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Old 12-08-2015, 11:13 PM   #99
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The CanAm recommendation for the Michelin LTX (P) 235/75R15 XL tires when mounted on our 2013 25FB International Serenity stock wheels was 44 psi. I am using the same pressure with the identical tires mounted on our 2015 23D International Serenity using the SenDel T03-56545T wheels on the stock 14" brake drums, The 23D has a 1,300 pound lower GVW than the 25FB.
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Old 12-09-2015, 04:31 PM   #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocinante View Post
Stop, do not pass go, do not collect $200. Please back up and read the thread again.
Andrew is talking about different tires, not the GYM ST tires that have a big "65" on the sidewall.
Sorry, the thread was about GYMs and Andrew is referencing Michelins, I was just reading into it and shouldn't have.

My GYMs don't have a 65 on the side but the trailer warning (AS and boat trailer) still says to inflate to 50 lbs. as does the owner's manual. 45 seems really low but they're Michelins so I'm sure they'll be OK.
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Old 12-09-2015, 05:07 PM   #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocinante View Post
Stop, do not pass go, do not collect $200. Please back up and read the thread again.
Andrew is talking about different tires, not the GYM ST tires that have a big "65" on the sidewall.
Not true, Andrew's post #91 specifically states he is towing with Marathons at 45 PSI

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Originally Posted by Andrew T View Post
I am just on trip home from California. Due to a last minute trailer change I am running on Marathons for the first time in many years. I am only towing a 28' this trip and so I am running the Marathons relatively soft at 45 PSI. Still it is amazing how much more things move around in the trailer with them.

So far no flats though, oh darn I wish I had not said that.

Andrew T
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Old 12-09-2015, 05:22 PM   #102
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Originally Posted by PKI View Post
Hope that by blaming the astronomers for this, you don't think the phase of the moon is involved.

The folks to blame are whoever it is that specifies nice big white on black lettering for the tire name and the little itty bitty black on black lettering/code for the load rating, tire pressure, mfg location, and date of mfg info.

Thanks or all the tech supplied. It does help make a bit of sense out of all the noise.

Just remember that if I pass you at 75, I'm only using about 20% of the 30% safety margin the engineer should have built into the design. And if I'm blocking your lane at 55, then maybe there is another safety factor in play. Thanks for your consideration. Pat
Sorry but I have no idea where you came up with the 30% margin. Tires are not a homogeneous material like molded metal or even plastics. They are a construct and as such their performance depends on a variety of factors. Some are the variability of the raw material, some are the variability of the manufacturing process and of course the biggest variable is the operating conditions.
Regulations require that all tires must meet a set of minimum performance criteria. Companies know the variability of their process and the raw material they purchase and to keep costs down (remember you the customer are demanding low cost) they will design a tire such that if properly inflated and loaded and not run above its stated performance limits will meet the regulations.
If you want a tire that performs better then you should expect to pay more for the more expensive materials etc.
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Old 12-09-2015, 07:13 PM   #103
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Originally Posted by Andrew T View Post
As a new owner of a 2016 27' FC FB, I read the story here, as well as elsewhere, on the GYM.

As we don't quite have spare $ to replace brand new wheels and tires, we decided to air up to 65 psi, restrict speed to 65 mph, cover the tires in storage, treat the sidewalls with 303, and obtain a TST tpms. Oh, and practice changing a tire on the rig.

I sure hope I don't come back to this thread and post a blow out story. Knock on wood.

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Hi Rich

For your 27' going to 15" Michelins P235/75R x 15" XL tires is a less expensive and better choice than going to 16's. The 15's are equivalent of a load range "C" tire so they ride much smoother than the Load Range "D" 16" tires. On the 27 you can tow with these at 45 PSI instead of the 65 you are running now. This is much friendlier to the Airstream. We have put on a couple of thousand of these now, absolutely no issue with them.


Andrew T
Andy - For the avoidance of doubt as they say, you are talking about this tire?

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires....TR5LTXMS2OWLXL
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Old 12-09-2015, 08:14 PM   #104
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Originally Posted by Tireman9 View Post
Sorry but I have no idea where you came up with the 30% margin. -- snip -- (remember you the customer are demanding low cost) -- snip -- If you want a tire that performs better then you should expect to pay more for the more expensive materials etc.
The safety factor came from some reasonable thought and with tongue planted firmly in cheek. As to the demand for low cost, not so. An AS is not a low rent acquisition.

Thanks for clarifying the design parameters for tires. Pat
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Old 12-09-2015, 08:15 PM   #105
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Good info. Thanks


Sent from my iPhone using Airstream Forums silver bp
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Old 12-09-2015, 08:24 PM   #106
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The Airstream stock 14" GYM ST215/75R14C tire installed on the 23D and 23FB are load rated 1,870 pounds and does have a side wall maximum pressure of 50psi. The Airstream stock 15" GYM ST225/75R15D is rated 2,540 pounds @ 65 psi and is used on most trailers over 25' and the single axle trailers. The 27FB Eddie Bauer and the 2015 and later 31' Classics are shipping with 16" Michelin LT225/75R16/E LTX M/S2 tires rated 2,680 pounds @ 80 psi.

We installed the 15" Michelin LTX (P) 235/75R15 XL tires on the Airstream stock 15" aluminum wheels on the 2013 25FB International Serenity. We also installed these same tires on a 15" SenDel T03-56545T wheel that is built to fit the attachments of the stock 14" brake drums on the 23D. We ran the suggested 44 psi in the Michelin tires in both applications.

For the lighter 23D and 23FB application (GVW of 6,000 pounds versus the 7,300 pound GVW of the 25' models) the derated capacity of 1,985 pounds (down from the sidewall rating of 2,183 pounds at 50 psi) is more than adequate capacity. CanAm installs this tire on the tri-axle 34' trailers (GVW of 11,500 pounds) with great success since that model is usually significantly lighter than the implied GVW on the axles.
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Old 12-09-2015, 10:58 PM   #107
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My understanding of the strength of the ST design is stronger sidewall and stiffer overall design. Combined with high pressure they resist scrubbing inherent in dual axle and possible rim de-attachment due to the torque. Has anyone had tires fall off the wheels due to thin or too flexible sidewalls in sharp turns?
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Old 12-10-2015, 12:57 AM   #108
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No worries, Rich, thanks!

There have been several threads discussing the Michelin P235/75R x 15" XL tires. I was kinda wondering whether they would safely carry our 27FB. Andrew T's experience putting a couple thousand of them on Airstreams our size with no issues provides a bit of confidence.
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Old 12-10-2015, 04:51 AM   #109
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Originally Posted by Rocinante View Post
No worries, Rich, thanks!

There have been several threads discussing the Michelin P235/75R x 15" XL tires. I was kinda wondering whether they would safely carry our 27FB. Andrew T's experience putting a couple thousand of them on Airstreams our size with no issues provides a bit of confidence.

If it helps any, we have them on our 27FB Flying Cloud which comes in at just about 6000# on the scales. De-rated 10% from their sidewall stamped capacity, the 4 tires can carry over 7900# when filled to their 50 PSI max which is where we keep them - so we have a 24% "cushion". Just finished our 3rd year with them including a host of shorter trips and a few multi-thousand mile trips too.
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Old 12-10-2015, 06:29 AM   #110
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Originally Posted by kscherzi View Post
......... Has anyone had tires fall off the wheels due to thin or too flexible sidewalls in sharp turns?

Sorry, but tires do not fail in that way.

First, tires don't "fall" off wheels - they get dislodged which is a physical action.

But I assume you meant that metaphorically, and not literally.

Second, tires generally fail as a result of fatigue - the accumulation of damage due to stress over time. Fatigue failures generally do not occur when the key event happens - the failure occurs further down the road.

I like to use the analogy of emptying a bucket of water: when the bucket is empty, the tire fails.

If you use a teaspoon to empty the bucket, it takes a long time, but if you use a cup, much much quicker. But if you used a cup, and switched later to a teaspoon, it wasn't the teaspoon that caused the failure, even though that was what was being used when the tire failed.

Ergo, the scrubbing issue will generally not cause an immediate failure, but that action uses up the available resistance to fatigue - to the point where the normal levels of stress will result in a failure at a later time.
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Old 12-10-2015, 09:09 AM   #111
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The post above reflects the consensus of replacing tires based upon both time on the rim as well as mileage reflected in the tread wear. If the unit is stored in the sun without tire covers, that too is a factor in tire degradation.

When buying new tires, inspect the date of manufacture code (WWYY where W = week and Y = year) before they are installed and do NOT accept stale tires.
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Old 12-10-2015, 10:57 AM   #112
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New 15" 109T Michelin tire?

Hey, I just went out looking on the InterWebs for Michelin tire info and came across a new-to-me model, the Michelin Defender M/S 235/75R15 109T XL. I started a thread here so we can chat about it. Looks promising.

If you're already using this tire, please chime in. General thoughts also welcome, as always.
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