nitrogen.

Why anyone would pay for this is beyond me.




(The major reason to use nitrogen is to eliminate moisture. Compressed air delivered thru a paint-gun de-humidifier pretty much does that anyway. As for the secondary reason ...(oxygen deteriorates tires and has a higher leak-rate)... your re-filling purifies the content by replacing any leaked-out oxygen with 78% Nitrogen in the refill.... and besides that, you will wear those tires out long before the oxygen inside them causes any measureable harm. In addition.. what will you do to avoid the 19% atmospheric oxygen on the outside of the tire?

Save your money for the next set of tires.

Wow! Thanks for the 8% correction! I'm impressed, apparently you have a lot more insight than I....

Larry C
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Old 09-08-2016, 08:36 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Boxite View Post

....what will you do to avoid the 19% atmospheric oxygen on the outside of the tire?

I'm confused...if 78% of the atmosphere is nitrogen, what's the other "19%"? 😜
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Old 09-09-2016, 05:45 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by Larry C View Post
I would think that the main reason to go to load range E tires would for the increased weight capacity. In order to realize that increase capacity the maximum recommended pressure is 80 psi for load range E tires.

If you inflate to 65, you might have well stayed with your GYMs and inflated them to 65 psi..

Some people deliberately under inflate by a few pounds to "compensate" for increase tire pressure due to heat build up.....all they are doing is starting out with an under inflated tire, which will be more prone to failure because there will be more heat build up.

Some people drink the Kool Aid about nitrogen instead of compressed air....the air we breath is 70% nitrogen, you've got to be kidding me if you think that additional 30% nitrogen is going to make a difference? The theory is that nitrogen doesn't expand as quickly as compressed air in high temps......maybe so, maybe not......at any rate it's a waste of dollars.

People should stop trying to read more into this problem than exists....

For whatever it's worth..

Larry C
Thank You for the chemistry lesson. It was a surprise to me and you make a valid point.
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Old 09-10-2016, 09:58 AM   #18
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Maxxis needs bigger dealer network. In Myrtle Beach...separated GYM caught in time...thought about Maxxis but couldn't find them. Installing a couple of Mastertrack 225 15 E tires. After vacation I can make a better plan for the 03 Classic.
I'm just happy I caught the problem. I give my tires a good look quite often. My experience has shown this can save a lot of sadness.
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Old 09-10-2016, 11:05 AM   #19
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Do you know that the commercial airliners you fly on are required by the US FAA to service their tires with nitrogen?
"They use nitrogen because nitrogen gas is MOSTLY inert ,meaning that it requires more energy to react with other substances. this is important because at elevated temperatures, oxygen react with rubber"
Also nitrogen has larger molecules and will not leak out through the rubber as fast so it hold it pressure longer.
Google why service tires with nitrogen.
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Old 09-10-2016, 02:48 PM   #20
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Old 09-13-2016, 05:29 PM   #21
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Most if not all regular commercial jet aircraft will see a service cycles daily that any Airstream (or any trailer) will never see, EVER! Ever seen a trailer tire hit the pavement at 150 miles an hour?

My guess is the inert gas has another benefit in commercial aircraft. It doesn't burn! Which is important with 300 soles on a tarmac after an event. And that would be another event a trailer will never see. Even a hundred humans won't fit in a 34 footer.

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Old 09-13-2016, 06:34 PM   #22
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Even a hundred humans won't fit in a 34 footer.

That's only 3.3 people per foot, definitely doable!
Anybody got a 34' we can try it in. Everyone has to dress like clowns! Wait, maybe not, those big shoes will probably kil it!

I subtracted 3' for a frame and 1' for bumper.
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Old 09-13-2016, 07:24 PM   #23
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Nice!

I assume you would pass out the Old Spice for that event?

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Old 09-19-2016, 04:41 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by Boxite View Post
ST tires have a lousy reputation with many because they have a failure-rate that is caused by underinflation.
ST tires carry heavier loads vs tire-size because they have heavier-gauge steel wire beads and belts and heavier fabric cords used in construction. If those are not supported by the tire's rated pressure they will flex excessively, build heat, and fail. Then the owner bad-mouths the ST tires because they didn't go as far as their vehicle tires which are built for pressures which allow sidewall flex for ride-comfort.

Run ST tires at their rated sidewall-placarded pressures....not according to commonly misunderstood loading charts intended for passenger vehicles.
Sorry but the fact is it is the pressure that carries the load not the tire construction. Tire construction may be "stronger" in some but not all cases simply to allow it to retain a higher pressure and/or to pass a specific regulatory test such as the "plunger" test.
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Old 09-19-2016, 04:47 PM   #25
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I've just upgraded my GYM's to Maxxis M8008 ST225/LR15 load range E tires on our 25' Safari. They have a maximum pressure of 80lbs. I am inclined to run them at the factory recommended 65 lbs. Does anyone think they will be under inflated at 65lbs?
Tires can be under-inflated for a variety of reasons.
One would be you are placing more load on the tire than what it is rated for at the pressure have inflated it to
One might be you are running faster that it is rated for for the pressure & load you are running
One would be you are using a tire in trailer application and by running less than the sidewall inflation number you are allowing the Interply Shear to be higher than desirable and this can result in shorter tire life and even belt/tread separations.

The factory recommendation is probably just enough to meet the requirement that tires must support no less than the axle rating. There is nothing preventing an RV company from providing tires and inflation recommendations that result in higher load capacity other than the desire of the RV company to get by with the lowest cost components needed to meet regulations.
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Old 09-19-2016, 04:56 PM   #26
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I posted to a thread A couple months ago, can't remember, I'm allowed I just got my Medicare card, that touched on this . I contacted Maxxis asking this same question, and the reply was in so many words, buy the tire rated for your rig, any rating above and beyond ,because of excess tire weight , would cause extra heat and could lead to tire failure. I would think running lower pressure than recommended shouldn't be a good idea. But check out Maxxis website....ask the pros.....they got back to me in 24 hrs!
Good luck, drive safe.
Rick
By the by, I have 25 ft FC.....with Maxxis 8008 d rated. Just completed coast to coast ,out and back, absolutely no problems with Maxxis
While it is sometimes theoretically possible for a higher Load Range tire to run hotter when at the same load & inflation as a lower Load Range tire this will not always be true. I know this based on some tires I personally was responsible for. ( LR-D vs LR-E )
Don't forget that when you are talking to a person in "Customer Service" you are seldom talking with an actual tire design engineer but more likely some person hired for that job who has been given a few days/weeks OJT and who has a cursory understanding of engineering principles but has never had the responsibility of developing and getting approval for a tire design.
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Old 09-19-2016, 05:39 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by Tireman9 View Post
Sorry but the fact is it is the pressure that carries the load not the tire construction. Tire construction may be "stronger" in some but not all cases simply to allow it to retain a higher pressure and/or to pass a specific regulatory test such as the "plunger" test.
Amen brother. You got it right.
Hope you did not work for Firestone tire.
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Old 09-19-2016, 06:14 PM   #28
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Do you know that the commercial airliners you fly on are required by the US FAA to service their tires with nitrogen?
"They use nitrogen because nitrogen gas is MOSTLY inert ,meaning that it requires more energy to react with other substances. this is important because at elevated temperatures, oxygen react with rubber"
Also nitrogen has larger molecules and will not leak out through the rubber as fast so it hold it pressure longer.
Google why service tires with nitrogen.
The aircraft and NASCAR comparison is a false equivalence. One major reason for aircraft to use N2 is its almost 100% dry. Another is the much higher pressure used (200 to 300 psi ) Huge temperature swings (+100 to -40F to 150F) Yes the lower flammability is part of the issue but this is based on the extreme heat generated by brakes when stopping.
NASCAR and other race car applications are concerned about consistent handling response and again the dry gas is more important given how close the tires get to having simple heat failures due to speed and abrasion. I learned this when being the tire engineer for Andretti or Unser in Indy-car events.

O2 size vs N2 size doesn't really apply when you are talking effusion for what is really happening is chemical reaction. I suggest you study THIS paper to have a better understanding. Size of the atom isn't what we need to look at but size and dimension of the molecule is only different by 0.00000000003 meters

Much of what is claimed as a benefit for N2 is based on unsaid assumptions such as you will only check air once a year or once every 2 years. etc.
The claim of better heat transfer is measurable but IMO the difference is meaningless with N2 and air both rated at 24 milliwatts per meter kelvin as the difference is at the 5% difference level.

Claims of better fuel economy are in opposition of the known effects of higher pressure delivering better mpg while at the same time N2 proponents are claiming less pressure increase.
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