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Old 12-24-2015, 12:49 PM   #169
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Originally Posted by switz View Post
Comparing the incremental cost between the 15" GoodYear ST225/75R15D tire and the 15" Michelin LTX (P) 235/75R15 XL tire to the typical insurance deductible when there is a tire failure that tears the side out of the Airstream makes a convincing argument to consider the Michelin tires.

I have had GYM tire failures on my tandem motorcycle trailer and sure would not want that experience with an Airstream. Thus, we have Michelin tires on all vehicles including the Airstreams. Great piece of mind for me.


How are you considering a tire with 2,540# capability equivalent with a tire that would be rated to carry 1,918# max?

If the GAWR is even 1# above 3,837# Federal Regulations do not allow the identified GY tire to be used by the RV company.
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Old 12-24-2015, 02:37 PM   #170
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Originally Posted by Tireman9 View Post
High speed, in itself is not the major problem. Heat either from long exposure to direct sunlight or extended high speed that generates excess heat, coupled with the Interply Shear force on the belts due to high loading ( less than 15% margin on max load0

And did GY cover you under their warranty?
And did you file a complaint with NHTSA? No complaints means no investigation. which means no possible recall and no improvement in tire quality.


As the saying goes "We have met then enemy and it is us?



But the condition as seen in the OP post #1 is not a belt separation or a "blowout"

No. I did not file a claim. I don't want their crumby tires.
No. I did not file a claim. What's the point? I got 2 years, 10 months, and possibly 30,000 miles out of them. No ST tire will do much more than that.
I made a conscious decision (for the better I think) to get 16" wheels and LT tires- no speed limit worries- no load limit worries- will last 5 years or more-
No worries!
I still tow at 65 mph max for fuel economy and safety margin- increased following distance and decreased stopping distance-
I did what I wanted to- what I thought was the right thing and the best thing-
Already had a bad taste in my mouth for Good Year tires dating back to the 80's and Viva tires that did not last as long as the should have and had a weird tread wear pattern although they were properly inflated, rotated, balanced- I did the best I could and the tires were still bad- I did my part- I did my due diligence-
Why am I defending myself?
I'm grown-
I pay my own bills-
Freedom!


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Old 12-24-2015, 04:16 PM   #171
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"How are you considering a tire with 2,540# capability equivalent with a tire that would be rated to carry 1,918# max?"

They are not "equivalent" and the tires have to have a higher rating than the max axle rating. We understand that.

But I also think that while one says 2540 and the other must be used at 1983 or less it is not a direct comparison because the ratings are arrived at by different tests. I know that with my 3200 lb axle rating I would rather have the 1983 at 50 pse from the XL tire than the 2540 at 65 from the ST tire. Let me ask, would the XL tire pass the test at a higher rating than 1983 if it was tested exactly like the ST tire? My assumption is that it would. Would the ST tire pass the same test as the XL tire does and be rated at 1983 or higher? I do not think so.
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Old 12-24-2015, 06:31 PM   #172
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Not considering them equivalent-
Considering the LT tire superior-


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Old 12-26-2015, 10:22 AM   #173
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So the 25' to 28' Airstream trailers share two 3,800 pound axle rated axles. The 23' models use two 3,000 pound rated axles. The 16' Bambi has a 3,500 pound rated axle. Theses axle specifications are from the 2016 Bambi, Flying Cloud and International models parts list.

Thus two 15" Michelin LTX (P) 235/75R15 XL sidewall rated 2,183 pounds @ 50 psi and are derated to 1,985 pounds each exceeds the axle ratings for the most popular models of Airstream. The two 23' models that come with 14" GYM ST215/75R14C tires rated 1,870 pounds @ 50 psi can support these 15" Michelins on SenDel T03-56545T wheels. I installed the 15" tire and wheel conversion on our 23D.

The 22' Bambi has a single 4,500 pound rated axle, the 19' models have a single 4,300 pound rated axle, the 20' Flying Cloud has a 5,000 pound rated axle, the 30' Flying Cloud and International models have two 4,500 pound axles and the 31' Classics have two 5,000 pound rated axles. The 16" Michelin LT225/75R16/E LTX M/S2 is rated 2,680 pounds @ 80 psi and thus has the necessary load capacity for these longer twin axle or heavier single axle trailers.

Before decrying the 170 pound cushion of the 15" Michelin tires on a 3,800 pound axle, Airstream put the 15" GYM ST225/75R15D rated 2,540 pounds @ 65 psi tires on the 5,000 pound rated axles of the Classic and the 20' Flying Cloud with only a 80 pound cushion.

The Dodge factory recommended tire pressure for the factory installed 16" Michelin LT265/70R17E tires that are rated 3,195 pounds at 80 psi equals the rear axle rating on my 2012 Dodge am 2500HD Cummins and is 20 pounds over the front axle rating per the Michelin tire pressure vs load capacity table. We run both front and rear tires at 80 psi when towing.

Thus, the user does have a viable choice to use a Michelin tire of the proper size if the the service history of the Goodyear ST tires is worrisome.
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Old 12-26-2015, 10:48 AM   #174
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If my 225/75/15 marathon trailer tires are good for 2540 lbs times 4 is equal to a gross of 10160, last time it was weighed fully loaded we were at 8800 lbs and with 20000 miles with 1/2 tread they did good....
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Old 12-27-2015, 07:28 AM   #175
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If my 225/75/15 marathon trailer tires are good for 2540 lbs times 4 is equal to a gross of 10160, last time it was weighed fully loaded we were at 8800 lbs and with 20000 miles with 1/2 tread they did good....

Just a couple of thoughts:


1) It would be highly unusual if all 4 tires on a travel trailer carried the same load. There is front to rear and side to side variation. The conservative guy in me says the worst case is 115% of the average.


2) ST tires are speed restricted to 65 mph. In order to operate at 85 mph (the value I think should be used by trailer manufacturers), the load table values would need to be reduced by 20%.


3) My experience says that tires should not be operated at more than 85% of their rated load (which includes those 2 things above).


So I think the calculation is much more complex.
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Old 12-27-2015, 09:58 AM   #176
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The 6 Commodore ST225/75-R15 tires we put on our Avion last Spring are N113's (87 MPH). I'll be watching them, but so far, so good.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CapriRacer View Post
Just a couple of thoughts:

1) It would be highly unusual if all 4 tires on a travel trailer carried the same load. There is front to rear and side to side variation. The conservative guy in me says the worst case is 115% of the average.


2) ST tires are speed restricted to 65 mph. In order to operate at 85 mph (the value I think should be used by trailer manufacturers), the load table values would need to be reduced by 20%.


3) My experience says that tires should not be operated at more than 85% of their rated load (which includes those 2 things above).


So I think the calculation is much more complex.
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Old 12-27-2015, 11:07 AM   #177
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The 6 Commodore ST225/75-R15 tires we put on our Avion last Spring are N113's (87 MPH). I'll be watching them, but so far, so good.

While I feel that tires with a Service Description i.e. Speed Symbol and Load Index are probably a bit more robust than tires without a Service Description, I would still limit the max operating speed to 75 unless you can find something in writing from the tire mfg indicating otherwise. IMO there is a good possibility that some off-shore tire companies that make "container tires" simply ran a tire on the drum test and used the results of that test as the basis for marking the tire. Unlike other specifications and regulations the Speed Symbol was not a regulatory item but just a test established by Society of Automotive Engineers so unless the regs. have been changed there is no requirement for 100% of tires being made to be capable of passing that test.

In the US market the Speed rating is really more of a handling rating and certainly does not mean a tire can run that speed for full tread wear life. For some of the off-shore companies that have little real experience in the US market and with no technical center located in the US, I think they will soon discover that anything above an L (75) may result in higher warranty complaints.

Of course based on the majority of responses I get when I ask if people, that have had tire failures, if they have bothered to file a complaint with NHTSA or file a warranty complaint with the tire company I am not holding my breath till warranty costs increase.
If we, the RV community can't be bothered to make the minimal effort it takes to file such complaints then IMO we are stuck with lower quality tires. Unless and until the bottom line of a tire company or RV company is hurt with warranty costs or the cost of a recall there is no incentive to improve the real quality of the tires on the market.
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Old 12-27-2015, 11:20 AM   #178
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I should have added to post 174, I only drive 62-63 mph and mostly 2 lane skinny roads, you don't see much from the interstates, and the trailer and pickup will last longer, I have been in a hurry all my life driving the big trucks, I don't have to do it anymore...
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Old 12-27-2015, 12:32 PM   #179
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The 6 Commodore ST225/75-R15 tires we put on our Avion last Spring are N113's (87 MPH). I'll be watching them, but so far, so good.

I'll also add that I drive very conservatively based on the number of travel trailers/5w's that pass us. We stick to 60 mph, inch up to 65-70 approaching a steep hill.
For me, the N113 rating is hopefully just more insurance.


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Old 12-28-2015, 07:14 AM   #180
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Another thing I do is rotate and balance the as tires at least once a year, that helps keep everything even...
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Old 12-28-2015, 10:19 AM   #181
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Just a couple of thoughts:

1) It would be highly unusual if all 4 tires on a travel trailer carried the same load. There is front to rear and side to side variation. The conservative guy in me says the worst case is 115% of the average.
Reasonable IMO

2) ST tires are speed restricted to 65 mph. In order to operate at 85 mph (the value I think should be used by trailer manufacturers), the load table values would need to be reduced by 20%.
I would limit to 75 mph as I have seen no data to support operation in tt usage at any speed higher than 75, but would no oppose a reduction in static loading margin to 15% to 20% below maximum

3) My experience says that tires should not be operated at more than 85% of their rated load (which includes those 2 things above).
YUP

So I think the calculation is much more complex.
In addition to the above I would change the DOT requirements for ST tires to be the same test procedures as 571.139 which was developed in 2001-2003 rather than continue to use section 571.109 which is over 60 years old and does not reflect today's highway speed or available tire technology.
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Old 12-29-2015, 08:49 AM   #182
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Per my scales weighing the individual Classic tires:

_______Street____Curb
Front.....2034........2042

Rear......1921........2062

Weight drop on street side rear is after replacing the stock six gallon water heater with a lighter weight instant on Truma AquaGo comfort unit and no stored water.

We installed the 16" Michelins and 16" SenDel wheels as soon as the trailer came off the dealer lot. The 2,680 load pound rating of the Michelin tire provides a greater safety margin than the GYM ST tire with a 2,540 rating with the more important information of a better service history with the Michelin tires.

The Eddie Bauer trailers had the Michelin/SenDel option for several years before the more wide spread after market adoption of this combination on other models. Now the factory installs this combination as standard on the 2015 and later Classics that have a 10,000 pound GVW with a pair of 5,000 pound rated axles.

As I said more than two years ago in late 2013, installation of the same Michelin LT225/75R16/E LTX M/S2 ( P/N 05681) tires and SenDel T03-66655T wheels that the factory has on display for sale at the service center at Jackson Center provided implicit approval of this combination in terms of any potential warranty issues in the suspension system.
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